open topic, for anything cycling related.
Good price and specs seem to be very good! I've recently busted my wheels, so am in the market for new ones... These seem fairly comparable in almost all respects to the Dura-Ace C50's, which I was looking at getting as a replacement - only around $550 cheaper.
So, four questions:
1. One of the reasons I like the Dura-Ace C50's is that they're described/reviewed everywhere as being bomb-proof (I've now broken three wheel sets in my time). The Hadron has more spokes than C50's, but many other design aspects make a strong durable wheel. How does the durability of this wheel compare to the C50's? Have you done any testing?
2. Where does the stiffness of these wheels sit amongst other similar wheels in the market? As an 87kg crit racer (and sprinter), I'm after wheels without much flex.
3. Where does the standard hub quality sit amongst similar manufacturers in the market? 105 5700 / Ultegra 6800 / Dura Ace 9000 / DT 180 / DT 240 / Chris King R45 or other?
4. How does the Swiss Side warranty work? If my wheels break, do I have to send them back to the UK? A few years ago, I purchased $500 wheels online and the cost to send them back for warranty (roughly $300 from memory) made it not worthwhile and I just had to bin the wheels and start again!! Will there be local service agreements so that costly shipping for warranties isn't required?
Hope the pricing is a pleasant surprise for all - very attractive and the price of $1094 is delivered to Australia.
I am meeting Swiss Side soon to work on the BNA VIP test program and provide some results, so hopefully the final price and spec will now help forum members who expressed interest to review know whether they will jump onboard.
So just to check. Is it 1094 for people who signed up for the vip test program or is that the normal retail price?
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$1094 is the regular price.
When I meet with Swiss Side we will finalise these details and of course everyone who expressed interest and is short-listed can then decide.
Plus import duties one would guess also? Unless they're setting up an Aus (on paper) division etc to sell to aus? Ie. charge GST.
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Shipping is included in that price, but the cost without shipping puts them just over the import duty price. I think they may sell a few more pairs if they could sneak just under the $1000 mark
The price is better than I expected. I wonder how much to purchase individually. I would find it easier to get ministerial approval that way.
Great questions. Answers are as follows:
1. The durability of the Hadron will be excellent. We have been testing ‘the mules’ since mid 2012 and they are great. No issues to report. You can find some info on our prototype testing procedures for the Hadron here: http://www.swissside.com/653 .
The components in the Hadron are all absolute top quality. Yes indeed the Hadron has more spokes than the C50. We have done this for two reasons. A). To accommodate heavier riders and B). To increase stiffness. Note that we use the best spoke on the market for the Hadron- the Sapim CX-Ray. This is not only the best aero performer but the most durable spoke available. Via the link above, we have also published the fatigue life data of this spoke.
2. The Hadron is above the norm in terms of stiffness compared to typical road wheels. This comes from the wide rim design (23mm) but also from the spoke count. However we have deliberately not made the Hadron overly stiff for the reason that it is intended also for time trial and triathlon use where riders can be on the road for a number of hours. We would expect the C50’s to be a stiffer wheel as it has a structural carbon cover. (We can’t be sure though as we haven’t tested it). This is also one of the reasons Shimano can have a reduced the spoke count on this wheel. The Hadron has a non-structural carbon cover. Aerodynamically however, the Hadron is guaranteed in a completely different league.
3. We have been investing a great deal of development into our hubs in the last two years in terms of both geometry (for spoke tension optimization) and function. The quality and performance of our hubs is excellent and absolutely comparable to our competitors. Swiss Side hubs are manufactured out of the same facility as a number of the ‘big brands’. We use top quality, stainless steel Enduro ‘sealed for life’ cartridge bearings, as standard in all our wheels.
4. Regarding warranty issues, we have local service facilities in Australia so no need to ever send wheels back to Europe. We also want to say that we pride ourselves on our customer service and warranty policy. If you have a problem, we’re there to help. You’ll get a lightning quick response from us and we’ll make sure it gets fixed or replaced as quickly as possible. It’s as simple as that.
Hey swissside: something important, please, please use brass nipples in these wheels. The alloy nipples in my heidis are already seized on a few of the rear spokes after about 3000km - my mechanic wasn't able to get the wheel to run completely true as a result.
It is a shame because the hubs and rims are in 100% condition, it is just the nipples that are a problem.
Thanks for the replies - although, I'm a little concerned that the stiffness might not be that high?! This is fairly critical for a heavy sprinter!
George-bob I believe it was specified somewhere that brass nipples where used? Just can't put my finger on it...
Hope so! It is a really good set of wheels, let down by alloy nipples. The hubs roll beautifully and the wheels are super stiff.
All our wheels are now exclusively built with blackened brass Sapim secure lock nipples.
This afternoon I caught up with George Cant, co-founder of Swiss Side on the northern beaches in Sydney (in between the patches of rain) and saw the first ever Hadron wheelset (yes it is real!) This is a pre-production model.
Aside from taking a good look at the wheels (while not taking them with me), it was also a good chance to finalise the selection for the VIP TESTER program, and in a short time I know there will be some pretty happy members, so stay tuned.
Looks good. Is the bulging out noticeable as it moves from the braking surface?
Good question. The buldge, in my view, is not awkward or 'rude'.
With the design it is obviously not a classic V profile and the wheels are 'fatter' but the bulge is subtle.
Just letting this slip out quietly now the candidates for the VIP Test program have been selected and the invite process is now starting. The selection was based on a few factors including demographics (as provided by each person who registered interest) as well as the interest and participation. In Australia there are 5 slots allocated (five wheelsets) and details will be provided by Swiss Side for each person invited.
Swiss-side, quick question, do you have any data about how these compare aerodynamically to, say, zipp 808's?
I would be buying these for my TT bike, so aerodynamics are key for me, weight is less of an issue.
Hi there george-bob. Yes indeed we have tested the Zipp 808 in the wind tunnel together with many more of the leading brand aero wheels. The Hadron still sits at the top of the leader board of all the wheels tested. Actually we were on the wind tunnel again yesterday confirming the aero performance of the production wheels, as well as testing some more big brand competitor aero wheels and finally doing some very interesting tyre testing. We can confirm that all the testing confirms that the Hadron is currently still the best wheel we have tested in the wind tunnel. We will be releasing an interesting report in the coming weeks with the results of this testing as well as some key information for everyone about aerodynamics and tyres.
It will be interesting to see what effect tyres have on the overall aerodynamics of the wheel/tyre combination.
Swiss Side are running an independent promotion to win a Hadron wheelset as well.
Participation is either signing up to their email newsletter or by 'Liking' swiss side on facebook and then commenting and tagging 3 friends.
This is the newsletter approach
And this is the link to their facebook where you can follow the details.
Another couple questions I was thinking about this morning:
- Do the wheels have pinned or welded joints?
- Are they supplied with the spacer for 10sp cassettes?
To answer your questions:
- The alu section of the rim is built with a welded joint.
- We supply all wheels with a spacer for 10sp cassettes.
An update, congratulations to each person who has become a VIP tester - while I won't announce the names, the people who are takling part can chose whether they wish to share this info.
Swiss Side also let me know that their pre-orders are going well and look like it will be sold out soon.
And... a big task because the questions in this thread were clever and likewise the swiss side responses so good, I have structured the content into a BNA article which will be a nice and ordered version of this forum thread: A Rare Insight into Wheelset Design: Swiss Side Hadron
This is George Cant when I caught up and checked out the pre-production Hadron wheelset. I didn't get to ride them as I would probably have to start competing and winning a few races to be worthy.
I hope they got some people who can "really test" the toughness of these wheels .
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