Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby briztoon » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:49 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:She was representing the AGF who published this in 2010:
http://www.amygillett.org.au/new-resear ... -cyclists/


And this was the study.
http://arrow.monash.edu.au/vital/access ... nash:80938

There's also a study from Bond Uni, but I can't find it at the moment.
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by BNA » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:28 pm

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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby winstonw » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:28 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:
winstonw wrote:yeah, really bad attitude by the producers. tried to lighten it up with wooden puerile humor. ridiculous. and a lost opportunity.
And I'd question the Qld stats saying cyclists cause ~45% of traffic accidents. We now know police bias against cyclists prospers, and colors incident reports.

I somehow remembered that report mentioning that motorists were deemed to have been at fault closer to 80% of the time :?


1:40 here
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3857163.htm

Dr Jan Garrard
That's actually not correct. And a large study that was done in Queensland which looked at all crashes between cyclists and motor vehicles between 2000 and 2008, found that in only 44% of those cases was the cyclist deemed to be at fault. So that means that the majority of those crashes were actually caused by motorists.

Simon Pampena
Aah.

NARRATION
And the majority of the time, the cyclists at fault were under 16 or over 80 years old. Not middle-aged men in lycra.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby diggler » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:18 am

It is funny that motorists are annoyed when cyclists run red lights but not annoyed by pedestrians jaywalking.

I guess it is that "us" and "them" thing. Motorists are also pedestrians and see them as being "us".
That's what a fool does. I'm invincible, I'm paying money ... uh ... The girl's happy, she's got no money, I got my rocks off. How good is this?
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby human909 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:08 am

80% here of the time motorists are at fault.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 6581475412

The 2nd Womble wrote:I'll never get that time back. I could have licked one of our cats clean and felt a sense of achievement.

Is the a euphemism for something else? :mrgreen:
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby biker jk » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:17 am

The us and them mentality no doubt effects sentencing by judges. Just yesterday I heard that a truck driver in NSW who crashed while driving with his licence suspended and on ice received a suspended sentence but the guy who ran on to the field in a rugby league game was sentenced to three-months in gaol.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby il padrone » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:29 am

Ahh, but that guy was naked..... got to do gaol time for that, such a danger :o

At least the truck driver kept his clothes on.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby rkelsen » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:33 am

I have mixed feelings.

The facts were communicated in a humorous way, which is good... but it was very "light on" and as a result I'm not convinced that the message got through.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby Scarfy96 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:45 am

Guys I hate to point out the bleeding obvious but look at the target audience.

Catalyst took over from Quantum and both have been clearly aimed at 13-16yo "understanding". Their target market is kids who love science at school, and their parents. That is it. Now 13-16yo kids aren't driving, and parents who watch ABC (and encourage their kids to) I bet are responsible to a tiny percentage of the road rage incidents that are reported. They would be responsible for some of the "careless" collisions and an occasional other incident but I would hazard a guess that the viewing audience last night would account for LESS than 10% of incidents with cyclists.

The vast majority of bogan drivers weren't watching so there was no need to target that audience. The mockery of the the angry driver I suggest most would have got and been able to feel morally superior to "I wouldn't behave like that" and the few % that recognised themself probably felt a little silly.

So considering the target audience I think the article was fine. Had it been on TT or ACA then that would have been a diabolical approach.

Personally I loved the latte scene where the psychologist refused to take the stereotype and accept a latte LOL - subtle but effective.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby TTar » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:23 am

The 2nd Womble wrote:
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Yeah, real cute; that frightful creature is gloating having just rendered the poor little puppy dog unconscious!!!

=====================================================================


cyclotaur wrote:... my teenage daughter 'got it' ...
Much better than preachy and didactic opinion,


Cyclists' teenage daughters aren't hooning about in heavily laden utes threatening riders' life and limb. (At least I hope they're not :shock: ).

The bogans who are the real threat are a lost cause, but it's the multitudes in between, the "middle-class" viewer, the "casual bigot" who might have been swayed by a more mature segment to be a little more respectful of cyclists.

At the risk of being preachy and didactic, I think it's disappointing that those groovy young reporters themselves were so cavalier with what can be a deadly serious issue. This is a question of bigotry that often results in death and injury -- like gay-bashing. I can't imagine they would've dared produce such a jokey piece about homophobia. The fact they have been so lighthearted about cyclists suggest there's still a very long way to go to educate the masses.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby Red Rider » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:30 am

Good insight Scarfy. Their target market might be around there, but the people who watch it are definitely more broad than that. I know a whole range of different people who watch Catalyst. Most are scientists, researchers, or generally in a technical field. But the average moron driver definitely does not tend to watch Catalyst.

