Princes Highway bike lanes

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Princes Highway bike lanes

Postby outnabike » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:48 pm

I was coming through Dandenong as it has a bike lane but found the thing to be too narrow for cars and a bike.There is enough room but a cyclist has to stay well left in the lane.Still ok .
These pics are from google just for interest. I found some drivers still came way too close.
Image

Then there is the disappearing bike lane a bit back from that top pic. The bike lane just featherers out , and right on a bend in the road.
They must have a narrower section just there, so the cyclist has to do a disappearing trick.
Image

So suddenly you find yourself in no bike lane and have to get out into the middle. I saw one bike have to stop and wait for the traffic to clear, then proceed, but stayed left.
I stayed in the centre of the lane and made the cars go around. I was tooted for that odd 50 metres and then the motorists too saw the bike lane start again.
It doesn't exactly make a bloke want to ride through there.
Image
outnabike
 
Posts: 717
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

by BNA » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:05 pm

BNA
 

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby il padrone » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:05 pm

Your first photo is not a bike lane at all. Rather it is what Vicroads calls a "widened kerb-side lane". The logo on the road has no legal standing but is simply an advisory symbol to show that a bike and a car might be able to share the one lane at the same time. Happily many (some) drivers tend to also regard these as some sort of bike lane and will often stay further to the right.

The disappearing lane is always a lousy approach. So it reappears further down the road?
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18178
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby greyhoundtom » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:15 pm

There are bike lane signs along that section, in fact there is one just prior to the bike lane ending telling you just that.

However to ride that section of the Princess Highway at certain times of the day in relative safety you need to be lit up like a Christmas tree with every light flashing as it is bogan country with every driver in a real hurry. :cry:
User avatar
greyhoundtom
 
Posts: 2514
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:28 am
Location: Narre Warren, Victoria

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby wellington_street » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:08 pm

PRINCES not Princess.
wellington_street
 
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby Duck! » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:13 pm

wellington_street wrote:PRINCES not Princess.

Thank you. :)
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
Duck!
Expert
 
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby greyhoundtom » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:11 am

wellington_street wrote:PRINCES not Princess.

Nah........to the locals its definitely Princess. :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
greyhoundtom
 
Posts: 2514
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:28 am
Location: Narre Warren, Victoria

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby outnabike » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:30 am

il padrone wrote:Your first photo is not a bike lane at all. Rather it is what Vicroads calls a "widened kerb-side lane". The logo on the road has no legal standing but is simply an advisory symbol to show that a bike and a car might be able to share the one lane at the same time. Happily many (some) drivers tend to also regard these as some sort of bike lane and will often stay further to the right.

The disappearing lane is always a lousy approach. So it reappears further down the road?


Yes il padrone, another km or so, but it cuts out at bridges and the overpass which goes over the free way to wards Hallam.
The top pic shows a continuance.
outnabike
 
Posts: 717
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby outnabike » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:46 am

http://www.princess.com/ These idiots can't spell either. :D
outnabike
 
Posts: 717
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby outnabike » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:27 am

I rode right through the centre of Dandenong as it a 40 zone right through.All the pics are off google maps.

Image
Thes cars are right where the bike lane is. How the didn't get a ticket that day is a wonder.

Image

Bike lane and markings are fairly intermittent.This is near the Dandy Creek
Image

Where the marks are, the cars do take notice.
Image
outnabike
 
Posts: 717
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby wellington_street » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:33 am

^ There is nothing wrong with parking on a 3-lane highway unless there are signs prohibiting parking.

outnabike wrote:http://www.princess.com/ These idiots can't spell either. :D


?

Princess:
Image

Princes:
Image
wellington_street
 
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby wellington_street » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:16 pm

Sorry to hijack this thread; the constant misspelling of this highway name really annoys me. Will leave it there.
wellington_street
 
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby greyhoundtom » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:30 pm

The Prince's Highway as a named route came into being when pre-existing roads were renamed ‘Prince's Highway’ after the visit to Australia in 1920 of the Prince of Wales (later to become King Edward VIII and, after abdicating, the Duke of Windsor).
The original submissions in January 1920 were in order for the Prince to have the opportunity during his visit to make the trip from Melbourne to Sydney overland along the route. Different routes were considered, including the inland route via Yass. This idea never came to fruition, due partly to the limited amount of time and the cost to construct the road to a suitable standard for him to undertake the trip. The Prince did, however, give his permission for the naming.


So for the spelling to be correct it needs to be The Prince's Highway not The Princes Highway.

I will immediately organise to take up a petition to have all the signs along the whole route changed to the correct spelling NOT...... :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
greyhoundtom
 
Posts: 2514
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:28 am
Location: Narre Warren, Victoria

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:47 pm

As far as I know, I believe standard practice on naming of places, and I'd guess rivers, roads, mountains etc, is to drop the apostrophe. Eg. St Georges Road.

