2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby Ross » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:36 pm

Meh, no different really to shop A and shop B selling exactly the same product for different prices. The same products from Woolies can vary in price from suburb to suburb.

I can buy Conti GP4000 tyre for $100 "on special" from my LBS or $40 from Bike Bug (technically both are LBS if I happened to live in North Sydney) but I don't see people getting all upset by that.
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by BNA » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:48 pm

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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby beanspropulsion » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:48 pm

Ross wrote:Meh, no different really to shop A and shop B selling exactly the same product for different prices. The same products from Woolies can vary in price from suburb to suburb.



Yeah but not by 133% mate

Bike shops may have such variance in pricing being independent but Woolies wouldn't.
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:26 pm

Ross wrote:I can buy Conti GP4000 tyre for $100 "on special" from my LBS or $40 from Bike Bug (technically both are LBS if I happened to live in North Sydney) but I don't see people getting all upset by that.


You musn't be looking in the right places, I've seen people apoplectic about things like that.
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:49 am

The price difference of new gear from retailers is different. In this case it is misrepresentation as it specifically excludes information that an honest seller should add. If the bikes are modified (eg. new running gear) then at least the seller could claim to be adding value. It is a bit like the used-car salesman stereotype and what is worse, the buyer likely wouldn't get the warranty that is essential for a supermarket bike which most savvy cyclists recognise are generally inferior quality.
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby K2 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:33 am

Ross wrote:Meh, no different really to shop A and shop B selling exactly the same product for different prices. The same products from Woolies can vary in price from suburb to suburb.


Sure, prices seem generally to be plucked out of the air for lots of things. But that's a different issue.

The difference here appears to be that shop A has purchased something from shop B, ripped the label off specifically so that prospective buyers might not recognize that they are the same product, and then gone to great lengths to describe it in such a way that the unwary would never recognize the two as the same from the descriptions provided. The vastly increased price doesn't really matter (other than as a possible explanation for what they're doing). If they chose to admit it was a Southern Star, described it with all the flowery prose they could muster, and asked a vastly inflated price, people might have a giggle and tell them "They're dreaming", but going out of your way to disguise it seems to be quite a different scenario.

Ross wrote:I can buy Conti GP4000 tyre for $100 "on special" from my LBS or $40 from Bike Bug (technically both are LBS if I happened to live in North Sydney) but I don't see people getting all upset by that.


Perhaps they didn't know? You've really got to work on your advertising Ross. :)

If you'd purchased a tyre from your LBS which they claimed was revolutionary (not a lie as such; that whole pneumatic thing just happened a while ago), and made a load of ludicrous claims that lead you to believe that you might be lucky enough to be onto something that Dr Who brought back from the future, and you subsequently discovered that the tyre was actually just a GP4000 to which your LBS had taken a scalpel so as to remove all traces that it was a GP4000 (which they'd purchased at Bike Bug), and had in fact distorted every feature whilst your attention was distracted by massive lens flare, I suspect you'd be rather upset, especially once you realized they'd gone to all that trouble just so you wouldn't be able to compare and contrast. Were you to relate the story here I'm sure you'd receive many replies empathizing with your pain (cos most folk hereabouts seem quite nice), and some might even suggest you take the matter to Consumer Affairs whilst simultaneously withdrawing any support for the LBS in question.

Does that not sound like a better comparison? (ie. same v same = all's fair in love & war : same v purposely disguised to fool = not so much)

If they weren't doing it on a site which is so frequently used by scammers that the hosts have to provide a bazillion tips on how to try and avoid them then you could very well assume that it was some marketing course project gone a bit astray.
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:29 pm

Question for OP TTar

A post was made which does not appear from a person who says that they have had contact with the seller. The post has not been published. It is a highly unusual post including speculation not worth presenting here however a question for you on this.

Do you know the seller, have you had dealings with them or are you a competitor?

While I believe I know the answers, what it does do is clarfy that you have no vested interest.
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby TTar » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:03 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Question for OP TTar

A post was made which does not appear from a person who says that they have had contact with the seller. The post has not been published. It is a highly unusual post including speculation not worth presenting here however a question for you on this.

Do you know the seller, have you had dealings with them or are you a competitor?


While I believe I know the answers, what it does do is clarfy that you have no vested interest.



The answer to all those questions is no. In fact, I've never put up anything for sale through Gumtree.

The mysterious post sounds intriguing, though. This has turned into quite an epic saga.

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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby find_bruce » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:14 pm

TTar wrote:Apologies if you tried to PM me, I joined BNA on a since defunct email account -- I'd update it if i knew how :?

At the risk of being useful, User Control Panel >> Profile >> Edit Account settings >> enter new email address twice & submit
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby TTar » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:30 pm

find_bruce wrote:
TTar wrote:Apologies if you tried to PM me, I joined BNA on a since defunct email account -- I'd update it if i knew how :?

At the risk of being useful, User Control Panel >> Profile >> Edit Account settings >> enter new email address twice & submit



It was a risk that paid off, but it turns out I signed up with a still current email and it looks like BNA PMs don't use private emails -- I understand these pages as well as I understand T-Ways*

Thanks anyway.

*in-joke
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby PB12IN » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:34 pm

TTar wrote:A seller on gumtree is offering this bike for $350;

Image and Cached Version Here (ad was removed)


I saw one of these on the road today, damm it was fast, it just flew past me today when I was in the car (I was stopped at the lights).
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby im_no_pro » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:28 pm

PB12IN wrote:
I saw one of these on the road today, damm it was fast, it just flew past me today when I was in the car (I was stopped at the lights).


I assume it was going downhill on a 15% gradient then :lol:
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:54 am

Thanks TTar - so for the record, for any curious readers, the Original Poster TTar has responded that they have no association or vested interest such as a financial interest or competitive interest.
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:47 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Thanks TTar - so for the record, for any curious readers, the Original Poster TTar has responded that they have no association or vested interest such as a financial interest or competitive interest.

Now it's gotten intriguing. Looks like there is some skullduggery going on behind the scenes. It would make for some interesting reading I guess... :mrgreen:
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby jasonc » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:24 pm

maybe we should put the seller in contact with jeremyk

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=65716
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby TMjpn » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:47 pm

I can't help but laugh at this - thought the lack of.. ethics is disappointing. Eventually someone will be dumb enough to be stung. Most folk do their research and likely wouldn't plonk down money on an unbranded frame - those people who dont usually go straight to K-Mart anyway.

I'm surprised no-one has gotten in contact with the seller to organise a 'purchase'.

I'd love to create some competition for them :) my differentiator would be writing my own brand name on the downtube with permanant marker and harping on about how evocative it is.
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:07 pm

Best to leave the seller alone - there is not much that can be done apart from raising basic awareness here and leaving this as a resource for potential buyers who check-up.
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby ausbike » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:40 pm

Hi my name is Jenny, I am the coordinator of the user forum (international, no affiliation with this site), I like to point out again that this post contains stolen images and it is the responsibility of the site admin (AUbicycles), I would urge the admin not to knowingly host the stolen images, instead, use link reference to facilitate the discussion.

I would also like to point out that this post started with a misleading analogy, after the complaints we received, we checked with the shop the author mentioned, we were told it's not possible to ride any bike home, the best we could get from the shop promoted by the author was to take some components home in a box. The author of the post is comparing prices between two very difference things. Clearly a post like this depend on error of judgement of the admin to survive (assuming the post was not started by the admin's mate). We have previously made attempt to reveal the truth, our replied was blocked and you seem to have difficulty to explain it so far.

It's my understand that issues like hosting stolen images are known to the admin of this forum by now and the post continued to serve as a spam generator to the gumtree website (it's reported misled viewers of this post were spamming gumtree with no intention to purchasing the items advertised). We are recording this replying process and running a parallel discussion in independent forums hosted on other sites as to assist and encourage correct actions to be taken by the admin of this site.

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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby ausbike » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:42 pm

Hi my name is Jenny, I am the coordinator of the user forum (international, no affiliation with this site), I like to point out again that this post contains stolen images and it is the responsibility of the site admin (AUbicycles), I would urge the admin not to knowingly host the stolen images, instead, use link reference to facilitate the discussion.

I would also like to point out that this post started with a misleading analogy, after the complaints we received, we checked with the shop the author mentioned, we were told it's not possible to ride any bike home, the best we could get from the shop promoted by the author was to take some components home in a box. The author of the post is comparing prices between two very difference things. Clearly a post like this depend on error of judgement of the admin to survive (assuming the post was not started by the admin's mate). We have previously made attempt to reveal the truth, our replied was blocked and you seem to have difficulty to explain it so far.

It's my understand that issues like hosting stolen images are known to the admin of this forum by now and the post continued to serve as a spam generator to the gumtree website (it's reported misled viewers of this post were spamming gumtree with no intention to purchasing the items advertised). We are recording this replying process and running a parallel discussion in independent forums hosted on other sites as to assist and encourage correct actions to be taken by the admin of this site.

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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby ausbike » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:44 pm

Hi my name is Jenny, I am the coordinator of the user forum (international, no affiliation with this site), I like to point out again that this post contains stolen images and it is the responsibility of the site admin (AUbicycles), I would urge the admin not to knowingly host the stolen images, instead, use link reference to facilitate the discussion.

I would also like to point out that this post started with a misleading analogy, after the complaints we received, we checked with the shop the author mentioned, we were told it's not possible to ride any bike home, the best we could get from the shop promoted by the author was to take some components home in a box. The author of the post is comparing prices between two very different things. Clearly a post like this depend on error of judgement of the admin to survive (assuming the post was not started by the admin's mate). We have previously made attempt to reveal the truth, our replied was blocked and you seem to have difficulty to explain it so far.

It's my understand that issues like hosting stolen images are known to the admin of this forum by now and the post continued to serve as a spam generator to the gumtree website (it's reported misled viewers of this post were spamming gumtree with no intention to purchasing the items advertised). We are recording this replying process and running a parallel discussion in independent forums hosted on other sites as to assist and encourage correct actions to be taken by the admin of this site.

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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby ausbike » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:28 pm

PM from AuBicycles to ausbike wrote:
Hello, I am Christopher and I run this forum. Please forgive me as I am not aware of your forum nor that we require assistence.

Your post is not being approved as it makes a number of assumptions which are incorrect. The way it is written in fact suggests that there you have a vested interest and that the member who highlight the issue and other members who have contributed are competitors and are engaged with spamming the seller which is speculation.

Two issues - as I feel that you are not acting independently feel your aim is to manipulate this thread so the information is not available and secondly if I allow your post then it will become a massive argument which will leave everyone upset.

What I will do for your benefit is asked whether the original poster or anyone is the seller, knows the seller, has any contact with the seller or has any vested interest.

At the end of the day it is about a caring community trying to protect other less knowledgeable buyers from purchasing a product which is sold with key information excluded and appears to be an attempt of misrepresentation. I am sure that if you have no vested interest that you would agree that it is more important to raise and discuss these issues rather than ignore them.

Regards
Christopher



Hi Christopher

The compose message bit was disabled, so I am replying to you here.

I am not assisting this forum to promote a bias view, I am joining the discuss to reveal what have been hidden after receiving a number of complaints. A worthy forum should allow balance view.

First thing first, the image on the first post was stolen from a seller on gumtree, the author may not like the seller, that doesn't mean he/she can assume copyright of the image own by someone you don't like. The fact that the image was online doesn't mean you can just take it and host it on your site. The right way to do it is to refer to the image with a link. Images in several replies were also taken out of the web without the copyright owner's explicit consent. These stolen image are being host by your on your website.

It's reported this post have generated spams to sellers on gumtree. A caring community will not need to use stolen images and misleading analogy to generate spam. Raising an issue, yes, steal images or mislead to generate spam to harm other communities, no. There are clear differences.

I am obviously going against the author's view by revealing the misleading analogy, so being independent or not is not an issue, if going against the author means not independent, so be it. After all I am an participant of the discussion here, I don't have to be supporting the view of the author, but should be heard.

As you suggested, it's good to raise issues, the stolen images being hosted on this site is a worthy issue to be raised. The spamming issue is another one. I like to raise them here first and hopefully can be resolved without going any further, What do you think?

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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:36 pm

I was intending to resolve this directly with the poster 'ausbike' who posted here and as a first poster the post was not approved and I sent a follow-up. The post did not appear to be a genuine post from a 3rd party informing me of issues rather was written, I believe, by a person is the seller, or is associated with the gumtree seller however is appearing to be unrelated. A number of posts have subsequently appeared and as this is the intent of the poster to have this public, I will oblige.

The poster suggests the website is hosting 'stolen' images which of course is not correct. Images on this forum, excluding my own ones, are not hosted on this server rather can only be linked. For peace of mind, here are the locations of the linked images used:

Code: Select all
http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/blnc/130702/729r1/1484n75_20.jpeg
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/Me8AAMXQ8ABRmVu-/$T2eC16ZHJIkE9qU3k7GiBRmVu-gplg~~60_35.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTc4WDc3MQ==/$T2eC16RHJFsFFSTDFiEbBR1OQ,OsE!~~48_20.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTE4WDY5MQ==/$T2eC16R,!ysE9sy0iHyJBR1NbUdhI!~~48_20.JPG



Regarding spam - I suggest that if you have contact with the seller and they are receiving too much spam, they should adjust the spam settings in their email application. This is not a technical forum so I can't assist you further. However there is no suggestion in this forum that people should make contact with the seller - infact in this discussion where there has been talk about similar situations, I have specifically suggested that it is best not to have contact with the seller.


I am obviously going against the author's view by revealing the misleading analogy, so being independent or not is not an issue, if going against the author means not being independent, so be it. After all, I am an participant of the discussion here, I don't have to be supporting the view of the author, but should be heard as to assist the public. Do you have a vested interest in supporting the author's view?


If you are the seller or associated with the seller then it is misleading to state that you are not associated. If you are associated please state this and this can still be discussed. If you are not the seller or associated with the seller, likewise you are welcome to discuss however your post is highly unusual coming from an independent person and as I have written in the PM (now visible above) that there is potential for this to become a big argument and leave everyone upset if posted publically.

We do foster a forum of different opinions and where problems can't be resolved still aim for a culture of respecting other peoples opinions. As we have confirmed that this forum isn't hosting stolen images and that there is no association with spam I would be more than happy for you to discuss your viewpoint with regarding to the topic of the second hand unbranded K-Mart bike sold at a high price and of course to understand if you have a vested interest. The Original Poster has been asked if they have a vested interest or commercial interest and have responded that they do not.

------

Dear Members, so now you know. While I can't prevent further discussion, my motivations for attempting to resolve this directly are noted so would ask that any discussion on this is polite and thought-through.

Christopher
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby bychosis » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:13 pm

People do odd things to try to sell stuff. This link was a suggested item when I tried one of the links in the original posts.
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/port-macquarie-2444/bicycles/near-new-bike/1021831650
Not sure what the included receipt is meant to show.

I have also seen locally a giant boulder 29er advertised for $700 when RRP is $649 but the fact it is a boulder is concealed in the ad. That bike has dropped to $650 and now $600. Is possible the seller is short of a clue, but suspect they are trying it on to start with.
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby queequeg » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:46 am

I notice that the original ad now shows as "sold", but the same ad has been reposted:-

http://m.gumtree.com.au/near-new-shiman ... 1023402706
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby bychosis » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:10 am

Must have bought a couple. Since the first one sold i might have to head for Kmart myself. :wink:
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Re: 2nd hand K-mart bike for 133% more than new

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:46 am

This topic was discussed on Adelaide Cyclists and eventually led to me an ad for a brand new MTB available from Big W for $78
.
This is where the trouble started, my Mrs now wants me to justify a recent online purchase for ten times that amount and all I get is a pair of wheels. How can that be when according to her I can get ten sets of wheels (with tyres,tubes and cassettes) for less and get ten free bikes thrown in for good measure. I suspect a few nights on the couch may be in order but once those new wheels arrive I won't care because I'll be out riding on them.

I'm even tempted to buy the $78 MTB and go out with some friends on the trails and see how long it,or me, lasts before falling apart.
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