I thought it was pretty clever how they set the piece as something amusing but it was intentionally done to highlight the typical view of the general public, even prodding itself:
Dr Marilyn Johnson
But, Simon, I think this story is an example of one of the problems - how people don't take this issue seriously. With your dodgy re-enactment and your shouty silhouette man, I mean, this is a serious issue. People can get really hurt on the roads. But, for some reason, on social media, on any social forum, it seems OK to attack cyclists, when they're just people on their bikes trying to get where they need to go.


There are some interesting links on the website to some studies done:
Riding through red lights: the rate, characteristics and risk factors of non-compliant urban commuter cyclists.
Understanding the relationship between Drivers and Cyclists (pdf)
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby Aushiker » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:22 am



And there is a more recent study by Johnson et al published in 2013 ...

Johnson, M., Charlton, J. Oxley, J. & Newstead, S. (2013). Why do cyclists infringe at red lights? An investigation of Australian cyclists' reasons for red light infringement. Accident Analysis and Prevention, 50, 870-847.

and some related UK studies ...

Basford, Reid, Lester and Thomson (2002). Drivers' perceptions of cyclists (TRL Report TRL549). United Kingdom: TRL Limited.

Walker, I. (2009). Drivers overtaking bicyclists: Objective data on the effects of riding position, helmet use, vehicle type and apparent gender. Accident Analysis and Prevention, 39, 417-225. * See also Dr Walker's website for further details on this study

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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby jules21 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:33 pm

winstonw wrote:And I'd question the Qld stats saying cyclists cause ~45% of traffic accidents.

that seems too high. is it possible they were quoting cyclists' rate of being at-fault in all cycling accidents?

that would include crashes not involving another vehicle (i.e. loss of control). which naturally biases fault towards cyclists. but the rates of fault for car-bicycle collisions has always been quoted much higher towards car drivers failing to give way.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby rebilda » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:45 pm

Those remote control Drones were pretty cool!!

I am also very well enlightened to the dangers of contracting anti-biotic resistant STI's

The Cycle rage segment was a little .....light?
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby Scarfy96 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:53 pm

jules21 wrote:
winstonw wrote:And I'd question the Qld stats saying cyclists cause ~45% of traffic accidents.

that seems too high. is it possible they were quoting cyclists' rate of being at-fault in all cycling accidents?


They did go on to say that the majority of those 45% were children or men over the age of 80.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby rebilda » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:43 pm

Had a fantastic social ride this morning, with a group of riders off this forum, all riding Retro style bikes. It was a slowish ride over 60km (av only about 17kph).

We stuck mainly to cycle paths and cycle lanes, where practical, we all wore helmets and obeyed the road rules.

But, there HAD to be One! We had one (I want to say Moron in a Ute) motorist who screamed at us impatiently, as we crossed Parramatta Rd at a Traffic signalled, Pedestrian Crossing. His spray was all about Licences and Rego and how we should be paying for them. I saw RED!! we had a lady present and he was Nudging his ute forwards at us as he was trying to turn left out of a side street and across our line.
Ok, I just kind of lost it, and told him (in a language I knew he would understand) that I wasn't best pleased with his actions ( I only used Two words. Apologies If I offended anyone else present).
He was just completely out of line and over the top with his reaction to us crossing the road, but then I thought later, "Why would someone react this way?" It just lacked any rational reasoning. We were, after all, just crossing the road with the lights at a pedestrian crossing.

I blame the Media.

The Telegraph in Sydney has been waging war against Cyclists, Clover Moore, Blah blah blah..... for weeks. They are brain washing their readership into believing that if someone is on a bike, they are public enemy #1 and somehow taking advantage of the good Tax paying motorists out there.

I am now (ever so slightly) ashamed of how I reacted to this guy. He was misled by our news makers, that we are somehow disadvantaging him. It would be pointless to try and enter into a rational debate with a fired up motorist, as he speeds off with the window down, so telling him to just &#%! Off seemed like the right thing to do. What if he stopped the car and wanted to go toe to toe? Fine, I'll just give him a good Smack, too (don't think I wouldn't!). But what would this really achieve - A motorist who already has been misled by the Media and is on a bender about anyone on a bike, would just become a lifelong enemy of anyone on a bike. Effectively, all I did was lower myself to his level :oops:

If he would listen, I might ask him, Would his comment be different if I happened to be driving my Big Black 4WD Hilux? - Well of course it would, I pay for rego and a licence on that! - So, what is the difference?

