Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby cerb » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:56 am

AUbicycles wrote:500km on a weekend is pretty good, you could probably elevate your status to a general or maybe even commander.


haha yeah... 15-25k kilometers per year is usually considered training/commitment - not being a weekend warrior! I'm currently doing about 120-160km per week of racing & training combined!
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by BNA » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:32 pm

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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby Rex » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:32 pm

haha I should have clarified... that is inclusive of my mid-week commuting which is about 280km at the moment
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby Swiss_Side_Wheels » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:47 am

george-bob wrote:Hey Swiss side,

Do you think you are targeting the same market segment as flo wheels? And, if so, why should people buy swiss side over flo?


Hi George-Bob. A very good question! With our transparency of reporting throughout the Hadron project, we have tried to openly showcase our very advanced methods of development. We'd dare to go as far as saying that these methods (derived directly from our active involvement in Formula 1) are most probably more advanced than anything which has been done before in the cycling industry. We can confidently say this quite simply because the CFD and wind tunnel testing methods we have used are the latest and greatest from the behind the tightly closed doors of Formula 1. The results of our wheel set performances, benchmarked against the best wheels in the world, speak for themselves!

So to answer your question, we are targeting the absolute top market segment- Head on with the 'Big Brands.' This is not only with our Hadron wheel set, but all our products. We have researched our competitors' development processes with interest. Indeed other brands can be seen to be also developing with similar processes (FEA, CFD and wind tunnel testing) but few if any to the same level of complexity and competence that we do at Swiss Side. Like any tool or instrument, most important is knowing how to use them. In aerodynamics in particular, our team has over 50 years of combined experience in CFD and wind tunnel testing in Formula 1. We simply have the best know-how, the best processes, and an unparalleled experience in this domain.

So why should you buy Swiss Side? Top level quality, top level performance, but at a cost price at least 40% less than our 'Big Brand' competitors. Why would you not?!
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby warthog1 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:44 pm

Swiss_Side_Wheels wrote:
george-bob wrote:Hey Swiss side,

Do you think you are targeting the same market segment as flo wheels? And, if so, why should people buy swiss side over flo?


Hi George-Bob. A very good question! With our transparency of reporting throughout the Hadron project, we have tried to openly showcase our very advanced methods of development. We'd dare to go as far as saying that these methods (derived directly from our active involvement in Formula 1) are most probably more advanced than anything which has been done before in the cycling industry. We can confidently say this quite simply because the CFD and wind tunnel testing methods we have used are the latest and greatest from the behind the tightly closed doors of Formula 1. The results of our wheel set performances, benchmarked against the best wheels in the world, speak for themselves!

So to answer your question, we are targeting the absolute top market segment- Head on with the 'Big Brands.' This is not only with our Hadron wheel set, but all our products. We have researched our competitors' development processes with interest. Indeed other brands can be seen to be also developing with similar processes (FEA, CFD and wind tunnel testing) but few if any to the same level of complexity and competence that we do at Swiss Side. Like any tool or instrument, most important is knowing how to use them. In aerodynamics in particular, our team has over 50 years of combined experience in CFD and wind tunnel testing in Formula 1. We simply have the best know-how, the best processes, and an unparalleled experience in this domain.

So why should you buy Swiss Side? Top level quality, top level performance, but at a cost price at least 40% less than our 'Big Brand' competitors. Why would you not?!


Too expensive for me at >$1500
Flo looks closer to the mark for a few 100 gms penalty.


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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:59 pm

warthog1 wrote:Too expensive for me at >$1500
Flo looks closer to the mark for a few 100 gms penalty.


I can't really judge the price point but think it is worth waiting.
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby Carrots » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:46 pm

AUbicycles wrote:
I can't really judge the price point but think it is worth waiting.


Sadly not with a 105kg weight limit :(

My group of mates and I are all 90-120kg and 6'2 to 6'6... The heaviest is also the tallest.


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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby Lukeyboy » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:52 pm

I don't know the price but what were you honestly expecting to pay?

