Gearing Questions

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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby RonK » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:31 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:Once you go beyond your 53x21 you should be dropping to the inner chainring.

But it's not macho to drop to the inner chainring. Real men ride the big ring. :roll: :lol:
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by BNA » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:38 pm

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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby Percrime » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:38 pm

Right dat :D
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:46 pm

RonK wrote:
singlespeedscott wrote:Once you go beyond your 53x21 you should be dropping to the inner chainring.

But it's not macho to drop to the inner chainring. Real men ride the big ring. :roll: :lol:


Yep. You hear it all the time. "I rode that climb on the dog ring", blah, blah,blah. To bad they were using the 26-28 pie dish at the same time. They could have done it just as easily and saved their drive train using the 39x19-21. :roll:
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby hannos » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:49 pm

I must be soft.
I ride a compact and usually a 12-28.



Mind you, my ride starts with an average gradient of 12.5%... That's not overly fun when you aren't warmed up...
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:30 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:You do know that a 39x32 is the same as a 34x28 and a 39x28 is just shy of a 34x25.

Yes. Yes I do. Thx. :lol:
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby warthog1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:38 am

The best climbers in the world spin up the hills.
Depending on the grade and length of the climb they ride compact also.
Small cassettes are very old school. They used to ride big climbs in a 42/23 cause that is all they had. Spinning up in a lower gear is quicker and saves your legs.
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby il padrone » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:31 am

.....on long climbs.


There is a balance to it. It is quite possible to gear too low and unwittingly go slower and wear yourself out through spinning too much (speaking as a 'spinner').
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:57 am

warthog1 wrote:The best climbers in the world spin up the hills.
Depending on the grade and length of the climb they ride compact also.

We don't have much in the way of climbs that force the best climber to get out the compact, though. The French Alps will have guys doing the compact thing, sure. I'm certain that they are doing whatever they can to protect their legs.

But we aren't professional riders putting out enormous watts per kilo trying to protect ourselves for the TT tomorrow for the GC. Those guys are spinning hard gears, with power meters, to gauge their performance. It's just not the same. As I said... 12-23 + compact should be plenty unless you're taking on serious hills over serious distances (3 peaks, Fitz Challenge, Jenolan return). I will not be using a 23 for Jenolan. But I won't use a 28 for my regular riding either.
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby rdp_au » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:43 am

Lots of interesting discussion on gearing options, riding technique and HTFU, but I think we may be confusing things somewhat. What we need in any gearing system is the capacity to ride our chosen terrain how we want to. This may be flat out, straining at the limits, or cruising comfortably. There are lots of different ways of achieving this, and they are all equally valid. I think it’s a bit simplistic to suggest that you need a compact, or unless you’re running a 23 you’ll never get faster. When I bought my first ‘proper’ bike in the 1980’s (for, ahem, triathlons), I was lucky that the shop owner was an experienced racer, as I really didn’t have much of an idea. He asked what I wanted to do, and what terrain I’d be riding and recommended a configuration that would have me working pretty hard on the steeper climbs. He said as I got stronger, I would use the lower gears less frequently and that was the time to change to a tighter setup. I started with the standard setup for the time, 52-39, 13-24 six speed and eighteen months later I was riding the same terrain on a 13-18 ‘corncob’ cluster. One of the training routes we used was to ride around the circuit at Mt Panorama in Bathurst. That was tough! I could not have done it at all if I’d started out with the more aggressive setup, no matter how much I’d HTFUed. Horses for courses. That was nearly 30 years ago - currently I'm using a 53-39-30 triple with an 11-32 cassette, and proud of it :D . I still have that tri-bike and these days it's tough to ride just about anywhere!
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:51 pm

I should note I'm 33, and been riding 200-300 clicks a week for a while now - I'm not one of the old grizzly monsters who grew up on standards and 18 sprockets for climbing :lol: I'm speaking from the perspective of the newish rider (as I was) who has done a century or so with some climbing on a compact. I couldn't have managed the Tour de Hills on a standard and 24, I was working hard to get up Glenhaven Road the second time in 34/27. But I had 75km in the legs on the second time up, and I had another 50 to go (including the ride home).

The simple fact of the matter is that your lowest gear options are seriously low these days, and if you've started on 34/28 then you'll have a very different experience to the grizzly bears who grew up with a low gear at the top of the granny ring and have had to retreat to the 28 cassette.

Funnily enough, I wonder why the old race cluster was 13-18? Perhaps the value of close ratios shouldn't be understated, even at the expense of climbing power? :idea:
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby zero » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:48 pm

Xplora wrote:
Funnily enough, I wonder why the old race cluster was 13-18? Perhaps the value of close ratios shouldn't be understated, even at the expense of climbing power? :idea:


I have extremely close ratios, as I use a 12-21, and I am forever double shifting it. Its only around the favoured gear that close ratios are useful imo.
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby warthog1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:01 pm

We have a 15-20 min climb where I live that has 11-12 % sections but averages about 8-9 %
The faster riders are all on larger cassettes >25 teeth
NRS riders and past Aussie champs. They are on 27s.
I took a look at what they are using and went to a 28.
Strava says its faster for me also.
Ride a small cassette if you want but over longer climbs it will most likely be slower.
Last edited by warthog1 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby warthog1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:06 pm

zero wrote:
I have extremely close ratios, as I use a 12-21, and I am forever double shifting it. Its only around the favoured gear that close ratios are useful imo.


That's why a sram 28-11 works for me. The bottom 5 are only 1 tooth diff and that is the only place they need to be.

I started on a 6 speed close ratio years ago also.
With the increase in gears available on 10 speed there is no need for them all to be 1 tooth apart.
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby andione1983 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:43 pm

cerb wrote:
Derny Driver wrote:I still like my 16 cog.
Riding at speeds between 25 and 30kph you need a 16.
39x16 = 24.58 at 80rpm, 27.65 at 90 rpm and 30.72 at 100 rpm.

I hate 2 and 3 tooth jumps.
Each to their own, everyone is different.


As I mentioned in gear spacing - the OP is a new rider. If their cadence isn't constant or specific over a specific range of speeds, it's probably not going to be the end of the world!

Also, 34x14 = 24.4 at 80rpm, 27.5 at 90rpm and 30.6at 100rpm. Basically the same gear as your 39x16, but using the compact + 11-28 I recommended.
y
+1 I'm pretty new... My speed fluctuates just after a good generally full range gear set size.
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby andione1983 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:43 pm

By the way it's been good reading had go fairly deep into gearing... Something for me to learn

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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby Philipthelam » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:49 pm

On my road bike I have an 11-25 cassette on a standard crankset. This was what came with the bike. I would have liked a compact crank but I think the gearing is actually ok for normal Sydney riding. I put the numbers in a gear calculator and it turns out that my low gear of 39-25 is actually equivalent to 34-22 so suggesting a 12-23 with compact crank is not unreasonable. My gearing is enough even with 10kg+ of stuff in panniers/backback when commuting and I would also like to note that I am still new to riding, I only started riding longer distances when I bought my road bike in February this year.

It would also depend on where you ride. For me it has been more about riding longer distances as opposed to actively seeking out hills and climbing. I would expect that this would be normal for people new to cycling. Sydney is also pretty flat and where there are hills it is just generally a short pinch, not a long climb. I don't know what is like in Melbourne though but I think that a compact with a 25 low sprocket would be adequate.
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby rdp_au » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:57 pm

That depends on where you live in Sydney! My 25km commute has a couple of 2km and one 4km climb. Agreed the really steep bits aren't particularly long, but there's certainly enough to raise the heart rate.... There's also the Gorges, Akuna Bay, and if you're really keen, The Wall at Helensburgh. Plus lots of hills on the Northern Beaches, as well as the aptly named Hills District.
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby Philipthelam » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:05 pm

rdp_au wrote:That depends on where you live in Sydney! My 25km commute has a couple of 2km and one 4km climb. Agreed the really steep bits aren't particularly long, but there's certainly enough to raise the heart rate.... There's also the Gorges, Akuna Bay, and if you're really keen, The Wall at Helensburgh. Plus lots of hills on the Northern Beaches, as well as the aptly named Hills District.


Yeah but those climbs are quite far away from Sydney, Akuna bay, west head etc. are in the national park about 30-40km away from Sydney, Galston gorge is 35km, Helensburgh is 50-60km away. Unless you live far away from the city, these places aren't usually places that you will just happen to ride through. The distance to get to the climb and back that would be quite a longer distance than what an average new cyclist would ride. There really aren't many long climbs in metropolitan Sydney.
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby Xplora » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:32 pm

I do most of my riding in that Hills area; you can do Glenhaven Road with a 39/23 if you are prepared to go slow :D
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby am50em » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:06 pm

Philipthelam wrote:Yeah but those climbs are quite far away from Sydney, Akuna bay, west head etc. are in the national park about 30-40km away from Sydney, Galston gorge is 35km, Helensburgh is 50-60km away. Unless you live far away from the city, these places aren't usually places that you will just happen to ride through. The distance to get to the climb and back that would be quite a longer distance than what an average new cyclist would ride. There really aren't many long climbs in metropolitan Sydney.


I live in metropolitan Sydney and the Gorges are only a few kilometers away :D
Metropolitan (from wikipedia):
A metropolitan area, sometimes referred to as a metro area or metro, is a region consisting of a densely populated urban core and its less-populated surrounding territories, sharing industry, infrastructure, and housing. A metropolitan area usually comprises multiple jurisdictions and municipalities: neighborhoods, townships, cities, exurbs, counties, and even states


or http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/lear ... tan-sydney
Metropolitan Sydney is classified as Greater Sydney - Capital City Statistical Area by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS). The area extends from Wyong and Gosford in the north to the Royal National Park in the south and follows the coastline in between. Towards the west, the region includes the Blue Mountains, Wollondilly and Hawkesbury. The area covers 12,367.7 square kilometres and is made up of 38 Local Government Areas (LGA) within the Sydney region and five LGAs in the Sydney Surrounds (Wyong, Gosford, Blue Mountains, Wollondilly and Hawkesbury).


Hmmm - nitpicking is there anything better :roll:
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby queequeg » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:31 pm

Philipthelam wrote:
rdp_au wrote:That depends on where you live in Sydney! My 25km commute has a couple of 2km and one 4km climb. Agreed the really steep bits aren't particularly long, but there's certainly enough to raise the heart rate.... There's also the Gorges, Akuna Bay, and if you're really keen, The Wall at Helensburgh. Plus lots of hills on the Northern Beaches, as well as the aptly named Hills District.


Yeah but those climbs are quite far away from Sydney, Akuna bay, west head etc. are in the national park about 30-40km away from Sydney, Galston gorge is 35km, Helensburgh is 50-60km away. Unless you live far away from the city, these places aren't usually places that you will just happen to ride through. The distance to get to the climb and back that would be quite a longer distance than what an average new cyclist would ride. There really aren't many long climbs in metropolitan Sydney.


If you live in the North of Sydney, most of those are local rides. Last time I checked, Sydney still included all those locations :-)
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby Philipthelam » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:31 pm

Fair enough, but why does it matter?

My point was that one does not need a really low gear for general riding in sydney unless you actively seek out hills and for a person new to cycling they probably won't be able to get up big hills whatever low gearing they have.

Sorry if I offended you with my ignorance. I know someone that lives in dural, it takes quite a while (a long time!) to get there and I would say is very different to my idea of what living in "sydney" is. You have to turn on high beam on the roads there and the houses are massive, he lives in a three storey house. He has a swimming pool and a tennis court in his back yard, the land is probably several acres/hectares... I don't know. Compared to others, his house/land is not that big. Hence the reason for my uninformed opinions.
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby am50em » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:51 pm

Philipthelam wrote:Fair enough, but why does it matter?

My point was that one does not need a really low gear for general riding in sydney unless you actively seek out hills and for a person new to cycling they probably won't be able to get up big hills whatever low gearing they have.

Sorry if I offended you with my ignorance. I know someone that lives in dural, it takes quite a while (a long time!) to get there and I would say is very different to my idea of what living in "sydney" is. You have to turn on high beam on the roads there and the houses are massive, he lives in a three storey house. He has a swimming pool and a tennis court in his back yard, the land is probably several acres/hectares... I don't know. Compared to others, his house/land is not that big. Hence the reason for my uninformed opinions.


We are just quibbling about the use of the term "metropolitan" which is not the right term for what you were trying to say.

I would say someone just starting can get up big hills if they have a low enough gearing.

I have ridden from Hornsby to Botany Bay several times - it is relatively easy to get across Sydney by bike and you can always catch a train with your bike if you want to go further (e.g. Blue Mountain or Mount Annan which I have also done)

cheers!
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby Duck! » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:41 pm

Philipthelam wrote:....for a person new to cycling they probably won't be able to get up big hills whatever low gearing they have.

That's a pretty sweeping generalisation there! "New to cycling" does not automatically equate to "getting off the couch for the first time in a decade", which at an extreme interpretation is what you're saying. Many new cyclists come from other active backgrounds and can find a tight cassette or *gasp* even a traditional crank perfectly suitable.

There is a lot more to the right gearing for any particular rider than how long they've been riding for. Overall physiology plays a big part. Some riders naturally work better at higher cadences, others at a lower cadence; I fall into the latter - I've been riding for 20 years, so I know what my natural rhythm is. My natural cadence is about 84 RPM, which is at the lower end of the generally-considered "acceptable" range.

Underlying fitness as well as expected terrain need to be considered when recommending a gear set. It's not particularly appropriate to put a big powerful guy on a compact with a wall-climber if there's not a hill within cooee just 'cos he's a newbie on a bike. Conversely, it's just as inappropriate to put a touring rider on a 54-42 TT crank & corncob cassette if they're hitting mountains for weeks on end just 'cos they've been riding forever.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Gearing Questions

Postby Xplora » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:07 am

Climbed Bellbird Hill and Wark on a 34/28 yesterday. Got a pretty strong time as well :) eon cussed me pretty early since he was going standard crank :lol:

I maintain my position. It was 12kms of climbing and Strava reckons you're going through multiple Cat 2 areas in the process; you really need a climb that goes for 10-15 minutes to require such a low gear. Maybe a good indication is how many times you stop for a rest? 1 rest, end sprocket 2 teeth bigger. 2 rests, 4 teeth. I'm not sure how I would have gone with Bowen if I had the 28; the climb is much sharper.
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