Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby biker jk » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:51 am

il padrone wrote:The key point here is that with this rule any contact between an overtaking vehicle and a cyclist becomes an imediate rule-breaker. There is no spurious debate over "I tried to allow room". It just won't cut it. And I would hope that in any such infringement of a clearance distance, an actual contact would be prosecuted with a much heavier penalty than a 'miss'.


Moreover, by having a distance based law for passing a cyclist (such as 1m or more) the common driver's defence that the cyclist swerved towards the car will be much harder to argue successfully. Sure a bike might swerve 50cm off a straight line but 1m or more?
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by BNA » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:05 am

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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby g-boaf » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:05 am

human909 wrote:
Scarfy96 wrote:15 month ban and $900 fine issued in Newcastle yesterday.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/18796 ... ts/?cs=305

Guy has previous for drug offences, drink driving and assault so I somehow doubt he will sit out his 15 month driving ban ....


"Roderic Adam Clark, 42, attempted to run some of the cyclists off the road in his utility, which was towing a trailer, after he encountered the group of between 15 and 20 at The Junction on Christmas Eve last year"

Yet even despite all that "The negligent driving charge was not proven and was dismissed." :roll:


The fact remains that hitting cyclists in your vehicle is rarely punished. It is plainly absurd.


That's good that a prosecution was recorded - but given previous history, perhaps it should have been a more serious penalty. When there is a history, perhaps the penalty needs to be permanent loss of license.
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby human909 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:09 am

g-boaf wrote:That's good that a prosecution was recorded - but given previous history, perhaps it should have been a more serious penalty. When there is a history, perhaps the penalty needs to be permanent loss of license.


I have little doubt that if he was threatening a mother in her 4WD then penalty would more stringent.

I think there is little doubt that harm towards cyclists is not considered a seriously by police. There is a attitude that cyclists are taking the risk by being on the roads and that therefore injuries they receive are their own fault. :cry:
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby cowled » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:41 pm

---- SNIP ----
Last edited by cowled on Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby Xplora » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:59 pm

Might want to seek further legal advice before posting much further, I'm not in crazy rant mode and it occurs to me that your posts may be used in evidence in a manner that you don't expect.

What a worry. The prang in Sydney where the Optus bloke died after swerving to avoid a car shows that you certainly do accept more severe consequences but my experience of commuting is that drivers are well capable of dealing with the challenge of the cyclist. It's an unusual event, but so are elderly drivers, garbage trucks and buses. The accidents from these 3 road users and the general population are not that common so it stands to reason that drivers can accept full responsibility around a bike. We are not a special class that's more liable for their injuries.
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby zero » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:07 pm

Xplora wrote:Might want to seek further legal advice before posting much further, I'm not in crazy rant mode and it occurs to me that your posts may be used in evidence in a manner that you don't expect.

What a worry. The prang in Sydney where the Optus bloke died after swerving to avoid a car shows that you certainly do accept more severe consequences but my experience of commuting is that drivers are well capable of dealing with the challenge of the cyclist. It's an unusual event, but so are elderly drivers, garbage trucks and buses. The accidents from these 3 road users and the general population are not that common so it stands to reason that drivers can accept full responsibility around a bike. We are not a special class that's more liable for their injuries.


Yes if the rider had been driving a car enthusiastically in the same location he quite possibly could have killed or injured the unfortunate L plater, and he was probably only doing what most would view as a conservative speed (ie 40ish) under the circumstances in a car. ie every car that is changed to a cyclist instead increases the safety of all other road users, and thus respect of that, should actually be recognised in safe space being afforded.

The same backwards thinking applies to cyclists trying to get past parked cars. it is not the cyclist that blocks part of the road for as long as they feel like, and kerb parking is something a motorist significantly profits from, so should in fact be exceedingly tolerant of the needs of other vehicle types (ones that don't benefit from kerb parking), getting around parked cars.
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby Xplora » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:13 pm

Right again zero... 2nd Womble needs you for SCA advocacy purposes!
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:22 pm

Xplora wrote:Right again zero... 2nd Womble needs you for SCA advocacy purposes!

I don't think he'd be prepared to move to Qld.
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby Xplora » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:07 pm

NSW Branch ;) despite Qld having form for poor dealings with their southern cousins, you aren't running a Motor Enthusiast Party ;)
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:32 pm

Xplora wrote:NSW Branch ;) despite Qld having form for poor dealings with their southern cousins, you aren't running a Motor Enthusiast Party ;)

Only poor form with some of those occupying positions in amongst and with the cousins, not really so much with the groups themselves. Building bridges here. Selectively :mrgreen:
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby Xplora » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:34 pm

SCA, building bridges with the community, one genetic test at a time :lol:
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:35 pm

As for the state orgs, we don't talk about that side of the family.
BTW Cowled, has Ben Wilson given your video footage back yet, or was it thrown in the Too Hard skip?
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:35 pm

Xplora wrote:SCA, building bridges with the community, one genetic test at a time :lol:

Bingo.
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby cowled » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:08 am

The 2nd Womble wrote:As for the state orgs, we don't talk about that side of the family.
BTW Cowled, has Ben Wilson given your video footage back yet, or was it thrown in the Too Hard skip?


Yep, got the SD card back. Gotta say, Ben Wilson has been quite good. BQ have gone to a great deal of effort to obtain some legal advice (both civil and criminal) for myself as well as other BQ members. They may not advertise everything they do on forums and the like, but they do some good work IMHO. That said, I've got to say I do not understand their stance on the minimum passing rule.

But they do a great job getting people into cycling by running events. I recall the early days of my cycling experience (about 7yrs ago, now). The thing that got me into riding longer distances was my goal to ride in the Brisbane to Gold Coast ride. So, you could say that BQ fostered my interest in cycling. I've always loved those events, and seeing thousands of cyclists on the roads.

I know you don't get on very well with BQ and I don't know why that is, but I respect your opinion. I am also very grateful for the work that SCA does in advocacy.
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby The 2nd Womble » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:15 pm

Craig I just heard on 612Brisbane that a 43 year old senior constable from road safety (?) command has just today been stood down after an intern1al investigation. Is this yours? No other details as yet.
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby The 2nd Womble » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:44 pm

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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby winstonw » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:01 pm

sounds like he gets an extended paid holiday!
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby InTheWoods » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:37 pm

But we don't know if this has anything to do with Craig's experience, right?
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby The 2nd Womble » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:16 pm

Not yet
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby cowled » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:13 am

The 2nd Womble wrote:Craig I just heard on 612Brisbane that a 43 year old senior constable from road safety (?) command has just today been stood down after an intern1al investigation. Is this yours? No other details as yet.


As far as I know, this has nothing to do with my case. The only officers that were involved in the initial investigation were constables, not senior constables.

I still have not received a letter from the police commissioner.

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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby Scarfy96 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:50 am

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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby cowled » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:33 pm

Scarfy96 wrote:Queensland cyclists to get 1m clearance on roads, permission to ride without helmets under proposed laws

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-cyclists-to-get-1m-clearance-on-roads-permission-to-ride-without-helmets-under-proposed-laws/story-fnihsrf2-1226770826919


Yep, great news!! Four months too late for me, I'm afraid.
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby DaSchmooze » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:35 pm

Scarfy96 wrote:Queensland cyclists to get 1m clearance on roads, permission to ride without helmets under proposed laws

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-cyclists-to-get-1m-clearance-on-roads-permission-to-ride-without-helmets-under-proposed-laws/story-fnihsrf2-1226770826919


Made the fatal flaw of starting to read the comments section underneath. Wish I hadn't
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby BastardSheep » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:58 pm

DaSchmooze wrote:Made the fatal flaw of starting to read the comments section underneath. Wish I hadn't


Slow day at work meant I was in there all day defending cyclists. Of those who did return, I think I managed to get through to them. At the very least many gave up after one or two replies and me pointing out the flaws in their thinking. I'm hoping I didn't come across rudely/arrogantly, but I suspect I may have on numerous occasions. The worst was the one-post wonders who'd come in and post something I had already defended one whole post earlier. *sigh*

The most common was:
Them: HURRR! REGO!
Me: Why? What precisely is it that you think rego will accomplish?
Them: HERP! Uhh ... insurance? DERP!
Me: Most riders, more than you expect already have it.
Them: Hurr, personal insurance doesn't protect third party person and property! CTP!!!
Me: CTP is a requirement for rego, but it is not rego itself. So which do you want, CTP or rego?
Them: *if they even reply at all* Oh, err, CTP I guess. :(

Or

Them: HURRR! REGO!
Me: Why? What precisely is it that you think rego will accomplish?
Them: HERP! So I can report them to the police! DERP!
Me: Have you ever tried reporting a car to the police for breaking the law? Even with video evidence the police are usually not remotely interested. For them to be interested in lawbreakers they have to be there and pull the person over themselves, something they can do to cyclists rego or not rego.
Them: (if they even reply at all* Oh, err, ok. :(
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Re: Cyclist hit by car challenges police over fine - Fairfax

Postby biker jk » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:15 pm

BastardSheep wrote:
DaSchmooze wrote:Made the fatal flaw of starting to read the comments section underneath. Wish I hadn't


Slow day at work meant I was in there all day defending cyclists. Of those who did return, I think I managed to get through to them. At the very least many gave up after one or two replies and me pointing out the flaws in their thinking. I'm hoping I didn't come across rudely/arrogantly, but I suspect I may have on numerous occasions. The worst was the one-post wonders who'd come in and post something I had already defended one whole post earlier. *sigh*

The most common was:
Them: HURRR! REGO!
Me: Why? What precisely is it that you think rego will accomplish?
Them: HERP! Uhh ... insurance? DERP!
Me: Most riders, more than you expect already have it.
Them: Hurr, personal insurance doesn't protect third party person and property! CTP!!!
Me: CTP is a requirement for rego, but it is not rego itself. So which do you want, CTP or rego?
Them: *if they even reply at all* Oh, err, CTP I guess. :(

Good work I saw your responses. I was feverishly commenting as well pointing out that rego didn't cover the cost of roads which are funded from general taxation revenue, while motorists don't pay for the costs of congestion, pollution, and road deaths/injuries. That is, motorists are being subsidised, especially by cyclists.

Or

Them: HURRR! REGO!
Me: Why? What precisely is it that you think rego will accomplish?
Them: HERP! So I can report them to the police! DERP!
Me: Have you ever tried reporting a car to the police for breaking the law? Even with video evidence the police are usually not remotely interested. For them to be interested in lawbreakers they have to be there and pull the person over themselves, something they can do to cyclists rego or not rego.
Them: (if they even reply at all* Oh, err, ok. :(
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