The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby jasonc » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:42 am

Lukeyboy wrote:Perhaps buy a new car instead of some rust bucket from the 70's.


some of us were born in the 70s luke - I'm not a rust bucket yet....
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by BNA » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:45 am

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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby Slvr32gtr » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:45 am

simonn wrote:You might put yourself into a situation where you a going to crash and injure yourself due to speed. My buddy did.


I have been in many situations where i have crashed and speed was a factor. I grew up mountain biking as well as motor racing so have had my fair share of incidents. Again, its about risk management and travelling at a speed that you feel is safe enough. Probability is a large factor in this and we perform risk management in our heads on every situation. If we crash, then that is factored in for future events.

There is always going to be a chance that it goes horribly wrong in life but this could happen in any facet, from crossing the road, to your weekly commute, to making breakfast or from descending down a hill on your bike.
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby Lukeyboy » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:52 am

jasonc wrote:
Lukeyboy wrote:Perhaps buy a new car instead of some rust bucket from the 70's.


some of us were born in the 70s luke - I'm not a rust bucket yet....


If you were starting to rust I'd tell you to see your doctor :lol: :lol:
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:58 am

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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby simonn » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:56 pm

Slvr32gtr wrote:Again, its about risk management


Humans are demonstrably bad at risk assessment. It's why casinos are a thing.

Seriously, they have done experiments comparing us to our hairy ape brethren and we come out worse.

Experiment: A red light, a green light and corresponding buttons. A light flashes and the test subject has to press the corresponding button as quick as possible. If the correct button is pressed within a very short time frame a reward is given. Which colour light is lit up is random, but the red light is lit up 75% of the time.

Ape: After a while figures out red is more common and just presses red every time. Gets rewarded slightly under 75% of the time the first time they play, but ~75% each consecutive play.

Human: Works out that there is some complicated sequence of lights that only exists in their mind and uses it to "beat the system". Gets rewarded significantly less than 75% of the time, maybe even less than 50% - the figures escape me. The real kicker is that when they are told it is random a significant proportion of humans still do the same thing in trying to beat the system (apes just look at the testers, probably thinking "I don't speak human, fool! Start the game so I can get a reward 75% of the time!").
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby Slvr32gtr » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:03 pm

The reality is even scarier than that! They have figured out how to ride bikes!!!

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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby Dragster1 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:52 pm

simonn wrote:
Dragster1 wrote:Too right sick of this crap also, With all the technology they have these days they could limit the speed of cars by satellite and gps, if they wanted to save lives . Its just a money grab from this stinking government and they keep on comparing crash figures from the stone age, Hello! our population is growing and more cars are being owned per capita every year.


GPS is not accurate or reliable enough to be relied upon for this and ultimately it still would not absolve the driver from responsibility. The KISS principle means the driver should be responsible for controlling the speed.

Crash statistics. The death rate for MV occupants has been going down because of safety measures (seat belts, air bags etc), but the proportion of crashes has not decreased at the same rate. Nor has the number of pedestrians and cyclists killed or severely injured by drivers.

How should drivers be punished if they break road rules? I do not think a speeding infringement alone is worth jail time, but a days pay would seem fair enough (I wish we used day fines here because it is fair). As for a money grab, :roll: you just need to pay attention when you drive, it is really that simple.

Finally, speed laws are about protecting other people from you, not from protecting you from yourself, so, although only implied so far in this discussion so far, are not nanny state laws.

I have owned over 7 cars all read the same speed as my Gps, I personally haven't had a speeding ticket for years and you could control speed limits on your normal cars with a gps but the government makes too much money from speeding infringement fines. Our highest speed limit in QLD is 110kms most cars can do in excess of 200km/h. You could easily design a device that limits speed in certain areas with or without GPS. Therefor if a car can only do 40km/h in a 40 zone instead of over 60kms/h like they do, it means im a lot safer while they pass me when im on my bike. Its not rocket science
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby il padrone » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:06 pm

Dragster1 wrote:You could easily design a device that limits speed in certain areas with or without GPS.

Yes. It's called a speed-limiter. Easy to do and used by many trucks in the transport industry.


And look at how well that works. I'm heartliy sick of seeing trucks go past me (while I'm sitting on 110kmh) bearing the sign "100 speed limited" :roll: :x
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby ldrcycles » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:37 pm

il padrone wrote:
Dragster1 wrote:You could easily design a device that limits speed in certain areas with or without GPS.

Yes. It's called a speed-limiter. Easy to do and used by many trucks in the transport industry.