Not sure if it's mentioned but talking about comparing with Zipp wheels what freehub conversions/options would be available. Say if someone runs a 10 speed system on their bike and then wants to upgrade to 11 speed DI2 down the track. Or even swapping wheelsets between different drivetrain bikes. Would it be as simple as adding or removing a 1.85mm spacer when swapping between 10 and 11 speed drivetrains or would a new rear wheel have to be purchased? Maybe even offering both? (10 speed only specific hubs and 11 speed hubs that are compatible with 10 speed providing a spacer is added when using 10 speed).
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby Rockford » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:47 am

I agree. I sort of thought they were going to be more and was hopeful that being a VIP Tester would bring them into my budget range for which I'd be happy to provide all the honest and impartial feedback they need.
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby mick243 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:22 am

Carrots wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:
I can't really judge the price point but think it is worth waiting.


Sadly not with a 105kg weight limit :(

My group of mates and I are all 90-120kg and 6'2 to 6'6... The heaviest is also the tallest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Plenty of manufacturers seem to forget that big people ride bikes (or play other sports), or is it just that they don't want the image of a larger person associated with their product? Is Clydesdale money no good?
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:27 pm

One of the responses from Swiss Side discussed the rider weight:

Swiss Side wrote:We are trying to cover the broadest weight range as possible with the Hadron without going overboard. Therefore the Hadron is spec'ed for riders up to 105kg. If we were to design specifically for light weight riders we could remove some more material from the rim and reduce the spoke count (say to 16-21). The weight saving for this would be in the order of 50g for the wheel set. The aero saving would however be extremely small. Therefore as the Hadron is specifically targeted at the aero wheel market, eg triathlon where races are predominantly flat, we were happy to accept the slight additional weight to make the wheel accessible to a larger market.


It is not about exclusion rather they maximising the market potential. It also means going for a set of custom wheels - there are a few custom wheelbuilders around.
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:55 am

Swiss Side are giing away a set of their Francs through facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/Swissside

In our BNA review, David called the Francs "Stiff, Fast and Responsive". Added to that I find that they handle very well and look good.
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby Ignoto » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:19 am

I'm curious to know how durable the wheels are? I like most people here would only run the one wheelset on our main bike. Meaning they would be used for slow rides such as commutes, to training and group rides and the occasional crits.

I've got a pair of wheels from a well known company here and in Australia, but I was told I should run a sturdier pair during the week and then chuck the current wheels (standard 30mm rims) on for the weekend.

So, I'm happy to pay the extra cash to ensure that I only need one pair and that having a training pair and a fun pair isn't necessary.
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:23 pm

Mail just came in and the winning design in the voting for the graphics is C.
A notable change is that the Swiss Side logo has changed from solid red to outline red which balances the overall graphics.

Concept D, my favorite came in at second, the results graph is below and extra details and survey methodology is on the Swiss Side Blog

And before showing the winning wheel, Swiss Side also have noted the next steps.

‘Hadron overview and pre-order registration’.
We’ll be announcing all the Hadron details you’ve been waiting for:
- The final production wheel set spec.
- Pricing
- Shipping and delivery dates.
- Where, when and how to purchase.
This will also be your first opportunity to register your interest in purchasing a Hadron wheel set.


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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby scotto » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:56 pm

$1500 is cheap for formula 1 technology and testing. Now repeat formula 1 on every sentence without any real reference to it. They could be the cleaners of the wind tunnel for all I know. This thread is boring me now. I think I'll continue looking at proven wheel sets with less talk and more action (though zipp do have some history with NASCAR !!)
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby darkelf921 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:34 pm

The graphics look pretty schmick.

It will be very interesting to see how these wheels compare to American Classics, my current wheels.
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:41 pm

Scotto.

Company Founder Jean-Paul Ballard (Australian based in Switzerland) works in Formular 1 so gives this comparatively new brand an advantage that even big name brands don't have.

I spent time trying to create the opportunity for BNA members, not only to get tech questions answered, but for some who are interested to take part in the VIP test. I appreciate following the steps of the production process and know that R&D takes time.

As there is no obligation to be involved or take interest so I am disappointed that you have chosen to post this.

Christopher.
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby warthog1 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:12 am

There are 2 sides to every story though Christopher. From my perspective it does seem to be for the most part a marketing exercise.
Good luck to swisside, they are in the business of selling wheels and are a newer brand. Watch a bit of gruen transfer though and it's hard not to be a bit cynical.


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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby scotto » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:15 am

AUbicycles wrote:Scotto.

Company Founder Jean-Paul Ballard (Australian based in Switzerland) works in Formular 1 so gives this comparatively new brand an advantage that even big name brands don't have.

I spent time trying to create the opportunity for BNA members, not only to get tech questions answered, but for some who are interested to take part in the VIP test. I appreciate following the steps of the production process and know that R&D takes time.

As there is no obligation to be involved or take interest so I am disappointed that you have chosen to post this.

Christopher.


Chris
dont get me wrong - i'm not bagging them out - im registered to the lucky dip vip test. its just that from a complete outsiders POV, i keep reading statements about F1 this and F1 that. If youre gonna shove credentials like these about left right and centre, at least provide some reference to their validity.

The swissside website certainly provides no substance to the claims. Now that youve given a name ( their website doesnt give surnames ) I can see through other websites that he does work in engineering at sauber F1 (2013). The average purchaser of wheels in the price range of what is being tauted here would be on the net comparing and researching a fair bit I would imagine, especially when its a new player in a well established market.
It should not be up to you and BNA to be working hard to get tech questions answered. Thats the companys job, and they appear to be doing it quite well on these forums so far.

Anyway, the whole F1 F1 F1 thing has been answered, and i'm looking forward to hearing more, though I suspect at the intomated ~$1500 price point, things could grow silent pretty quick...just my honest opinion. and i'd think im not alone. scott
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:45 am

There is absolutely a marketing value for Swiss Side being involved and I raised this possibility a while back and have taken care that the participation is intune with the community. Getting businesses involved is pretty tough, most don't understand the internet and if they believe it is simply a form of direct marketing rather than a give & take process. So yes, there is work involved in setting up and facilitating and I beleive that this format is of interest and adds value to the community who wouldn't get these type of insights with Mavic, Zipp, DT Swiss etc. The alternative to collaboration and involvement is banner advertising.

I don't know the price point - lets wait and see, that is part of their next announcement.
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby robbie d » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:00 pm

I don't think we'd see the same sort of data from any of the other manufacturers as they like to keep things secret. I think it's great that a company has opened the doors to the lab to give people not only an insight, but interactivity to help determine the final product
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby Summernight » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:42 pm

Woohoo! I loved C. It was my favourite. Might be way outside my price range but at least I got to help contribute to its design. :D
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby Lukeyboy » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:41 pm

You could always buy a wheel then buy the other wheel at another time :P
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby Swiss_Side_Wheels » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:25 pm

Hey all. We’ve noticed a few comments doubting the credibility of our claims and F1 links. Well we can assure you that all of our claims are real… our F1 involvement, our engineering know how, our cycling experience and best of all, the performance and cost price of our wheels IS REAL!

In the image below, you can see our wind tunnel testing crew. From left to right, you have James Eddison (15 years in F1), Jean-Paul Ballard (co-founder Swiss Side, 13 years in F1), Christian Kleiner (8 years in F1, previously BMW motorsport superbike aerodynamicist), Seamus Mullarkey (22 years in F1 and former Head of Aerodynamics & Chief Aerodynamicist). All of these guys are still currently involved in F1 and are all also very experienced cyclists.

Image

If you have any doubts in what we are saying, please take the time to read the completely open and transparent reporting we have published on the Hadron project http://www.swissside.com/hadron. We have done this to concretely prove the credibility of our bold statements. Have you ever seen another brand do this? How real are their claims? The Hadron wheel is superior aerodynamically than the world’s best aero wheels and the proof is there. How? We took our knowledge & development methods from F1 (which is normally held tightly in the F1 circles), and used it for developing the Hadron wheel. We mean it when we say that this team below was undoubtedly the most experienced aerodynamics crew to ever set foot in a wind tunnel for a bicycle industry related test.

Marketing… of course! We have to get our message out there. Repeating the word F1 everywhere… Absolutely, because it’s real, as is the performance of our products for this very reason! We challenge any other brand to match our transparency of development reporting, the experience within our team, the performance of our products, and our incredibly low and FAIR pricing.

Next week we will release the final specs and pricing for the Hadron wheel. You will be impressed!
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby scotto » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:08 pm

That should be on your website. Front page. Bold type . Shouldn't have taken > 10 pages to find out.
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Re: Get involved & VIP Test the Swiss Side Hadron Wheelset

Postby Rockford » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:53 am

$1100 delivered to Australia. Very excited now.

http://www.swissside.com/1147
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