My Bike is not a registrable Vehicle. I am also not required, by Law, to hold a licence to ride it on the road. So demanding I pay for these things is just ridiculous!

The Daily Telegraph is already facing numerous complaints in regard to their distortion of the truth surrounding their stories about Cyclists and Clover Moore's Vision for Cycle Paths into and around the City of Sydney. I am now ready to add another one. I want to complain to the Media Watchdog (or whatever they are called) because I am sick of this !!

People are out there screaming at each other about nothing and the Media is just throwing Petrol on the fire, instead of looking at the valid points.

My Suggestion, If you are screamed at because you don't pay Rego..... Just Laugh :D . Because they are just being ridiculous.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby TTar » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:02 am

rebilda wrote:
My Suggestion, If you are screamed at because you don't pay Rego..... Just Laugh :D . Because they are just being ridiculous.



My fantasy is sneaking up on them 20 seconds later when they're stuck in traffic, snatching their keys, flinging them into a nearby waterway and blowing them a very girly kiss before casually riding off.

I think you're absolutely right about media "licensing" this moron to yell abuse at you; he would probably be just as enraged at you if your Hilux was in his way, but there doesn't exist the endorsement of trashy media for him to be abusive. So he keeps it to himself.

He sounds like the sort who would take offence at hijabs as well, but as much as he might like to, he wouldn't yell at someone wearing a hijab because he doesn't have the sanction of the tabloids and shock jocks to do so. Wasn't ever thus, though. In the aftermath of 9/11 there was similar loaded "coverage" of Muslims and the funny way their womenfolk dressed in the same media and indeed there was all sorts of abuse being flung around and even physical assaults. It had become too serious for these lightweight outfits to handle and those provocative pieces stopped.

There's very obvious parallels with cyclists, of course, and I fear there will have to be a documented case of a "Moron in a ute" responsible for a death or two before certain media accept that they are the ones driving this hate.

You're not the only one who is "sick of this" reby, it's reaching a point where calls for a mass ride and rally to News Corp HQ would attract a lot of cyclists, I think. I like the idea of welding/cementing/securely fixing a Ghost Bike near the main entrance of the guilty media's buildings as a monument commemorating those who will die as a result of their "journalism".

Then watch them to see if they ignore this story (literally) on their doorstep and see how long it is before they have the bikes removed -- if they do it under the cover of darkness, who they get to remove them (Clover's council workers, for example?), what they do with the removed Ghost Bike etc.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby VRE » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:20 pm

TTar wrote:You're not the only one who is "sick of this" reby, it's reaching a point where calls for a mass ride and rally to News Corp HQ would attract a lot of cyclists, I think. I like the idea of welding/cementing/securely fixing a Ghost Bike near the main entrance of the guilty media's buildings as a monument commemorating those who will die as a result of their "journalism".

Then watch them to see if they ignore this story (literally) on their doorstep and see how long it is before they have the bikes removed -- if they do it under the cover of darkness, who they get to remove them (Clover's council workers, for example?), what they do with the removed Ghost Bike etc.

I like that idea :) . Ideally, it would be done on the same day at all the News Corp newspaper HQs in the different states, and with as many cyclists as possible.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby casual_cyclist » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:13 am

I liked it. It was funny and took a subtle dig at the dodgy bike recreations you might see on commercial tele. I thought it still got its message across while being entertaining. It also helped me understand why I don't hate all motorists because I see one run a red light or all cyclists because I see one run a red light or all pedestrians because I see one cross on the red... because I see all of these as actions of individuals and never extrapolate to the larger group.
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Re: Bike rage on Catalyst 26/9/13

Postby gorilla monsoon » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:47 pm

VRE wrote:
TTar wrote:You're not the only one who is "sick of this" reby, it's reaching a point where calls for a mass ride and rally to News Corp HQ would attract a lot of cyclists, I think. I like the idea of welding/cementing/securely fixing a Ghost Bike near the main entrance of the guilty media's buildings as a monument commemorating those who will die as a result of their "journalism".

Then watch them to see if they ignore this story (literally) on their doorstep and see how long it is before they have the bikes removed -- if they do it under the cover of darkness, who they get to remove them (Clover's council workers, for example?), what they do with the removed Ghost Bike etc.

I like that idea :) . Ideally, it would be done on the same day at all the News Corp newspaper HQs in the different states, and with as many cyclists as possible.


Yes, but the rival media (Fairfax) and radio and TV outlets need to be in on it as well. No sense making a story if there is no-one there to report it.
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