Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

One of our favourite cycling companies is Swiss Side; the company founders are both Aussies (one based in Switzerland). In Iaunching the company they decided to go direct-to-customer (a modern retail approach) and in my experience they have always taken on product feedback and displayed professionalism and competence.

Some time back I discussed the possibilities of community participation with them. With the development of their new hybrid alu-carbon clincher, they have invited and involved the cycling community to help shape this new wheelset (we shared via twitter and facebook) and though the results are in, you can still participate in the survey for a chance to win a set of Hadrons. Material choices for the rim and depth have been signed-off and when it comes to graphics and a decision for or against ceramic bearings it will go out once again to the community.

Involvement in actual cycling gear development is a rare opportunity and for the BNA community I will be able to secure some brand new Swiss Side Hadron wheelsets for VIP Testers. Similar to Google Glass, the Hadron wheelset will be available to a select handful of forum members at a special price for VIP testers. It means that VIP Testers will get the hybrid alu-carbon clincher wheelset at a much lower price when the wheels are released to market and in return will provide feedback.


So how will it work, well two ways:
Firstly this thread is open to all to discuss and means that you have the chance to field wheelset, design and engineering questions directly to George Cant and Jean-Paul Ballard of Swiss Side.

Secondly, register your interest here to be a VIP tester. You will then be eligible and then Swiss Side will review the candidates and their participation in this thread and invite the best suited to be a VIP tester.



Here are a couple of basics. The Hadron will be a Hybrid Aluminium Carbon Clincher, 62.5mm deep profile rim, with 23mm wide braking surface while the carbon fibre rim will 'bulge' to 27mm with the toroidial profile. The top-end hubs from current Swiss Side wheels will be used and the community will be involved to discuss whether to go for ceramic bearings or steel. There are regular updates on the website

So now you have the opportunity to get those wheelset questions answered from the experts and also be in with a rare chance of qualifying as a VIP Tester.

Interested - how do we formally register interest?

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems majority of the gear tests are implemented in Sydney/Melbourne?

Wonder if the wheel set test can be done in Brisbane - where the road condition in my opinion is not as smooth as in Melbourne.

I am quite happy to get involved into the test because I am actually looking at a new wheel set I can use on daily basis.

The VIP tester program is seperate from BNA reviews and there is no location prerequisite. Lucky7, you have just registered your interest and as this thread develops the fellows from Swiss Side will get a feel for the level of interest from the participants and fit.

I have a few questions of my own as well as I have been reading up on their wind tunnel results and will jump in soon.

could be an intersting test depends on the estiamted costs

To make it easier we will shortly set up a registration option to register interest (non-binding). Swiss Side will still rely on forum participation and involvement to select the VIPs.

I am interested in participating. I am about 105kg and am doing 350-500 km a week so I will be able to give the wheels a good workout!
Andrew

At 90 odd kilo's and a 'sprinter' type rider, I'm always interested to try out new wheels! Alu/Carbon clinchers are my preferred wheel type as I don't trust full carbon clinchers on long, fast descents and I also like the positive feeling of Al brake tracks.

I race criteriums in B-Grade as well as do longer training rides and some hills.

As above, costs would be a factor!

Hi All, thanks for your interest in participating in this VIP Hadron wheel set testing program. Our registration page will be online shortly.
Over the coming weeks we'll be sharing the results of our CFD and wind tunnel tests and as AUbicycles mentioned we'll also be looking for public input on the wheel graphics and other details.
We're excited to work with BNA and their forum community on the development and launch of this new aero wheel set.
Feel free to get in touch and we'll be happy to answer any questions or queries.

Survey done.

Wouldn't mind being involved, pretty unique opportunity!

Much like Andrew I do a couple of kms a week and am of the size that likes to stress test things! I'm 6'4 and around $1.25.


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I am interested, already run a set of swiss sides and would love another set

What I am trying to say is PICK ME!!

I'd love to be involved.... if I had a rim-braking road bike.

Talk to me once the disc brake version comes out

nezumi wrote:I'd love to be involved.... if I had a rim-braking road bike.

Talk to me once the disc brake version comes out

+1

I'd be interested in participating.
I sit at 71 Kg and average about 13,500k a year on "rolling hills terrain. Some of them hills are fairly steep.

Would also like to express interest.

Would be compared to a shared set of Cosmics (another alloy/carbon wheelset) for an apples vs apples review.

I would like to pair up with another tester and accelerate towards each other till the Hadrons collide and see if we can create a black hole.

Oooooh...you'll need a female opinion too then

These sound like they may be perfect for the tt bike as I'm looking for some alu/carbon clinchers for it currently.

george-bob wrote:I am interested, already run a set of swiss sides and would love another set

What I am trying to say is PICK ME!!

Should add, I am 78kg, do ~13000km/yr of moderately hilly riding with lots of time trialling and triathlons.

I'd be happy to give them a test.

Mainly approx 250km commuting with hills a week. 85kg give or take plus bike.

The registration is being setup which will make it easy to 'get on the list'. As the price and special price for VIP testers isn't know, of course registering your interest is non-binding.

