Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:17 pm

In the article, the retailer Bill Gordin didn't complain like other retailers do ratehr I found that it was quite neutral and an observation running a shop. The article assumes that people take photos and compare to buy online. It is reasonable to aim to get a good price and it is reasonable to browse. For retailers the aim is to understand how digitial technology and other sales channels work and understand how to then best do business - is it by focussing on core USPs and adding value for the customer or is there an adaption into other business approaches.

Regarding Suppliers - I think it is unfair to point the finger at wholesalers alone. Echelon was given as an example and if you have a look you will recognise that they are infact quite young and not riding on a pre-internet legacy.

I find that when people point the finger they first lay blame on the retailer. After they understand the margins and costs of business they then point the finger at the wholesalers. I would argue that you can't stop there - you have to continue and look at the brands themselves because if a brand is selling an item so that it is cheaper than a retailer and sometimes even the wholesaler can purchase - then the pricing and supply chain is managed by the brands.

What may work for the brands (shifting large quantities) and the customers (access to cheaper gear) then impacts on the wholesalers and the retailers. Sometimes wholesalers will complain about customers who don't buy local and about the unfair marketplace and bad practices of the big online retailers, though very rarely do I hear complaints from wholesalers about the brands they stock who are creating additional competition for wholesalers and retailers in Australia and globally.

On Australian pricing, I will note that I understand the different overheads of online retailers compared with local wholesalers - and simply being this country, Australia with its currency exchange rates, higher costs of business (wages, rent, admin, etc) and lower ordering volumes has created natural competitors as the world market opens - but Aussie businesses are still competiting successfully.
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by BNA » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:22 pm

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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby il padrone » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:22 pm

AUbicycles wrote:
SMH wrote:Bill Gordin can spot a ''price checker'' fairly easily these days, a customer who roams his bike shop not looking to buy but rather trawling for prices to compare with rapacious overseas online websites.


Last time I checked it was quite legal, and ethical, to make purchase choices from overseas stores, even overseas on-line web-sites :? :roll:
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby trailgumby » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:19 pm

An advertised price is an "invitation to treat". It isn't binding. However misleading and deceptive conduct is illegal under consumer law.

So genuine mistakes are allowed for.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby zero » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:25 pm

I've bought 2 leyzene products from my local bicycle store specifically because (a) I needed them on that particular day, and because (b) the web told me they were good, ie some stuff runs both ways.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby im_no_pro » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:14 pm

trailgumby wrote:An advertised price is an "invitation to treat". It isn't binding. However misleading and deceptive conduct is illegal under consumer law.

So genuine mistakes are allowed for.


Bait advertising is also illegal.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby Red Rider » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:11 am

Calvin27 wrote:Retailers need to know the days of impulse uninformed buying are long gone.

Good call. It still happens a lot though, but a business model that relies on it will not last for too long.

Rapacious is quite a strong term to be using, saying that online shops are aggressively greedy is not fair. They are out there trying to make a quid legally like any other bike shop.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby Summernight » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:30 am

Red Rider wrote:Rapacious is quite a strong term to be using, saying that online shops are aggressively greedy is not fair. They are out there trying to make a quid legally like any other bike shop.


Agreed. I would have thought that any bricks and mortar store should be hightailing it to create an online presence that complements their physical presence and that is on par with the online retailers in terms of product choice and ease of use (or as they have termed it above, their being 'aggressively greedy').

I, as a consumer, want to see what stock you have through your online website, in which physical store (if any) and at what price, with the ability to buy online if I feel like it. If I don't know what you stock I won't make the effort to head to your store over another store that may be closer or has a better online presence or range. If I see that a B&M store stocks a particular brand that I want, I'll make the effort to go to that store to purchase the item. If you don't advertise through your online store that you stock something I want, why would I bother heading into your physical store?
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby tubby74 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:49 am

the part I found interesting in that article was him saying he cannot compete on shipping times with the UK stores. Is there any good reason he cannot get orders by lunchtime out today? where is the delay in that process, pushys and cell don't seem to have too much trouble with it. Price may be something he can only do so much about but prompt delivery is certainly something he can address
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby jcjordan » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:25 pm

It's all well and good to suggest that retailers in n Australia need a online presence but it still does not put aside the primary reason why we use the o/s retailers.

Cell, Bicycle Express and the like can not compete on price. When I can buy my tires, tubes and other components at half or less than here in Australia there is no competition. Even if the Australian retailers can get in my hands in half the time 99% I have the time to wait.

The LBS can compete on the service and services side of the equation. They can provide advice on what and we're to buy and then help you maintain it.

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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby bcj » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:32 pm

It is simply a matter of service for the bricks and mortar operations.....they cant compete with online prices. It has been this way for quite a few years now. They must evolve like many other retail outlets.

The ones that have poor service or give you attitude (surprisingly still alot) will struggle and blame customers and suppliers. The ones that raise the bar with their service and workshops will prosper and flourish. At my LBS I am happy to often pay 10 - 20% more to have everything working smoothly, communicate any problems and support a local enterprise that engages well with the community supporting junior cycling and other initiatives as an example.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby delazy » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:39 pm

Working for a large department store selling electrical goods I have the same issues...

I've even had customers standing at the counter checking pricing elsewhere prior to paying for the goods (leaving me waiting 10mins to actually finish the transaction)...
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby RonK » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:57 pm

delazy wrote:I've even had customers standing at the counter checking pricing elsewhere prior to paying for the goods (leaving me waiting 10mins to actually finish the transaction)...

Fancy that! Inconsiderate customers keeping a salesperson waiting...how dare they!
Last edited by RonK on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby VRE » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:58 pm

jcjordan wrote:The LBS can compete on the service and services side of the equation. They can provide advice on what and we're to buy and then help you maintain it.

So can cycling forums 8) .
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby jcjordan » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:01 pm

VRE wrote:
jcjordan wrote:The LBS can compete on the service and services side of the equation. They can provide advice on what and we're to buy and then help you maintain it.

So can cycling forums 8) .


True but I think that most new people to the joys of cycling have not found forums like this one.

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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby VRE » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:01 pm

jcjordan wrote:
VRE wrote:
jcjordan wrote:The LBS can compete on the service and services side of the equation. They can provide advice on what and we're to buy and then help you maintain it.

So can cycling forums 8) .


True but I think that most new people to the joys of cycling have not found forums like this one.

Perhaps, and perhaps not. All it takes is some knowledge of using the Internet, and the assumption (a fair one, I think) that somewhere on the Internet, there is at least one forum for every activity. It's the first place I look when I need technical advice regarding bicycles, because I know that advice from bike shops quite often comes with a price tag.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby djw47 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:45 pm

I don't know why anybody would bother going into a LBS to compare prices vs online, the chances of getting a cheaper price instore is virtually nil. I can see that they might want to try on clothing to get sizing before buying online, which would justifiably please be my friend a store owner, however people have been shopping around for as long as there has been a market, it's not an internet thing and not a mobile phone thing, it's common sense. Dare I say there are too many LBSs around in Australia and many of these must be unsustainable.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby r2160 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:59 pm

Interestingly enough, Cell have appaulling in store service, but good online service.

go figure

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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby alburycycling » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:39 pm

jcjordan wrote:
VRE wrote:
jcjordan wrote:The LBS can compete on the service and services side of the equation. They can provide advice on what and we're to buy and then help you maintain it.

So can cycling forums 8) .


True but I think that most new people to the joys of cycling have not found forums like this one.

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Can't agree with that statement. I was reading this forum for a month before I decided to buy my bike.

I was trying to glean as much information as I could before buying to ensure I got the right equipment.

For me, it was a major buying decision, so I lurked quietly learning what I could.

I imagine there are quite a few like me doing that.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby Coolabah » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:42 pm

RonK wrote:
delazy wrote:I've even had customers standing at the counter checking pricing elsewhere prior to paying for the goods (leaving me waiting 10mins to actually finish the transaction)...

Fancy that! Inconsiderate customers keeping a salesperson waiting...how dare they!


Yeh.. I know you are trying to be funny but can I just say that , regardless of the situation that is just plain rude behaviour.
- I could stand at the checkout counter of my local supermarket talking on my phone whilst keeping all the other customers behind waiting...
- I could turn up to your place of work and do the same...
- I could stand on the bottom step of the city bus and also do the same ...


how dare me you might say ? CORRECT !!!!
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby il padrone » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:50 pm

I've been looking for some components at my LBS (a very good one BTW) and he has checked prices for me on-line, from his distributors and then come to the conclusion that I would be better hunting for the item on the net myself. This is a store giving good, unbiased buying advice, the height of service.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby Coolabah » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:37 pm

il padrone wrote:I've been looking for some components at my LBS (a very good one BTW) and he has checked prices for me on-line, from his distributors and then come to the conclusion that I would be better hunting for the item on the net myself. This is a store giving good, unbiased buying advice, the height of service.


yep. Be careful what you ask for....