And look at how well that works. I'm heartliy sick of seeing trucks go past me (while I'm sitting on 110kmh) bearing the sign "100 speed limited" :roll: :x


I often drive the section of Bruce Highway between Cooroy and Pomona which has had the limit reduced to 90kmh to try and stop the ridiculous slaughter between there and Gympie (which is stupid, the issue is the highway is one lane each way with lots of traffic, the crashes are caused either by people falling asleep or trying impossible overtaking manoeuvres, reducing the speed does 2/10ths of stuff all), I set my cruise control for bang on 90 (speedo and GPS confirmed) and then watch every idiot and his dog sit an inch off my rear bumper, even semis!
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:41 pm

If there's a low chance of getting pinged then people WILL do whatever they damn well please. These days speed compliance in Vic is at an all time high but almost nobody indicates these days and more than many seem to drive one handed so they can live tweet about all those bloody cyclists :roll:
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby ironhanglider » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:34 pm

ldrcycles wrote:
il padrone wrote:
Dragster1 wrote:You could easily design a device that limits speed in certain areas with or without GPS.

Yes. It's called a speed-limiter. Easy to do and used by many trucks in the transport industry.


And look at how well that works. I'm heartliy sick of seeing trucks go past me (while I'm sitting on 110kmh) bearing the sign "100 speed limited" :roll: :x


I often drive the section of Bruce Highway between Cooroy and Pomona which has had the limit reduced to 90kmh to try and stop the ridiculous slaughter between there and Gympie (which is stupid, the issue is the highway is one lane each way with lots of traffic, the crashes are caused either by people falling asleep or trying impossible overtaking manoeuvres, reducing the speed does 2/10ths of stuff all), I set my cruise control for bang on 90 (speedo and GPS confirmed) and then watch every idiot and his dog sit an inch off my rear bumper, even semis!


If someone gets too close for my comfort I bump the speed down 1km/h on the cruise control every 30s or so. I can't remember going more than 6km/h below the limit in this scenario.

I once had a car tailgate me from Jugiong to Holbrook (about 150km) and hated every minute of it. I even considered doing silly things to 'teach them a lesson' like aiming at and suddenly avoiding road kill etc. My current approach works much better for me. It may cost me as much as half a minute in overall time but it gets those whose idea of a safe distance is different to mine off my back.

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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby ldrcycles » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:49 pm

Oh i'm all too familiar with getting rid of them :twisted: , it's just the fact they're doing it in the first place that gives me the irrits.
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby Dragster1 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:14 pm

il padrone wrote:
Dragster1 wrote:You could easily design a device that limits speed in certain areas with or without GPS.

Yes. It's called a speed-limiter. Easy to do and used by many trucks in the transport industry.


And look at how well that works. I'm heartliy sick of seeing trucks go past me (while I'm sitting on 110kmh) bearing the sign "100 speed limited" :roll: :x

The trucking industry is corrupt as they come

yes it is a crock of shite when the allowance is 10kms variation on the 100kms and then you can make the truck roll faster down the hills without engine load. If you fit a tracker as some companies do you know exactly how fast the truck is going at all times. You could fit a transponder to all the speed signs and limit the speed by your computer on the car, so when you pass a 60k sign you car can only do 60k.

There is a thousand ways to do it but people like the fact that they can speed and maybe one day they will get caught or maybe never if they are lucky. I would rather get hit by a car at low speed than high speed, I am not whining like others just putting a solution out there that could be a fix. I choose to ride on bike paths and streets that are 50k but cars pass me well over that speed.

You could make a speed limiter fool proof they choose not too :wink:
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby Lukeyboy » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:52 pm

Lookie what I found up a slight hill at Redcliffe.....

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Time to have some fun! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:09 pm

49 up a slight rise Lukey? Must be good coffee up that way! :D
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby mattwilkinson » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:12 pm

If cars were limited to the speed limit I think there would be a lot more crashes,

People would try to overtake eachother with a 5km/h difference and drive kilometres into oncoming traffic before its safe to pull back into your lane...
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby trailgumby » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:17 pm

I just gradually ease out of the throttle until they get impatient and then pass. No sudden moves - don't want them in my boot. Especially if they're a large truck.
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby simonn » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:40 am

Dragster1 wrote: you could control speed limits on your normal cars with a gps


Dragster1 wrote:You could fit a transponder to all the speed signs and limit the speed by your computer on the car, so when you pass a 60k sign you car can only do 60k.


Which introduces a whole load of liability issues. Make it the responsibility of the driver and it is simple from a legal perspective. In fact, this is a major hurdle that the concept of driver-less cars will need to overcome (multiple times i.e. for each regulatory area).

I still know of several locations where gps gets confused over which road it is on - this is not uncommon where there are side roads next to freeways/highways and CBDs where there are loads of very tall buildings etc. And as far as transponders go, this is Straya. I give 5 days before some idiot smashes into the signpost and damages it.

I'd have no problems with speed limiters being fitted to all MVs. However, this would probably be to 110km as this seems to be the maximum speed limit and I am not concerned about speeding on freeways so much, but more concerned about it in urban areas.

Again, it is not a revenue raising issue. If anything a lot of speed limits are too high (as evident in the pedestrian vs speed graphic I posted earlier) yet people still break them. In NSW there has to be three signs indicating a permanent speed camera before you reach it. I think they have to be at least 100M apart as well. So drivers get ~1/3 of a km notice, yet a lot still get caught. Seriously! If they miss all that they should lose more than just a few points.
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby warthog1 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:46 am

simonn wrote:Again, it is not a revenue raising issue.



:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby Slvr32gtr » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:56 am

simonn wrote:Again, it is not a revenue raising issue. If anything a lot of speed limits are too high (as evident in the pedestrian vs speed graphic I posted earlier) yet people still break them. In NSW there has to be three signs indicating a permanent speed camera before you reach it. I think they have to be at least 100M apart as well. So drivers get ~1/3 of a km notice, yet a lot still get caught. Seriously! If they miss all that they should lose more than just a few points.


To me thats a perfect example of how inattentive people have become while driving.

I agree that people need to be held responsible for their actions and the majority of drivers have become so blasé about being responsible and safe (be it due to the safer vehicles and/or less chance of fines or reprimand from bad behaviour/habits). My problem is the way authorities hide behind speed limits and speed as the sole reason behind the carnage and claim its all about safety. There are more pressing factors that need to be addressed, but unfortunately the revenue and ease of detection are nowhere near as profitable as "speeding".

I find its quite disappointing watching how awareness, responsibility and safety are deteriorating out of the general road manners and conduct seen from day to day out on the roads (and in general life for that matter).
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby lobstermash » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:23 am

VRE wrote:
lobstermash wrote:I was disappointed that ABC's S**tsville express didn't properly cover the cycling option in their transport episode. The commute race home was won by a car going just 28km/h average...

Are you implying that a typical bicycle commuter could beat that average speed?


Sorry to dig deep into the archives of this thread, but I moved offices last week, adding ~10km to my commute. The first 8km of my ride is the same path I always took, however the extra is along a pretty well thought out bit of cycling path alongside a major artery. My average speed into work has increased from ~26km/h to 28/29km/h in spite of the extra distance, purely because of a slight improvement in cycling infrastructure on part of my ride.

I think with some tweaking to ebike regulations to allow them to match road bike speeds (increased power and regulation on brakes to at least match stopping distances), plus some investment in cycling infrastructure, a commuter should be able to match or better peak hour car average speeds.
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby g-boaf » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:32 pm

trailgumby wrote:I just gradually ease out of the throttle until they get impatient and then pass. No sudden moves - don't want them in my boot. Especially if they're a large truck.


Big trucks will just sit right on your bumper and blast their horn and blind you with high beam. Or crash into you. They don't care.
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby Nobody » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:19 pm

lobstermash wrote:I think with some tweaking to ebike regulations to allow them to match road bike speeds (increased power and regulation on brakes to at least match stopping distances), plus some investment in cycling infrastructure, a commuter should be able to match or better peak hour car average speeds.
The average flat bar would have better stopping distances already than the average road bike. It's usually not the brakes or tyres that are the problem, but the weight distribution on the bike.

Since the new e-bike regulations are designed to match Europe, I doubt they'll change unless Europe's standards change.
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby human909 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:34 pm

Nobody wrote:The average flat bar would have better stopping distances already than the average road bike. It's usually not the brakes or tyres that are the problem, but the weight distribution on the bike.


You do raise an important point. Though it is not entirely obvious to me that a flat bar bike has a better weight distribution for braking than a road bike. For every mm that the C.G. of a road bike rider is further forward it seems it is also a mm lower. I'm not disagreeing with you, I simply curious.

**To answer my yes, a typical road cyclists C.G. is at a lower angle to the vertical than commuter or flat bar cyclists. Google images and an on screen protractor showed an average of 37degrees to the vertical for road cyclists whereas flat bar cyclists are around 44degrees. Lots of possible errors in this measurement but I'm happy enough with the results to convince me. :D
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Re: The War on the Roads - TV - Sunday night

Postby zero » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:52 pm

human909 wrote:
Nobody wrote:The average flat bar would have better stopping distances already than the average road bike. It's usually not the brakes or tyres that are the problem, but the weight distribution on the bike.


You do raise an important point. Though it is not entirely obvious to me that a flat bar bike has a better weight distribution for braking than a road bike. For every mm that the C.G. of a road bike rider is further forward it seems it is also a mm lower. I'm not disagreeing with you, I simply curious.

**To answer my yes, a typical road cyclists C.G. is at a lower angle to the vertical than commuter or flat bar cyclists. Google images and an on screen protractor showed an average of 37degrees to the vertical for road cyclists whereas flat bar cyclists are around 44degrees. Lots of possible errors in this measurement but I'm happy enough with the results to convince me. :D


Road bike rider on the hoods will usually go over the bars before anyone else does. Even a defy has a sharper head angle than a giant seek, and the typical shipped stem is often longer, and people that ride on the drops usually fail to produce good modulation when braking (initial lack of power followed by panic snatch is not uncommon) and many "flatbars" are swept back too.

Road bike rider on the drops who has good technique should be able to outbrake the flatbar.
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