--

Lets get onto some questions for Swiss Side. Having ridden a few of the wheels already and spoken to other owners including of the full carbon Matterhorns, I do have a bit of a headstart already.

Now the Hadron project is really fascinating, letting the community direct the development - so Swiss Side, in the grand scheme of the wheelset development, how much have the community input (survey results) lead to significant change in the development? If the community has decided on and all Aluminium or all Carbon wheelset - would the current product be completely different.

And the second question - the rim profile of the Hadron bulges as is the trend in other top wheelsets (moving away from a triangular profile). How far is this design/engineering direction guided by the competition and how far is it guided by independent research and calculations into the most effective profile.


(Image from the Swiss Side Hadron Project Update 7)

AUbicycles wrote:And the second question - the rim profile of the Hadron bulges as is the trend in other top wheelsets (moving away from a triangular profile). How far is this design/engineering direction guided by the competition and how far is it guided by independent research and calculations into the most effective profile.

That makes for a very interesting question, not just for S/S wheels but for all manufacturers out there. Be interesting to see the science behind the designs.

Interested in this Hadron project. Completed the survey.
I am a heavy rider, about 100-105kg average, so wheelset strength would be definitely tested, if the engineered weight limit is high enough.

AUbicycles wrote: Now the Hadron project is really fascinating, letting the community direct the development - so Swiss Side, in the grand scheme of the wheelset development, how much have the community input (survey results) lead to significant change in the development? If the community has decided on and all Aluminium or all Carbon wheelset - would the current product be completely different.

That’s a good question AUbicycles. Within the parameters we set we were very open to feedback from the community. We launched the project with the goal of engineering and developing an industry leading aerodynamic wheel set at a significantly lower price than the big brands. Within this scope we wanted to hear from the public so that they could help to steer our decision making process and we could develop a wheel that would tick the right boxes for the majority.
As far as the community input significantly changing the direction of the project, we’ve found that for the most part the feedback has aligned with our initial spec proposal and has more so reinforced the development direction we initially had in mind. With that being said, we’ve found ourselves referring back to the feedback on many occasions throughout the process and making decisions with this feedback in mind. If we had found that the community feedback indicated that the project should be moving in a different direction then yes, we definitely would have questioned our direction and the final output would most likely be different.
It’s interesting that you bring up the full carbon wheel set because from the feedback received so far there is a strong indication that the carbon clincher should be on the radar. Indications like these definitely prompt our thoughts for the future!

AUbicycles wrote: And the second question - the rim profile of the Hadron bulges as is the trend in other top wheelsets (moving away from a triangular profile). How far is this design/engineering direction guided by the competition and how far is it guided by independent research and calculations into the most effective profile.

Yes this is an interesting question and I’d like to point out that if you’re interested in this question then you’ll most likely find our latest Hadron project update (Hadron Project Update 7 - http://www.swissside.com/735) quite informative.
The design and engineering direction for the Hadron is very much guided by our own research and engineering experience. We've taken a full Formula 1 development approach to engineering the Hadron wheel set, right from the structural design through to the aerodynamics. When it comes to developing the most effective profile, we've utilized advanced CFD (computational fluid dynamics) methods to drive the rim shape optimisation. Through this CFD optimisation process we are able to explore the performance of a wide variety of rim shapes within a series of pre-defined shape variations. The end result is that we can see the performance differences between each variation allowing us to select the profile that performs best.
CFD development is then followed by prototyping and windtunnel testing.
Hadron project update 7 dives right into the details of the rim profile optimisation process and its also got some great images that really show the level of detail explored.

Below are a couple of animations that show the following:

Pressure contour slices vertically through the wheel at 6 degrees cross-wind angle


Flow field through wheel centre with varying cross-wind angle

Swiss_Side_Wheels wrote:

AUbicycles wrote: And the second question - the rim profile of the Hadron bulges as is the trend in other top wheelsets (moving away from a triangular profile). How far is this design/engineering direction guided by the competition and how far is it guided by independent research and calculations into the most effective profile.

Yes this is an interesting question and I’d like to point out that if you’re interested in this question then you’ll most likely find our latest Hadron project update (Hadron Project Update 7 - http://www.swissside.com/735) quite informative.
The design and engineering direction for the Hadron is very much guided by our own research and engineering experience. We've taken a full Formula 1 development approach to engineering the Hadron wheel set, right from the structural design through to the aerodynamics. When it comes to developing the most effective profile, we've utilized advanced CFD (computational fluid dynamics) methods to drive the rim shape optimisation. Through this CFD optimisation process we are able to explore the performance of a wide variety of rim shapes within a series of pre-defined shape variations. The end result is that we can see the performance differences between each variation allowing us to select the profile that performs best.
CFD development is then followed by prototyping and windtunnel testing.
Hadron project update 7 dives right into the details of the rim profile optimisation process and its also got some great images that really show the level of detail explored.

Below are a couple of animations that show the following:

Pressure contour slices vertically through the wheel at 6 degrees cross-wind angle


Flow field through wheel centre with varying cross-wind angle

I think my quandary re how much research and engineering goes into the design has been answered... A lot!


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