Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly


Scott_C
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby Scott_C » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:39 am

Following the death of a cyclist in a crash suspected to be due to a pothole.

https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/co ... s/3198822/

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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:15 pm

I snapped this one on my ride this morning.

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BJL
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby BJL » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:04 pm

We've had the good, the bad and some ugly, now for the non existent!

This is the Lilydale - Warburton rail trail in Mt Evelyn, Victoria. Legally, you have to dismount your bike and walk it across the road. Yet you can ride your bike across the next intersection on York Rd and the one following that, a pedestrian crossing on Monbulk Rd. But further on at Milgrove, you once again have to get off and walk your bike across. Only pointing this out because it happens all over the place on many shared paths. (And the first time I've tried posting an image on here)

P.S. What the hell is with the pedestrian button at light level? Didn't notice it until I looked at the photo :shock:
(Maybe they ordered extra buttons instead of bicycle lights)

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Cyclophiliac
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby Cyclophiliac » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:52 pm

I wish Australia had a few more of these, but unless our cycling culture changes beyond recognition, I can't see it occurring. I took this photo on the 6th, while in southern France (the Pyrenees):
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Last edited by Cyclophiliac on Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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trailgumby
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby trailgumby » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:32 pm

BJL wrote:P.S. What the hell is with the pedestrian button at light level? Didn't notice it until I looked at the photo :shock:
(Maybe they ordered extra buttons instead of bicycle lights)

Tallbikes? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby trailgumby » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:34 pm

Cyclophiliac wrote:I wish Australia had a few more of these, but unless our cycling culture changes beyond recognition, I can't see it occurring. I took this photo on the 6th, while in southern France (the Pyrenees):
Image

Might need to change your privacy settings - not displaying for me :( g

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby human909 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:59 am

trailgumby wrote:
BJL wrote:P.S. What the hell is with the pedestrian button at light level? Didn't notice it until I looked at the photo :shock:
(Maybe they ordered extra buttons instead of bicycle lights)

Tallbikes? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Horse riders! :mrgreen:

(No, I'm not kidding that would be the actual reason. I've seen plenty on that trail.)

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby BJL » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:14 pm

human909 wrote:
trailgumby wrote:
BJL wrote:P.S. What the hell is with the pedestrian button at light level? Didn't notice it until I looked at the photo :shock:
(Maybe they ordered extra buttons instead of bicycle lights)

Tallbikes? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Horse riders! :mrgreen:

(No, I'm not kidding that would be the actual reason. I've seen plenty on that trail.)


Of course, that would be it. Just never noticed it before. :oops:

Cyclophiliac
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby Cyclophiliac » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:31 pm

trailgumby wrote:
Cyclophiliac wrote:I wish Australia had a few more of these, but unless our cycling culture changes beyond recognition, I can't see it occurring. I took this photo on the 6th, while in southern France (the Pyrenees):
Image

Might need to change your privacy settings - not displaying for me :( g

Sorry, I don't know why: I've used sites.google.com to host images for years, and never had a problem with others not seeing it. I sent you a PM, as I modified the URL slightly, so let me know if that worked for you.

stevenaaus
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby stevenaaus » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:24 pm

Yeah, shows ok for me.

That 1.5m sign is ok, but on Mt Tamborine they have these comical things with riders tipping their hats like clowns %(. It's not a joking matter - have a respectful sign or nothing.

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby coyote » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:09 pm

human909 wrote:
trailgumby wrote:
BJL wrote:P.S. What the hell is with the pedestrian button at light level? Didn't notice it until I looked at the photo :shock:
(Maybe they ordered extra buttons instead of bicycle lights)

Tallbikes? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Horse riders! :mrgreen:

(No, I'm not kidding that would be the actual reason. I've seen plenty on that trail.)


Do horse riders have to stop and clean up any mess that their horses make along the trail?

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trailgumby
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby trailgumby » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:24 pm

coyote wrote:Do horse riders have to stop and clean up any mess that their horses make along the trail?

Genrally, no.

It's one of the reasons I *never* use a drink bottle mount below the downtube.

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby Abby » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:14 pm

stevenaaus wrote:Yeah, shows ok for me.

That 1.5m sign is ok, but on Mt Tamborine they have these comical things with riders tipping their hats like clowns %(. It's not a joking matter - have a respectful sign or nothing.


I think the point of those is that it catches people's attention as its a bit different - hence the message is more likely to be seen and digested... :-)
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby BJL » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:11 pm

coyote wrote:
human909 wrote:
trailgumby wrote:Tallbikes? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Horse riders! :mrgreen:

(No, I'm not kidding that would be the actual reason. I've seen plenty on that trail.)


Do horse riders have to stop and clean up any mess that their horses make along the trail?


And while we're on the subject, do horse riders have to dismount and walk their horses across the crossing?

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baabaa
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby baabaa » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:46 pm

Doubt any rule from the Australian Road Rules would decide against the riders call.
Even the most traffic tolerant horse can get badly spooked from the various noises that come from a modern vehicle so the rider could choose what is best that animal, walk or ride. Also doubt if I will ever own another horse but would prefer a much, much wider set of white lines if I was riding across in that spot.

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby antigee » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:49 pm

ImageIMG_20170624_155720 by Robert Jones, on Flickr

section on Box Hill to Ringwood Railtrail shared path - like the warning - hate the faux give way lines - what's that all about? My reading of the road rules is vehicles entering and exiting premises must give way when crossing the footpath - incidentally 20m away is a road with a raised crossing and give way to cyclists/peds signs for vehicles turning into the road

Edit new to Flickr think set privacy correct let me know if not working thx

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby Arbuckle23 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:48 pm

Ignoring the lines. One reason I hate shared paths with high fences etc. Just a collision waiting to happen.

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby Scott_C » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:43 pm

antigee wrote:ImageIMG_20170624_155720 by Robert Jones, on Flickr

section on Box Hill to Ringwood Railtrail shared path - like the warning - hate the faux give way lines - what's that all about? My reading of the road rules is vehicles entering and exiting premises must give way when crossing the footpath - incidentally 20m away is a road with a raised crossing and give way to cyclists/peds signs for vehicles turning into the road


Your reading of the Road Rules is correct but the painted give-way lines may override the general requirement for vehicles to give way. I would be talking to the local council about both the path markings and the height and location of the fence as they are both subject to authorisation by the council and I don't believe the council is allowed to authorise line markings that contradict a road rule without VicRoads' permission.

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby jasonc » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:48 pm

Scott_C wrote:
antigee wrote:ImageIMG_20170624_155720 by Robert Jones, on Flickr

section on Box Hill to Ringwood Railtrail shared path - like the warning - hate the faux give way lines - what's that all about? My reading of the road rules is vehicles entering and exiting premises must give way when crossing the footpath - incidentally 20m away is a road with a raised crossing and give way to cyclists/peds signs for vehicles turning into the road


Your reading of the Road Rules is correct but the painted give-way lines may override the general requirement for vehicles to give way. I would be talking to the local council about both the path markings and the height and location of the fence as they are both subject to authorisation by the council and I don't believe the council is allowed to authorise line markings that contradict a road rule without VicRoads' permission.

That is private property. No way does that overule. They have painted those lines in hope. A word to the council will fix it
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby antigee » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:00 pm

my understanding is VicRoads are overseeing the project - already sent an email to the address that is given on the project website:

to: eastern_projects@roads.vic.gov.au
date: Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:17 PM
subject: Boxhill Ringwood Railtrail Molan St markings

Pleased to see this route progressing - quick question about the markings on the shared path in Molan St - entrance to business premises rear of number 2 Newman Street

Bit puzzled by what appear to be a sort of giveway line for users of the shared path - though I do understand that giving way to vehicles entering and exiting the premises is the safest option using markings in this way seems to contradict the concept of the trail and the road rules concept that vehicles entering/exiting premises give way to users on the footway - my feeling is that the dashed lines should be removed and the driveway marked in green paint with cyclist and pedestrian overlays as is normal at road junctions and enforcing the concept that vehicles should be giving way to trail users - picture is a couple of weeks old and work is ongoing so maybe this has been corrrected already?

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby Scott_C » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:17 pm

jasonc wrote:That is private property. No way does that overule. They have painted those lines in hope. A word to the council will fix it


Under Victorian Road Rule 315 the Give Way lines have effect as they are substantial similar to the give way lines defined in the Regulations and they are painted on a road-related area, they do not need to have been legally installed in order for them to have effect. If you are involved in a collision here and haven't given way there is every chance that you will be found legally liable.

As far as I can tell the Victorian Road Safety Rules do not definitively indicate whether a traffic control device overrides a general rule but I know that in WA complying with traffic signs overrides the need to comply with a contradictory regulation (WA Road Traffic Code Rule 300).

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby bychosis » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:06 pm

antigee wrote:ImageIMG_20170624_155720 by Robert Jones, on Flickr

section on Box Hill to Ringwood Railtrail shared path - like the warning - hate the faux give way lines - what's that all about? My reading of the road rules is vehicles entering and exiting premises must give way when crossing the footpath - incidentally 20m away is a road with a raised crossing and give way to cyclists/peds signs for vehicles turning into the road

Edit new to Flickr think set privacy correct let me know if not working thx


Locally they go one better and install giveway signs as well, normally 2 of them too.
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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby BJL » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:13 pm

Scott_C wrote:
jasonc wrote:That is private property. No way does that overule. They have painted those lines in hope. A word to the council will fix it


Under Victorian Road Rule 315 the Give Way lines have effect as they are substantial similar to the give way lines defined in the Regulations and they are painted on a road-related area, they do not need to have been legally installed in order for them to have effect. If you are involved in a collision here and haven't given way there is every chance that you will be found legally liable.


So anyone can paint anything on the roads as long as it complies with road marking standards and road users are legally liable to obey? So the 'No Cyclists' sign some turd put up at The Basin a while ago was legally enforceable? :shock:

The real issue though is the requirement for traffic entering and leaving private property to give way to pedestrians. In practice though, it's the complete opposite as many property owners erect fences or plant trees or hedges which completely obstructs the view of the footpath meaning that any vehicle leaving the property is completely over the footpath before the driver can even see the footpath. It should be illegal for property owners to erect fences or otherwise obstruct the view of a footpath from a driveway. There are specific requirements for fence height, etc for properties on street corners and similar laws should be enforced for all property owners.

A similar situation exists on Whitehall St, Footscray. Ever ridden along the shared path there? A death trap if I ever saw one. Then there's Stud Rd at the Bayswater end. VicMotorists had the opportunity to fix this when they upgraded the road but did they? Nope, let's just leave the shared path to one side right up against properties where it crosses a bunch of driveways and visibility is an issue.

This happens ANYWHERE where they turn a footpath into a shared path and property owners have either built right up to the footpath or obstructed the view of the footpath with fencing / etc.

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Re: Cycling related signs - good/bad/ugly

Postby BJL » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:17 pm

bychosis wrote:
antigee wrote:ImageIMG_20170624_155720 by Robert Jones, on Flickr

section on Box Hill to Ringwood Railtrail shared path - like the warning - hate the faux give way lines - what's that all about? My reading of the road rules is vehicles entering and exiting premises must give way when crossing the footpath - incidentally 20m away is a road with a raised crossing and give way to cyclists/peds signs for vehicles turning into the road

Edit new to Flickr think set privacy correct let me know if not working thx


Locally they go one better and install giveway signs as well, normally 2 of them too.


Maybe they should extend the dotted 'giveway' lines across Molan St and give themselves priority over all other traffic while they're at it. I bet that wouldn't go down so well.

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