This should eliminate the danger from cars !

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby human909 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 pm

Dimis wrote:While I agree even one death is one too many, the road toll is from memory averages a small number 300-400 people per year.
When you put it into perspective ie: comparative to other nations, the number of cars on the road, and distances traveled etc... is quite low.


We are pretty good and our policing on speed and alcohol some of the strongesting the world. But the UK, Ireland, Germany, Netherlands, and Scandinavia are all doing better. Ie most all the other places that have a strong legal system and good social equality.

A fantastic interactive map here:
http://pulitzercenter.org/projects/road ... ualization
human909
 
Posts: 5294
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 am

by BNA » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:48 pm

BNA
 

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby zero » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:48 pm

Germany has a larger rail modal share, which causes its per pop road toll to be lower than ours, but its per km road toll is actually considerably higher. ie plenty of people out there misrepresenting German road safety in australia, usually with the goal of increasing highway speed limits.
zero
 
Posts: 2669
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby simonn » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:21 pm

g-boaf wrote:What happens when the sensors or systems don't work properly? I'm thinking of Malaysia B777-200/ER out of Perth many years ago which had ADIRU problems.


About the same thing when the sensors or systems do not work properly for a human. However, by the time driverless cars come to market, I expect the failure rate of human sensors to be much higher.

Also, we can evolve sensors much more easily. Once we (as in humanity) have worked out how to build better sensors the stay better. Humans just stay idiots and repeat the same problems over and over again (or even make them worse).

The difference between a car and an aircraft is that car can, in general, just stop so failing safe is a lot easier.
Image
User avatar
simonn
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Sydney

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Mozzar » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:31 pm

Then we will start getting i-cars, or google cars. Apple and google will start making their own software for the cars and then everyone will have internet in their cars. Then people will be spending 99.99% of their time on facebook or playing some stupid game like candy crush (no offence to people who like it but it's not a game that i could play all day).
Mozzar
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:01 am

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Paul B » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:38 pm

Dimis wrote:
Xplora wrote:Dimis, the road toll would disagree with you on the most profound of levels.




While I agree even one death is one too many, the road toll is from memory averages a small number 300-400 people per year.


you consider 300-400 deaths per year to be a small number ? You can't be serious. Anyhow, the toll Australia wide in 2012 was over 1,300.
When driverless cars are the norm, people will look back in amazement that road death was a reality at all.
Image
Paul B
 
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:51 pm
Location: Hobart

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Red Rider » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:44 pm

Mozzar wrote:Then we will start getting i-cars, or google cars. Apple and google will start making their own software for the cars and then everyone will have internet in their cars. Then people will be spending 99.99% of their time on facebook or playing some stupid game like candy crush (no offence to people who like it but it's not a game that i could play all day).

They've already started!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car
http://www.google.com.au/about/jobs/lif ... mahan.html
Image
User avatar
Red Rider
 
Posts: 749
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:44 pm
Location: Perth

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby simonn » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:51 pm

zero wrote:Germany has a larger rail modal share, which causes its per pop road toll to be lower than ours, but its per km road toll is actually considerably higher.


Is Germany's road toll better?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

Australia is actually comparatively good. I still think our urban/residential street speed limits are too high though. Certain freeway sections could probably have higher speed limits. The problem is that too many people have poor lane discipline (which is seems to be encouraged by the roads - new lanes appearing to the left and then the right lane disappearing... why? etc).

zero wrote:ie plenty of people out there misrepresenting German road safety in australia, usually with the goal of increasing highway speed limits.


+1
Image
User avatar
simonn
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Sydney

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Paul B » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:05 pm

another development hot off the press !!!
http://media.smh.drive.com.au/cars/car- ... 02235.html
Image
Paul B
 
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:51 pm
Location: Hobart

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby queequeg » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:37 pm

g-boaf wrote:What happens when the sensors or systems don't work properly? I'm thinking of Malaysia B777-200/ER out of Perth many years ago which had ADIRU problems.


Watching Aircraft Investigations, I find myself yelling at the pilots to ignore the ridiculous readings coming from the computer and just fly the plane. There were two almost identical 757 crashes where the plane was 100% operational with no control issues, but the pitot static system was blocked (one with a wasp nest, the other with duct tape!). Since the auto pilot takes all pressure based readings from this system (altitude, speed, vsi), a blocked system sends the computer into a tizz. As a private pilot who only ever did a VFR rating I never had to face that issue, but the first rule of flying is that power + attitude = performance. That is, set the throttle at 80%, put the wings level and the pitch at +10 degrees. The plane will climb at a specific speed. You don't need instruments for that, but it is not easy fighting an automated system saying you are going too fast while at idle power with nose at +30 degrees. Knowing where the computer gets its information from is a big help.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '09 Electra Townie Original 21D
User avatar
queequeg
 
Posts: 3055
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:09 am

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Xplora » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:26 pm

The comments about the evolution of the technology are well and truly on the mark. You don't need to strip all human control immediately. You already have drive by wire accelerator pedals, parallel park assist, ABS braking is a classic sneaky one, heck a computer is controlling the choke on your EFI engine from the 80s. It's not hard to change those reverse parking sensors to reflect larger areas of perception, and remove a driver's ability to merge into someone else. Take away their ability to accelerate from the lights. Crawl management (peak hour queuing behaviour would be easy to solve, just not cheap lol). It's rumbling along already. Just advance it 2-3 more years and support for even less human intervention will grow - especially as the climate change movement finds more momentum. Lots of fuel gets wasted by dopey drivers. ;)
Xplora
 
Posts: 6635
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby VRE » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:04 pm

Let's just hope they follow the 3 Laws of Robotics :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics
User avatar
VRE
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:14 am
Location: Ringwood North, VIC, Australia

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby winstonw » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:28 pm

Two mates and I had an incident with a quarry truck and dog last Saturday. Made a complaint to the police and the two quarries (Dayboro Rd, Petrie, Brisbane).

This got me thinking about onboard cameras yet again...and one of my mates said battery life will always be a limitation. (We were on 2x9hr rides back to back).

Then I thought well considering the electronic crp people expect cars to have these days, rather than stick cameras on bikes, put them on all vehicles and include a black box. Russians are doing this more and more as it definitely helps resolve insurance claims. I then envisioned the multitude of ways this would dramatically change driver behavior. It's a wonder our insurance industry hasn't been a major advocate.
User avatar
winstonw
 
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:18 pm
Location: Brisbane

This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby RonK » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:43 pm

VRE wrote:Let's just hope they follow the 3 Laws of Robotics :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics


Hehe. They are of course a work of fiction by Asimov. :)
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 5783
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Xplora » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:12 pm

winstonw wrote:It's a wonder our insurance industry hasn't been a major advocate.

It would definitely help if your insurance company just said "drop the premium in half if you have the camera set up". Not that hard to sort out either - set the recorder to delete the first 20 minutes in the video if you run out of space.

This is the biggest "thing" to me. Technology is only limited to your imagination. The simple fact of the matter is that some humans are not fit for control of a motor vehicle, and passing a driving test does not mean they pass the attitude test. We can resolve some of these issues, and we can definitely provide incentive to opt in. No one is perfect - but society has to draw a line in the sand and say "you aren't perfect, but you can't force other people to suffer because of your failures".
Xplora
 
Posts: 6635
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Paul B » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:39 pm

Xplora wrote:
This is the biggest "thing" to me. Technology is only limited to your imagination. The simple fact of the matter is that some humans are not fit for control of a motor vehicle, and passing a driving test does not mean they pass the attitude test. We can resolve some of these issues, and we can definitely provide incentive to opt in. No one is perfect - but society has to draw a line in the sand and say "you aren't perfect, but you can't force other people to suffer because of your failures".


+1
Image
Paul B
 
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:51 pm
Location: Hobart

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:00 pm

Paul B wrote:
Xplora wrote:
This is the biggest "thing" to me. Technology is only limited to your imagination. The simple fact of the matter is that some humans are not fit for control of a motor vehicle, and passing a driving test does not mean they pass the attitude test. We can resolve some of these issues, and we can definitely provide incentive to opt in. No one is perfect - but society has to draw a line in the sand and say "you aren't perfect, but you can't force other people to suffer because of your failures".


+1

And another
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 26340
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:10 pm

At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, 'If Ford had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon.'