Edited for grammatic accuracy. :wink:
Last edited by il padrone on Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18178
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby wellington_street » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:57 pm

Yes, apostrophes were dropped from the possessive form of geographic place names (including roads) in 1943 (for NSW, similar timeframe for other states too).

Flinders and Collins are named after people though, they aren't possessive form names.

I'm sorry, I can't help myself
wellington_street
 
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:01 pm

outnabike wrote:I rode right through the centre of Dandenong as it a 40 zone right through.All the pics are off google maps......

......Where the marks are, the cars do take notice.

Like I said earlier, those symbols on the road are not the symbol for a bike lane. They indicate a wide kerbside lane - allegedly more room for cyclists* - nothing else.

Some information here, and more here (including the road symbol). Note that despite this statement:

Wide Kerbside Lane Markings
The purpose of installing wide kerbside lane markings is to indicate to motorists and cyclists that an on-road bicycle facility has been provided along the particular length of road


.....the term wide kerbside lane is not mentioned anywhere in the Victorian Road Rules - what I mean by it having no legal standing. Motorists can ignore it completely at their pleasure.

Belmore Rd, Balwyn - not a bike lane
Image




* I've never been sure how this concept applies here at the top of Nicholson St. :? Definitely not a bike lane :roll:
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18178
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby wellington_street » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:22 pm

il padrone wrote:Belmore Rd, Balwyn - not a bike lane
Image


Advice to Dickroads: If you can't even fit the bicycle symbol inside the lane, it's not wide enough to be a lane. Ridiculous.

il padrone wrote:* I've never been sure how this concept applies here at the top of Nicholson St. :? Definitely not a bike lane :roll:


This is pure genius - if those stupid traffic calming devices weren't there you'd have quite a good cycle lane!
wellington_street
 
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:39 pm

Yeah, but like I was saying, neither of these are bike lanes at all. Just the road lane is wider (allegedly).
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18178
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby mick243 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:42 pm

Yep, to legally be a "bike lane" there are requirements in minimum width, line marking, symbols and signage. If it's not all up to scratch it's not a bike lane.

None of the pictures above are of "bike lanes"
mick243
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:44 am

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby human909 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:52 pm

mick243 wrote:Yep, to legally be a "bike lane" there are requirements in minimum width, line marking, symbols and signage. If it's not all up to scratch it's not a bike lane


Are you sure that this is the case regarding minimum width? (I'm inquisitive rather than doubtful.)

The reason why I ask is that I have recently observed that Sydney Rd's woefully inadequate "Bike Lane" is infact a signed as a legal bike lane. Yet it is probably about 300mm wide or 600mm if you include the unridable bluestone. (Sydney Rd, Brunswick, Victoria)
human909
 
Posts: 4728
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 am

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:02 pm

Yes, there is a Vicroads recommended standard, often ignored. The road rules only require the signs to indicate the start of the lane.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18178
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby jonbays » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:01 am

wellington_street wrote:Sorry to hijack this thread; the constant misspelling of this highway name really annoys me. Will leave it there.


Annoys me too. FFS Prince Charles is not a Princess is he?
User avatar
jonbays
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:14 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby Summernight » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:27 am

jonbays wrote:
wellington_street wrote:Sorry to hijack this thread; the constant misspelling of this highway name really annoys me. Will leave it there.


Annoys me too. FFS Prince Charles is not a Princess is he?


No comment... :mrgreen:
User avatar
Summernight
 
Posts: 1513
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:40 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby Xplora » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:44 am

Case in point - these would have be removed in Queensland because they wouldn't be acceptable under a 1m passing gap regime. The disappearing lane is bad, the fact that there is no wobble space is utterly unacceptable. :( I ride a lot and I couldn't guarantee I wouldn't move into the "car lane" trying to do a headcheck. It's a solution looking for a problem. Put a big old bike in the middle of the left hand lane and call it done!
Xplora
 
Posts: 5603
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm
Location: TL;DR

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby wellington_street » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:10 pm

Xplora wrote:It's a solution looking for a problem. Put a big old bike in the middle of the left hand lane and call it done!


Agree completely.

I would never recommend what Vicroads has done.
wellington_street
 
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: Princess highway bike lanes

Postby ironhanglider » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:28 pm

Xplora wrote:Case in point - these would have be removed in Queensland because they wouldn't be acceptable under a 1m passing gap regime. The disappearing lane is bad, the fact that there is no wobble space is utterly unacceptable. :( I ride a lot and I couldn't guarantee I wouldn't move into the "car lane" trying to do a headcheck. It's a solution looking for a problem. Put a big old bike in the middle of the left hand lane and call it done!


I agree, a big bike symbol in the middle of the left lane. Maybe a sign to indicate that cars may share the bike lane at 30km/h. :twisted:

Cheers,

Cameron
ironhanglider
 
Posts: 1053
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:44 pm
Location: Bruce, ACT

Next

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AndyRevill, bagathon, grimbo, jc2153, jules21, MattyP, sparco



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter