Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby il padrone » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:44 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:I don't have to use a bell nor do I. A few times I did use one and mostly it was OK but a couple of times I would get a ped self-primed to respond to any cyclist on "her" path ringing a bell. Of course, once the rapidly turned scowling face sees.......


I don't know where such an attitude comes from. I certainly don't see it on the bike paths of Melbourne. Most likely to get complaints from peds when you call out "bike", along the lines of "Where's your bell ?"

It's really sad when people can be so ready-primed to bitch and complain.


One of the virtues of a bell is that I can ring it for pedestrians no matter how done in I am from that hill-clmb, and it will carry a good distance. If I call "bike approaching" from 30m out it has to be a shout and it sounds too agressive. A bell ring readily carries for that sort of distance, with no tone of malice. I reckon a few on here who seem to get aggro from peds over their bell might just be leaving the dinging a bit too late :idea: . 20m away is notification, 2m away is rude.
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by BNA » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:48 pm

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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby Baldy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:48 pm

Every time I ride my road bikes or MTB my bell gets stolen. Usually about 20mins before a police officer asks me where's my bell.

Just the other day I stopped to help an old lady put her groceries in the car. Went back to my bike and the bell was gone.

Or last week after I had done some work in my MTB ,I took it for a test cruise for 20ks around the local paths. Stopped for a nature break, came out and my helmet and bell had been stolen.

I don't feel safe in my community. What are they doing with all these bells? My theory is when you tap on the side of a Great Wall ute in the right spot....Asians will instinctively get out of your way.

So in the face of this epidemic, gripped by fear I keep riding. Maybe its the terror in my voice as I call out "RIDER" as I approach 2 peds taking up a 3m wide path with a white line down the centre. I never give a direction because that just confuses everybody. Bell=Rider. Rider=Rider in my humble, victimised opinion and experience they illicit the same response....good or bad.
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby jasonc » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:57 pm

find_bruce wrote:The requirement comes from the Trade Practices Act 1974 - Consumer Protection Notice No. 6 of 2004 - Consumer Product Safety Standard: Pedal Bicycles: Safety Requirements. There are however quite a few exceptions
Pedal bicycles, including fully assembled or partially assembled bicycles, but not including the following:
1. bicycles having a wheel base of less than 640mm;
2. bicycles which are designed, promoted and supplied primarily for use in competition;
3. one of a kind bicycles, being bicycles that are uniquely constructed to the order of an individual consumer;
4. bicycles which are designed to be hinged or folded, or to be taken apart beyond removal of the front wheel, for ease of storage or portability;
5. tandem bicycles;
6. power assisted bicycles;
7. bicycles showing signs of appreciable wear or second hand bicycles; and
8. recumbent bicycles.

The most commonly used is 2, even though a large proportion of such bikes will never see a race number.


is a day in court to contest the charge worth it?
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby simonn » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:02 pm

gorilla monsoon wrote:Don't be so twee, Simon. Or does the last line in my previous post apply to you?

So don't give a verbal warning re passing, that's okay. But seriously, are some of these riders so on the edge or so wrung-out with the effort of it all that they can't lift a thumb off the bar for one solitary flick onto a bell lever? Man, I'd hate to be that caught up in the moment.


"How up yourself" do you have to be to believe that polite behaviour is what you define it to be?

Personally, if it is not safe to pass, I just slow down and wait. Which is why I do not bother with a bell anymore. I don't Pathva or even consider training on shared/bike paths either.
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:10 pm

Back when I raced in the 70s, we had to have a bell on our road bikes before we could race. :wink:

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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:12 pm

Back when I raced in the 70s, we had to have a bell on our road bikes before we could race. :wink:

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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby im_no_pro » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:52 pm

Gerry.M wrote:In regards to new bikes, if it's law to have a bell your bike, then why don't all new bikes come with one?
My recent purchase of a carbon road bike didn't have a bell (not surprisingly) but did have all the daggy reflectors on it, which I believe are also law.

Should I go back to the shop to request said bell?


Mandatory standards require any new bike sold in Aus to have all appropriate safety gear, including a bell. Any shop that sells a bike without a bell and/or reflectors (front/rear/wheels) is actually in breach of the law. Of course most of them dont give two stuffs about it, probably because its unlikely they will get pinged for it.

edit: I really should read ALL the replies first... :roll: Bruce is right, although that notice is now covered by the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 which superseded the TPA.
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby WyvernRH » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:00 pm

find_bruce wrote:The requirement comes from the Trade Practices Act 1974 - Consumer Protection Notice No. 6 of 2004 - Consumer Product Safety Standard: Pedal Bicycles: Safety Requirements. There are however quite a few exceptions
Pedal bicycles, including fully assembled or partially assembled bicycles, but not including the following:
1. bicycles having a wheel base of less than 640mm;
2. bicycles which are designed, promoted and supplied primarily for use in competition;
3. one of a kind bicycles, being bicycles that are uniquely constructed to the order of an individual consumer;
4. bicycles which are designed to be hinged or folded, or to be taken apart beyond removal of the front wheel, for ease of storage or portability;
5. tandem bicycles;
6. power assisted bicycles;
7. bicycles showing signs of appreciable wear or second hand bicycles; and
8. recumbent bicycles.