... as you will surely get it !!
Cheap prices online !! (yay !!)
quick delivery from online shop (yay !!)
my bike is broken , oh good I'll head on down to my local bike shop...
... oh , wait there are no longer any bike shops in Australia as they could not compete with the online shops ???
(yay !!) .... wait ... hang on a minute .... WT? ???? :twisted:
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby jcjordan » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:42 pm

Coolabah wrote:
il padrone wrote:I've been looking for some components at my LBS (a very good one BTW) and he has checked prices for me on-line, from his distributors and then come to the conclusion that I would be better hunting for the item on the net myself. This is a store giving good, unbiased buying advice, the height of service.


yep. Be careful what you ask for....

... as you will surely get it !!
Cheap prices online !! (yay !!)
quick delivery from online shop (yay !!)
my bike is broken , oh good I'll head on down to my local bike shop...
... oh , wait there are no longer any bike shops in Australia as they could not compete with the online shops ???
(yay !!) .... wait ... hang on a minute .... WT? ???? :twisted:

There will be shops, just not as we currently know them.

We will see more of the mechanic only service centres

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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby il padrone » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:47 pm

Coolabah wrote:
il padrone wrote:I've been looking for some components at my LBS (a very good one BTW) and he has checked prices for me on-line, from his distributors and then come to the conclusion that I would be better hunting for the item on the net myself. This is a store giving good, unbiased buying advice, the height of service.


yep. Be careful what you ask for....

... as you will surely get it !!
Cheap prices online !! (yay !!)
quick delivery from online shop (yay !!)
my bike is broken , oh good I'll head on down to my local bike shop...
... oh , wait there are no longer any bike shops in Australia as they could not compete with the online shops ???
(yay !!) .... wait ... hang on a minute .... WT? ???? :twisted:


Drama queen !!

My LBS is a small store, owned by one local bloke. He doesn't have many people perusing the bikes as a rule, but he typically has 2-4 mechanics on deck.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby tekapo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:50 pm

jcjordan wrote:
Coolabah wrote:
il padrone wrote:I've been looking for some components at my LBS (a very good one BTW) and he has checked prices for me on-line, from his distributors and then come to the conclusion that I would be better hunting for the item on the net myself. This is a store giving good, unbiased buying advice, the height of service.


... oh , wait there are no longer any bike shops in Australia as they could not compete with the online shops ???
(yay !!) .... wait ... hang on a minute .... WT? ???? :twisted:

There will be shops, just not as we currently know them.

We will see more of the mechanic only service centres

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Yep, I think the LBS will just cut back on parts and accessories, and focus on service. You always need someone to sell whole bikes, and you always need mechanics to service the bikes. Online shops will never be able to compete on physical service. Having said that, the number of LBS will probably decrease over time as their "market" is smaller without the parts and accessories. But the good ones will be around no matter what.
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Re: Watching shoppers snap and walk out (SMH)

Postby Coolabah » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:59 pm

jcjordan wrote:
Coolabah wrote:
il padrone wrote:I've been looking for some components at my LBS (a very good one BTW) and he has checked prices for me on-line, from his distributors and then come to the conclusion that I would be better hunting for the item on the net myself. This is a store giving good, unbiased buying advice, the height of service.


yep. Be careful what you ask for....

... as you will surely get it !!
Cheap prices online !! (yay !!)
quick delivery from online shop (yay !!)
my bike is broken , oh good I'll head on down to my local bike shop...
... oh , wait there are no longer any bike shops in Australia as they could not compete with the online shops ???
(yay !!) .... wait ... hang on a minute .... WT? ???? :twisted:

There will be shops, just not as we currently know them.

We will see more of the mechanic only service centres

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4 Beta

good post... I think you might be right.

I guess my pet peeve is when I see all these posts by people who rationalise their purchasing decisions...
disclaimer : I buy almost everything online. I do not need- and therefore do not expect there to be in the future- the services of bike mechanics as I have always done this myself.

however...
I have never been able to , in all good conscience, self rationalize into the popular format of : " oh , wait , all the bike shops in Australia need to modernise , increase their online sales , all the old fashioned shops deserve to fail.... etc ... etc..." (this is pure BS unfortunately.)

yeh , sounds good if you have no clue about business. I feel sorry for anyone in Australia with a bike shop right now...
eg : it costs more to post an item in Sydney from one suburb to the nearest Post Office in the next suburb than it does to post from England to Australia. Look it up if you don't believe me...

"we" are the masters of our own destiny. If you don't believe me , ask yourselves this : would you buy a bike shop if offered to you today ? :lol:
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