In response to Bill Gates's comments, Ford issued a press release, stating: 'If Ford had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash......... twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.

4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.

6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single 'This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation' warning light.

7. The airbag system would ask 'Are you sure?' before deploying.

8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

9. Every time a new car was introduced, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as in the old car.

10. You'd have to press the 'Start' button to turn the engine off.

11. If you had to call On-Star you would be instructed in some foreign language how to fix your car yourself!!!!

12. If you multi-task while driving by turning on your radio, temperature control, lights, toot the horn etc., your car will drastically slow down or come to a screaching halt with each task!
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4938
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Xplora » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:34 pm

^^ Then Microsoft created a better operating system so the quirks virtually disappeared, and Ford did nothing except bleat to Barack Obama that they didn't deserve to go bankrupt despite not trying to match Microsoft's improvements on a far simpler platform. ;)
Xplora
 
Posts: 6635
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Lukeyboy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:01 pm

Passed a broken down falcon on the side of the road tonight... :lol: :lol:
Image
User avatar
Lukeyboy
 
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:38 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby VRE » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:05 am

RonK wrote:
VRE wrote:Let's just hope they follow the 3 Laws of Robotics :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics


Hehe. They are of course a work of fiction by Asimov. :)

So? Several of his works of fiction later on became fact. His thinking was way ahead of its time.
User avatar
VRE
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:14 am
Location: Ringwood North, VIC, Australia

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby simonn » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:12 am

Xplora wrote:^^ Then Microsoft created a better operating system so the quirks virtually disappeared, and Ford did nothing except bleat to Barack Obama that they didn't deserve to go bankrupt despite not trying to match Microsoft's improvements on a far simpler platform. ;)


Wut? Windows is still as quirky as ever. Sure it crashes less than a decade ago, but they still can't resist adding quirks on purpose.

I'm with you on Ford though :).
Image
User avatar
simonn
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Sydney

This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby RonK » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:35 am

Xplora wrote:The comments about the evolution of the technology are well and truly on the mark. You don't need to strip all human control immediately. You already have drive by wire accelerator pedals, parallel park assist, ABS braking is a classic sneaky one, heck a computer is controlling the choke on your EFI engine from the 80s. It's not hard to change those reverse parking sensors to reflect larger areas of perception, and remove a driver's ability to merge into someone else. Take away their ability to accelerate from the lights. Crawl management (peak hour queuing behaviour would be easy to solve, just not cheap lol). It's rumbling along already. Just advance it 2-3 more years and support for even less human intervention will grow - especially as the climate change movement finds more momentum. Lots of fuel gets wasted by dopey drivers. ;)


Some more examples:

Ducati Multistrada Touring - Ride-by-Wire, ABS, traction control, Skyhook electronic suspension adjustment.

BMW R1200GS Adventure - Ride-by-wire, ABS, traction control, ESA electronic suspension adjustment.
Last edited by RonK on Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...
User avatar
RonK
 
Posts: 5783
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Paul B » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:18 am

Nissan commits to self driving cars by 2020

"Safety Shield sensors provide 360-degree monitoring around the vehicle, providing audio-visual warnings and activating the car’s drive, steering and braking systems to avert accidents when things get dire enough. It’s developed on a philosophy of self-containment, eliminating the need for the car to be connected with external sources of data".

http://ninemsn.carsales.com.au/news/201 ... _editorial
Image
Paul B
 
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:51 pm
Location: Hobart

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Lukeyboy » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:22 am

Can we include Shimano DI2? :lol: :lol:
Image
User avatar
Lukeyboy
 
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 2:38 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: This should eliminate the danger from cars !

Postby Paul B » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:24 am

CEO Carlos Ghosn released a typically bullish statement on his company’s commitment to it this week.

“In 2007, I pledged that – by 2010 – Nissan would mass market a zero-emission vehicle. Today, the Nissan LEAF is the best-selling electric vehicle in history. Now I am committing to be ready to introduce a new ground-breaking technology, Autonomous Drive, by 2020, and we are on track to realise it,” he said.
Image
Paul B
 
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:51 pm
Location: Hobart

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cyclorider, myway, trailgumby



Popular Bike Shops
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Ebay Ebay AU
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers