Bike fit surprise
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Bike fit surprise
Postby Lots of steel bikes » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:36 pm
- winstonw
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby winstonw » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:51 pm
Your back may be flexing less in this position.
Things that limit back angle are lumbar disc irritation (and accompanying neurological symptoms like sciatica) or facet jt stiffness, thoracic facet jt stiffness, neck shoulder stiffness, excessive visceral fat, large thighs, compromised diaphramatic breathing, muscle imbalance or disturbance (iliopsoas, gluts, hams, posterior shoulder girdle)
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby ironhanglider » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:54 pm
I've found the same. I suspect that it is to do with the angle of the spine moving your shoulders forward. Regardless, if it works it is good (and you can brag at the coffee shop how much more 'pro' your saddle to bar height difference is making you more aero and involving your glutes better blah blah blah)Lots of steel bikes wrote:I was feeling too stretched out and uncomfortable on the bike. So I lifted the stem, not much difference. Used a shorter stem, still not much difference. So counter-intuitively I then lowered the stem about 2cm lower than the original position. Excellent! Don't feel stretched, more comfy and seem to have more power to the pedals. So what might be going on? Something to do with pelvic tilt perhap? Thanks in advance, Steve.
Cheers,
Cameron
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby Lots of steel bikes » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:36 pm
I used to get lower back pain from cycling. I dropped the nose of the saddle a tiny amount as per this sport medicine paper http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/33/6/398 Have been pain free ever since. I wonder now if, with the lower stem position, I'll develop neck pain on longer rides.winstonw wrote:yes it is possible you anteriorly tilt your pelvis more with a lower stem, and your knees thereby migrate forwards somewhat.
Your back may be flexing less in this position.
Things that limit back angle are lumbar disc irritation (and accompanying neurological symptoms like sciatica) or facet jt stiffness, thoracic facet jt stiffness, neck shoulder stiffness, excessive visceral fat, large thighs, compromised diaphramatic breathing, muscle imbalance or disturbance (iliopsoas, gluts, hams, posterior shoulder girdle)
- greyhoundtom
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby greyhoundtom » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:07 pm
I found the same about twelve months ago.........but after sitting on my butt for 8 months due to illness I have just recently had to lift the stem significantly due to the tops of my thighs banging into my fat guts.Lots of steel bikes wrote:I was feeling too stretched out and uncomfortable on the bike. So I lifted the stem, not much difference. Used a shorter stem, still not much difference. So counter-intuitively I then lowered the stem about 2cm lower than the original position. Excellent! Don't feel stretched, more comfy and seem to have more power to the pedals. So what might be going on? Something to do with pelvic tilt perhap? Thanks in advance, Steve.
- foo on patrol
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby foo on patrol » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:03 am
This Haha I can relate to but I just stay on top of the bars but may be different when I get on my track bike.greyhoundtom wrote:I found the same about twelve months ago.........but after sitting on my butt for 8 months due to illness I have just recently had to lift the stem significantly due to the tops of my thighs banging into my fat guts.Lots of steel bikes wrote:I was feeling too stretched out and uncomfortable on the bike. So I lifted the stem, not much difference. Used a shorter stem, still not much difference. So counter-intuitively I then lowered the stem about 2cm lower than the original position. Excellent! Don't feel stretched, more comfy and seem to have more power to the pedals. So what might be going on? Something to do with pelvic tilt perhap? Thanks in advance, Steve.
Foo
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby Nobody » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:15 am
How much shorter is the new stem? The 2cm drop may be balanced by the shorter stem. So effectively a similar length, just in a different position. I've got a flat bar which the ETT is a bit small for me. Lowering the bar height helped lengthening the effective reach.Lots of steel bikes wrote:I was feeling too stretched out and uncomfortable on the bike. So I lifted the stem, not much difference. Used a shorter stem, still not much difference. So counter-intuitively I then lowered the stem about 2cm lower than the original position. Excellent! Don't feel stretched, more comfy and seem to have more power to the pedals. So what might be going on? Something to do with pelvic tilt perhap? Thanks in advance, Steve.
http://www.rivbike.com/v/vspfiles/asset ... xcerpt.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby Lots of steel bikes » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:47 pm
2cm shorter stem. So, as you, a different position. The link you gave makes for interesting reading.Nobody wrote:How much shorter is the new stem? The 2cm drop may be balanced by the shorter stem. So effectively a similar length, just in a different position. I've got a flat bar which the ETT is a bit small for me. Lowering the bar height helped lengthening the effective reach.Lots of steel bikes wrote:I was feeling too stretched out and uncomfortable on the bike. So I lifted the stem, not much difference. Used a shorter stem, still not much difference. So counter-intuitively I then lowered the stem about 2cm lower than the original position. Excellent! Don't feel stretched, more comfy and seem to have more power to the pedals. So what might be going on? Something to do with pelvic tilt perhap? Thanks in advance, Steve.
http://www.rivbike.com/v/vspfiles/asset ... xcerpt.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby winstonw » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:09 pm
yep tilting the nose down can help by reducing lumbar flexion.Lots of steel bikes wrote:I used to get lower back pain from cycling. I dropped the nose of the saddle a tiny amount as per this sport medicine paper http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/33/6/398 Have been pain free ever since. I wonder now if, with the lower stem position, I'll develop neck pain on longer rides.winstonw wrote:yes it is possible you anteriorly tilt your pelvis more with a lower stem, and your knees thereby migrate forwards somewhat.
Your back may be flexing less in this position.
Things that limit back angle are lumbar disc irritation (and accompanying neurological symptoms like sciatica) or facet jt stiffness, thoracic facet jt stiffness, neck shoulder stiffness, excessive visceral fat, large thighs, compromised diaphramatic breathing, muscle imbalance or disturbance (iliopsoas, gluts, hams, posterior shoulder girdle)
however, even in Masters cyclists, the body can adapt to a more aero position....over time. If you are 50, you could continue to make aero gains for 3-5 years.
The limits of one's ability to adapt to a more aggressive position and more time in the saddle is very individual.
Generally, my view is slowly increase your time and intensity in the saddle, get your body fat to around 10% for men, 12% women (lower %s should be cleared by your GP), do flexibility exercises, practice higher cadence riding, consider shorter cranks i.e. if using 175, try 170.
- singlespeedscott
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:06 pm
What's the goal with saddle to bar drop? How small a frame is to small?
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby Lots of steel bikes » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:43 am
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby Lots of steel bikes » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:51 pm
Aesthetically a very long seat post on a horizontal tope tube bike looks terrible. But practically, I guess a limitation of a too small frame would be knees hitting the bars. The goal would be comfort and efficiency.singlespeedscott wrote:So how low can you go?
What's the goal with saddle to bar drop? How small a frame is to small?
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby HLC » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:51 pm
Have tried a larger frame more traditionally associated with my height/inseam with a longer raised stem and felt like superman (ie stretched out). Not a good feeling.
Fyi, 179cm,90cm inseam, 54cm frame, 80mm stem.
Both my trackie and roadie are set up the same.
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby Dr_Mutley » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:06 am
HLC wrote:I ride a smaller frame with a shorter slammed stem and massive saddle-bar drop and find this is the best fit for me as well.
Have tried a larger frame more traditionally associated with my height/inseam with a longer raised stem and felt like superman (ie stretched out). Not a good feeling.
Fyi, 179cm,90cm inseam, 54cm frame, 80mm stem.
Both my trackie and roadie are set up the same.
Shouldn't that be, u ride a LARGER frame, with a shorter, slammed stem?
Given the figures above couldn't u ride a 51 with a more normal length stem?
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby Nobody » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:29 am
A smaller frame is like a smaller stem in that it allows for your arms to be more vertical and therefore to drop the bar more. That is if you can avoid hitting your knees on the handlebar when standing while going up hill. It appears logical that having your hands lower but more under your shoulders could be more comfortable for the same body angle. However, a shorter frame center to front also lowers braking performance, not that many seem to worry about that.Dr_Mutley wrote:Shouldn't that be, u ride a LARGER frame, with a shorter, slammed stem?HLC wrote:I ride a smaller frame with a shorter slammed stem...
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby Ozkaban » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:25 am
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby ironhanglider » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:52 pm
My bike is made to go... not stop! (apologies to Etore Bugatti).Nobody wrote: However, a shorter frame center to front also lowers braking performance, not that many seem to worry about that.
Cheers,
Cameron
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:41 pm
Getting out of the saddle must be difficult with your hands moved underneath your stomach.
Descending at high speed must be a handful as well. Not to mention the compromised front braking.
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby Dr_Mutley » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:13 pm
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:29 pm
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby Lots of steel bikes » Wed May 01, 2013 9:06 pm
No problem for me. I'm the worst descender in the world, ride the brakes like a scared little girl.singlespeedscott wrote:80mm is not to bad if your top tube is long enough. Definitely would be squirrelly for me on a 54cm top tube coming down the back of Mt. Mee on Campbell's pocket Rd.
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby singlespeedscott » Wed May 01, 2013 9:48 pm
I don't get why people are afraid of descending. Often most are quite happy to tear it up in a crit. Jostling for position with 10 other blokes at 60km/hr to win a prime. But are to scarred to roll down a hill on an open road at 70km/hr.
Going downhill is my favorite thing to do. I am slow as a slug going up but catch most of my mates on the descent.
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby HLC » Thu May 02, 2013 11:47 pm
Fine climbing and descending and sprinting out of the saddle. I'm a far better descender than climber, and am pretty flexible. Even nailed a KOM on one of Perths few descents.singlespeedscott wrote:How do you go climbing and descending with such a short and low front end?
Getting out of the saddle must be difficult with your hands moved underneath your stomach.
Descending at high speed must be a handful as well. Not to mention the compromised front braking.
It's comfortable, it works and I won't be changing it any time soon!
Pic of bike for reference (Saddle has been moved forward about 15mm and up about 8-10mm from this picture)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/ ... irocco.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trackie for reference too (a little more reach on this one due to bar shape/steeper angles)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/ ... 74902e.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby singlespeedscott » Fri May 03, 2013 12:35 am
Nice Ciocc. What size is it? I.e. what is the top tube length? What is you saddle height?HLC wrote: Pic of bike for reference (Saddle has been moved forward about 15mm and up about 8-10mm from this picture)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/ ... irocco.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Bike fit surprise
Postby Baldy » Fri May 03, 2013 12:46 am
Fwiw... I'm 179cm, 87cm inseam just measured with a spirit level,barefoot. 56cm frames 120mm+/-7deg stems.Dr_Mutley wrote:HLC wrote:I ride a smaller frame with a shorter slammed stem and massive saddle-bar drop and find this is the best fit for me as well.
Have tried a larger frame more traditionally associated with my height/inseam with a longer raised stem and felt like superman (ie stretched out). Not a good feeling.
Fyi, 179cm,90cm inseam, 54cm frame, 80mm stem.
Both my trackie and roadie are set up the same.
Shouldn't that be, u ride a LARGER frame, with a shorter, slammed stem?
Given the figures above couldn't u ride a 51 with a more normal length stem?
The centre-BB to top of saddle measurement means more to me than the inseam. Mine is 780mm which is enough that you run out of seatpost on a stock 54cm Tarmac. My 56 still has 12cm saddle/bar drop. I had a Specialized BG fit and this is what works for me.
Thats a long winded way of saying I'm his height and theres no way I'd fit on a 51!
Skinning cats n all that
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