Dangerous times in London

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Dangerous times in London

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:50 pm

4 people in 8 days plus 3 fighting for their lives.
:-(
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... roads.html
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by BNA » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:37 pm

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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby Wakatuki » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:37 pm

Terrible.......The comments are not very confidence raising either.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby Ross » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:46 pm

5 deaths now :cry:
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby g-boaf » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:30 pm

UK streets weren't designed for cars either, they were designed for bicycles, walking and horse-drawn carriages, not motorcars.

Very, concerning. :( And to think London is supposedly a model with its bike schemes. :(
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:37 pm

I used to love commuting in London, it was a bit of a game... so much faster than most traffic. But I did have a couple of good impacts with cars. But young and dumb... I probably wouldn't enjoy it so much these days.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:33 pm

Cycling charity CTC said all bike riders were 'sickened by the continuing failure to protect cyclists', while British Cycling called for an 'urgent investigation' into the incidents.


I'd like to see more comments from out leading advocacy bodies along those lines.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:39 am

Seems nearly all of these incidents were with heavy vehicles.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby ldrcycles » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:46 am

This

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is the sort of response that's needed. The critical mass to get proper change is getting closer.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby Wakatuki » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:56 pm

Brilliant website below, the article on blinded by rear lights is good too, certainly made me think.
Here is a direct link to the SMIDSY information day that cyclists attended to see how HGV's see them http://mccraw.co.uk/sorry-mate-i-cant-see-blind-spot/
As a former HGV driver I never have had such a comanding and overall view of the road. I had the triple mirrors seen on the left side of the cab. Did not have the front view mirror. The worst spot was obvioulsy in the reversing, in particular with a box on the back. I drove when sensors and cameras were the stuff of dreams. I just had a computerised voice shouting this vehicle is reversing, followed by a sharp beep and some white noise and repeat.
If you adjust them and clean them it's amazing what you can see. Never an accident in the truck, ever, or a near miss. I drove at all hours of the day and night, shift dependent.
To the guy in the picture above, I want to buy you a beer.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby sogood » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:05 pm

Bound to happen with a dramatic uptake in cycling. Lots of less experienced cyclists on the road, lots of road users not used to sharing with large number of cyclists on the road, lots of risks.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby zero » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:08 pm

g-boaf wrote:UK streets weren't designed for cars either, they were designed for bicycles, walking and horse-drawn carriages, not motorcars.

Very, concerning. :( And to think London is supposedly a model with its bike schemes. :(


London is the ultimate example of why buying safety infrastructure from dulux and british paints, is nowhere near as effective as transplanting Dutch physical infrastructure and common sense urban space utilisation. People are kidding if they try to pretend that Amsterdam isn't anything other than a peer of London in terms of age, buildings and street spaces, because it most assuredly is. (Sydney has even less excuses imo).
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby sogood » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:21 pm

Infra-structure, but also importantly, behaviour of road users. Without decades of cycling use, it will always take time for users to "get used" to the new circumstance. This won't change overnight, irrespective of how many infrastructure changes were made.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby zero » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:43 pm

sogood wrote:Infra-structure, but also importantly, behaviour of road users. Without decades of cycling use, it will always take time for users to "get used" to the new circumstance. This won't change overnight, irrespective of how many infrastructure changes were made.


The reasons the general road toll has fallen.

- extensive traffic calming in suburbs.
- RBT
- dual carriageways and modern highway design code for volume routes.
- improvements in crashworthiness of cars.

The reasons the road toll hasn't improved further

- behaviour of motorists hasn't ever changed.
- government persistently allows max road GVM to increase
- motorists subsidising freight off rail.
- general taxation subsidising passengers off rail.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby ldrcycles » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:50 pm

You can put up all the physical barriers you want, it's treating a symptom, not the cause. Look at the recent spate of deaths in New York of pedestrians being hit by cars while they were walking on the footpath! Society has done a great job of convincing people that driving a car is as simple and safe as tying your shoelaces, when it clearly ISN'T. That has to change for anyone, cyclist or otherwise, to be genuinely safe on the road.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby Wakatuki » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:42 am

Ldrcycles, you are spot on.
Working in the industry everyone thinks more and more tech is the answer.
We have traffic auto stop. Car following cruise control that will take you from 110kph to 0 and back again. Auto high beam, rain sensing wipers, lane keep assist, blind spot monitor, self parking, automatic, driver fatigue monitor, moisturising climate control, heated and cooled leather seats, night vision, corner turning headlights, stability control, abs it goes on and on. All this basically does is remove a drivers need to be alert and in control of the vehicle at all times. I was on a test drive yesterday no sooner had we set off and his phone rang he took off his seatbelt to retrieve phone from pocket and then drove on the phone with no belt on!
The town stop assist is the worst IMO now you can merrily do anything else but drive whilst in traffic and not have a shunt.
Take away all nanny features including auto (medically/physically challenged only) that's most bad drivers off the road straight away. Then without stability control people would actually have to slow down for bad conditions and traffic Islands. We still need driver education and more fear of consequence double all fines if you ask me. Saw a RBT tv show the other day a junkie with no licence EVER caught driving under influence of drugs. He was caught the next day doing the same! How do you buy a car with no licence, madness! Rant over, for now! :)
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby sogood » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:56 am

ldrcycles wrote:You can put up all the physical barriers you want, it's treating a symptom, not the cause. Look at the recent spate of deaths in New York of pedestrians being hit by cars while they were walking on the footpath! Society has done a great job of convincing people that driving a car is as simple and safe as tying your shoelaces, when it clearly ISN'T. That has to change for anyone, cyclist or otherwise, to be genuinely safe on the road.

Whilst us cyclists on a cycling forum can put emphasis on drivers, we also need to recognise what we need to do. Just in recent weeks, 3 cyclist deaths were,
1) Bunch rider clipping the tail of a slowing/stopped car in front and slides into oncoming vehicle.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cyclist-dies- ... 2wgvq.html
2) Bunch rider hitting a rock on road.
http://www.theleader.com.au/story/19037 ... dney-road/
3) Touring cyclist in Alice Springs hit in the dark, didn't wear high-vis gear nor tail light.
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2013/1 ... tnews.html

And a recent report of doubling in cycling death tolls.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/19812099/nsw ... two-years/
True that a good portion were caused by motor vehicle drivers, but we as cyclists, especially those new to the road, can do a lot to mitigate those risks and potentially avoid many of those accidents.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:08 am

That's true and don't get me wrong, i'll get angry about people being idiots on bikes too, but on average (going off last year's figures) you're looking at nearly 25 people every week being killed in and by cars. As we all know, the majority of cyclists are also drivers, so when the appropriate culture and attitudes develop for safe driving, I would expect it to flow through to cycling as well.

40 Australian soldiers have been killed during the war in Afghanistan. More people are killed on Australian roads EVERY FORTNIGHT. That is a sick joke.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby sogood » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:23 am

ldrcycles wrote:40 Australian soldiers have been killed during the war in Afghanistan. More people are killed on Australian roads EVERY FORTNIGHT. That is a sick joke.

Agree. Society isn't always logical. Look at the number of gun deaths in the US too. It's all a question of what the higher beings and media want us to focus on...
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby herzog » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:31 am

zero wrote:The reasons the road toll hasn't improved further

- behaviour of motorists hasn't ever changed.
- government persistently allows max road GVM to increase
- motorists subsidising freight off rail.
- general taxation subsidising passengers off rail.


And of course, texting behind the wheel, which has exploded since the arrival of the smartphone in the last few years.

This is the new drink driving.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby il padrone » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:45 am

sogood wrote:True that a good portion were caused by motor vehicle drivers, but we as cyclists, especially those new to the road, can do a lot to mitigate those risks and potentially avoid many of those accidents.

Those "new to the road" are by definition, less equipped to "do a lot" as they have not developed the level of cyclecraft to do so. Hence we come back to equipment and facilities. I don't subscribe to the 'blame the victim' mentality that brought us MHL. Certainly there is a need for simple law-abiding, but on top of that a real effort to deal with the deaths would see greater responsibility and enforcement placed upon the real hazard - the drivers of the two-tonne lumps of metal. Also a greater focus on facilities that advance and encourage cycling, and discourage driving - at least in our urban inner suburbs.

Greater education and focus on safe road skills all round would be a great help as well. The coroner's call for a complete ban on all mobile phones in vehicles is a good thing as well.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby Wakatuki » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:55 am

herzog wrote:And of course, texting behind the wheel, which has exploded since the arrival of the smartphone in the last few years.

This is the new drink driving.

+1
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby il padrone » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:57 pm

sogood wrote:3) Touring cyclist in Alice Springs hit in the dark, didn't wear high-vis gear nor tail light.
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2013/1 ... tnews.html

May not have had a rear light.

Police say they are still trying to establish if the woman had a rear light on her bicycle.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby trailgumby » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:25 pm

herzog wrote:
zero wrote:The reasons the road toll hasn't improved further

- behaviour of motorists hasn't ever changed.
- government persistently allows max road GVM to increase
- motorists subsidising freight off rail.
- general taxation subsidising passengers off rail.


And of course, texting behind the wheel, which has exploded since the arrival of the smartphone in the last few years.

This is the new drink driving.

+ 2 x 10^6
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby Ross » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:45 am

Another cycling death in London. :(

It is the 14th cyclist fatality of 2013, equalling the number of cyclists who were killed on the capital's roads in 2012.

Six cyclists have been killed in London in the past two weeks, all incidents involved either heavy good vehicles or buses/coaches.

The cyclist, said to be in their 60s, collided with the lorry just after midday as it turned left at the junction between Camberwell Road and Albany Street. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... WTg9OKh.99
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Re: Dangerous times in London

Postby sogood » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:56 am

Very unfortunate but also very common, even here in Sydney. I am forever worried for all those cyclists who illegally filter b/n moving motor vehicles and between the curb and a vehicle with a left turning indicator light on. One small move and it'll be history. Cycling is great for health and the environment, but riding defensive is a must. Take control of one's own risks and not let others master over it.
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