That's just weird, why are tandems exempt?
That being said, just about my entire collection comes under areas (2),(3),(4),(5) and especially(7) :)
So, I'm assuming from my understanding that I could sell said bikes legally without a bell or reflectors (or even brakes in the case of a track bike) but to ride them on the road I would need a bell/horn and at least one brake?
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby im_no_pro » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:32 pm

WyvernRH wrote:So, I'm assuming from my understanding that I could sell said bikes legally without a bell or reflectors (or even brakes in the case of a track bike) but to ride them on the road I would need a bell/horn and at least one brake?
Cheers
Richard



Essentially, yes. #2 exists exactly for things like pure Track bikes as you suggested. Note that Doing crit races on a roadie does not necessarily make it fall under point 2 as some have tried to argue in the past.
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby find_bruce » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:42 pm

jasonc wrote:
find_bruce wrote:The requirement comes from the Trade Practices Act 1974 - Consumer Protection Notice No. 6 of 2004 - Consumer Product Safety Standard: Pedal Bicycles: Safety Requirements. There are however quite a few exceptions
Pedal bicycles, including fully assembled or partially assembled bicycles, but not including the following:
1. bicycles having a wheel base of less than 640mm;
2. bicycles which are designed, promoted and supplied primarily for use in competition;
3. one of a kind bicycles, being bicycles that are uniquely constructed to the order of an individual consumer;
4. bicycles which are designed to be hinged or folded, or to be taken apart beyond removal of the front wheel, for ease of storage or portability;
5. tandem bicycles;
6. power assisted bicycles;
7. bicycles showing signs of appreciable wear or second hand bicycles; and
8. recumbent bicycles.

The most commonly used is 2, even though a large proportion of such bikes will never see a race number.

is a day in court to contest the charge worth it?

Hi Jason, I was responding to the suggestion that all bikes must be sold with bells, which is not correct.

If however you are riding on the road or road related area, you are required to have a bell fitted, regardless of how pointless it may be & regardless of whether you are riding a "race bike" a clown bike or any of the other exceptions I listed above.
WyvernRH wrote:That's just weird, why are tandems exempt?
That being said, just about my entire collection comes under areas (2),(3),(4),(5) and especially(7) :)
So, I'm assuming from my understanding that I could sell said bikes legally without a bell or reflectors (or even brakes in the case of a track bike) but to ride them on the road I would need a bell/horn and at least one brake?
Cheers
Richard

Got it in one Richard. I can't explain why tandems are exempt, just as I can't explain why you it is dangerous to sell a bike with only one brake despite being perfectly legal to use it on the road. I could go on but you get the picture
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:02 pm

WyvernRH wrote:
find_bruce wrote:The requirement comes from the Trade Practices Act 1974 - Consumer Protection Notice No. 6 of 2004 - Consumer Product Safety Standard: Pedal Bicycles: Safety Requirements. There are however quite a few exceptions
Pedal bicycles, including fully assembled or partially assembled bicycles, but not including the following:
...
4. bicycles which are designed to be hinged or folded, or to be taken apart beyond removal of the front wheel, for ease of storage or portability;
...

That's just weird, why are tandems exempt?
...
Richard

And why AREN'T unicycles! :x
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby find_bruce » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:07 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
WyvernRH wrote:That's just weird, why are tandems exempt?
...
Richard

And why AREN'T unicycles! :x

Cause they aren't bicycles :D
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby AKO » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:25 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:And why AREN'T unicycles! :x

The way I read it they are. They have a wheel base of less than 640mm.
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby jasonc » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:53 pm

AKO wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:And why AREN'T unicycles! :x

The way I read it they are. They have a wheel base of less than 640mm.


+1

don't most states categorise a unicycle as a "toy"?
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby birdbrain » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:59 pm

ldrcycles wrote:
For what purpose other than avoiding a fine or riding on paths? On the road a bell isn't going to do a damn thing, surely you don't think a motorist is going to hear a little 'ting-ting' and not run you down?



Agree 100%. Even on cycle paths I've always found peds appreciate a voice rather than a ding. Why isn't there a rule for peds who meander along shared paths listening to iPods and are totally oblivious to cyclists ringing their little ding-a-ling or yelling coming past?
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:19 pm

birdbrain wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:
For what purpose other than avoiding a fine or riding on paths? On the road a bell isn't going to do a damn thing, surely you don't think a motorist is going to hear a little 'ting-ting' and not run you down?



Agree 100%. Even on cycle paths I've always found peds appreciate a voice rather than a ding. Why isn't there a rule for peds who meander along shared paths listening to iPods and are totally oblivious to cyclists ringing their little ding-a-ling or yelling coming past?


Because as heaps of people on here said before - pedestrians have a right of way and it is the cyclists job to avoid a collision. :lol:

You've read it before I suppose. Me - I just slow down because I expect them to do something silly.
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby lobstermash » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:29 pm

birdbrain wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:
For what purpose other than avoiding a fine or riding on paths? On the road a bell isn't going to do a damn thing, surely you don't think a motorist is going to hear a little 'ting-ting' and not run you down?



Agree 100%. Even on cycle paths I've always found peds appreciate a voice rather than a ding. Why isn't there a rule for peds who meander along shared paths listening to iPods and are totally oblivious to cyclists ringing their little ding-a-ling or yelling coming past?


Te he he, there is this: http://www.cellbikes.com.au/Delta-Air-Z ... gory=60022
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby high_tea » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:58 pm

birdbrain wrote: Why isn't there a rule for peds who meander along shared paths listening to iPods and are totally oblivious to cyclists ringing their little ding-a-ling or yelling coming past?


Because walking around is a fundamental expression of a basic human right - freedom of movement - and as such should be regulated as little as possible. HTH.
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby andione1983 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:59 pm

birdbrain wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:
For what purpose other than avoiding a fine or riding on paths? On the road a bell isn't going to do a damn thing, surely you don't think a motorist is going to hear a little 'ting-ting' and not run you down?



Agree 100%. Even on cycle paths I've always found peds appreciate a voice rather than a ding. Why isn't there a rule for peds who meander along shared paths listening to iPods and are totally oblivious to cyclists ringing their little ding-a-ling or yelling coming past?
I notice this.. At least 50 percent have iPhones mp3s or whatever and don't hear when i yell out coming past and they don't even hear... So how they going to hear my little ding

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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby macka » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:05 pm

Seven of us were riding our bikes in the 'leafy' suburb near Fremantle and inadvertently went through a stop sign. Three motorbike cops waiting around the corner fined each of us $150, which we accepted as a breach. About 45 minutes later at the same corner fourteen bike riders in one group were pulled up doing the same thing but the cops let them off! A letter of complaint was sent in and the cops suddenly didn’t know what we were talking about. Gee I am glad I had a bell...
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby il padrone » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:13 pm

simonn wrote:Personally, if it is not safe to pass, I just slow down and wait. Which is why I do not bother with a bell anymore. I don't Pathva or even consider training on shared/bike paths either.


Which is what I do as well. But then when it is safe to pass then I will ding the bell for pedestrians. Of course a bit of a judgement call as to space, whether they are already aware of me, how many other riders/pedestrians are about etc.
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby il padrone » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:19 pm

WyvernRH wrote:That's just weird, why are tandems exempt?


Whooping and hollering from the crew warns anyone within cooee ? Captain has too much of a death-grip on the bars to ring a bell ? Tandems go so fast that by the time anyone hears the ding the bike is 100m past and flying ?

:P :P
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby WyvernRH » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:29 pm

il padrone wrote:
WyvernRH wrote:That's just weird, why are tandems exempt?


Whooping and hollering from the crew warns anyone within cooee ? Captain has too much of a death-grip on the bars to ring a bell ? Tandems go so fast that by the time anyone hears the ding the bike is 100m past and flying ?

:P :P


Gosh that sounds like us.... :)

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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby bychosis » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:41 pm

andione1983 wrote:I notice this.. At least 50 percent have iPhones mp3s or whatever and don't hear when i yell out coming past and they don't even hear... So how they going to hear my little ding

If they don't hear your ding, definitely don't attempt to show them your ding.
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Re: Apparently it's law to have a bell on a bike?

Postby Webby » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:53 pm

macka wrote:Seven of us were riding our bikes in the 'leafy' suburb near Fremantle and inadvertently went through a stop sign. Three motorbike cops waiting around the corner fined each of us $150, which we accepted as a breach. About 45 minutes later at the same corner fourteen bike riders in one group were pulled up doing the same thing but the cops let them off! A letter of complaint was sent in and the cops suddenly didn’t know what we were talking about. Gee I am glad I had a bell...


After accepting the breach, what was the letter of complaint about?
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