Triples and double digit gradients

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby barefoot » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:53 am

ldrcycles wrote:What's your idea of "too fast to pedal" though barefoot? Because for me it's maybe 110-120 or something like that, I like to have something to push against.

I'm happy with that.

So, I coast if I'm rolling faster than about 63km/h. You still want to pedal at 73km/h. I'm not in _that_ much of a hurry... I'll just tuck and let gravity do the work.

tim
User avatar
barefoot
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Ballarat

by BNA » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:49 pm

BNA
 

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby warthog1 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:49 pm

Here are a couple of segments where the 53-11 comes in handy

http://www.strava.com/segments/638988?filter=overall

http://www.strava.com/segments/2255639

I'm spending a bit of time grovelling in the 53-11 there. If I'm at my limit grovelling, I'm not hanging on with a 50-12 I reckon.

http://www.bikecalc.com/cadence_at_speed
User avatar
warthog1
 
Posts: 2837
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby Smithstreet » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:01 pm

barefoot wrote:
So, I coast if I'm rolling faster than about 63km/h. You still want to pedal at 73km/h. I'm not in _that_ much of a hurry... I'll just tuck and let gravity do the work.


Hmmmm...

Rule #23// Tuck only after reaching Escape Velocity.
You may only employ the aerodynamic tuck after you have spun out your 53 x 11; the tuck is to be engaged only when your legs can no longer keep up. Your legs make you go fast, and trying to keep your fat ass out of the wind only serves to keep you from slowing down once you reach escape velocity. Thus, the tuck is only to be employed to prevent you slowing down when your legs have wrung the top end out of your block. Tucking prematurely while descending is the antithesis of Casually Deliberate. For more on riding fast downhill see Rule #64 and Rule #85.

8)
Smithstreet
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:15 pm

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby barefoot » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:43 pm

Alternately... I can coast while sucking the wheel of someone who is trying to spin out their 53:11, then come around when the road gets level and take the sprint points :mrgreen:

Nah, I always intended to fit either a 53:12 or 50:11, but randomly ended up with 50:12. Probably due to my own incompetence at the online shopping thing, or maybe because the bits I bought were about 32c cheaper than the bits I wanted and I'm a tightwad. Surprisingly, the 50:12 has been adequate, and I've never really wished for a taller gear.

In conclusion, triples are good.

tim
User avatar
barefoot
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Ballarat

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby il padrone » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:59 pm

Smithstreet wrote:Your legs make you go fast, and trying to keep your fat ass out of the wind only serves to keep you from slowing down once you reach escape velocity.

*

Hmm.....

Try a test one day on a steep descent. 7-10% btw, not some 3% dawdle. When you are spinning along easily in your 53x11, on the drops. Try pushing it harder to get a speed increase, and watch the speedo result. You might get 2-3kmh boost, 5kmh if you're lucky. At speeds of <70kmh the wind is the killer, saps most of your pedal efforts. Do the same run and then go into the tuck, and watch the speed ramp up. 10-15kmh increase is quite feasible, depending on the gradient and prevailing wind.

Image



If a tuck was so nasty and against the rules, pray tell why the TdF riders do it so readily??



*What on earth do you mean by "escape velocity" anyway ??
Last edited by il padrone on Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18402
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby warthog1 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:59 pm

barefoot wrote:Alternately... I can coast while sucking the wheel of someone who is trying to spin out their 53:11, then come around when the road gets level and take the sprint points :mrgreen:



tim


:lol: you are not going to be coasting on those segments. It is normally carnage with people dropping wheels and getting spat out the back. There are no triples ;). Not saying it can't be done but I've seen none.


Blame tapatalk
User avatar
warthog1
 
Posts: 2837
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:59 pm

barefoot wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:What's your idea of "too fast to pedal" though barefoot? Because for me it's maybe 110-120 or something like that, I like to have something to push against.

I'm happy with that.

So, I coast if I'm rolling faster than about 63km/h. You still want to pedal at 73km/h. I'm not in _that_ much of a hurry... I'll just tuck and let gravity do the work.

tim


Hmm, my cadence guesstimates must be way off then, i use the 52-11 above about 50-52kmh.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 6663
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby Smithstreet » Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:15 pm

il padrone wrote:


If a tuck was so nasty and against the rules, pray tell why the TdF riders do it so readily??



*What on earth do you mean by "escape velocity" anyway ??

Relax.

Not my words. It was a cut/paste from 'The Rules' http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/

Have a read, you might find some of it amusing. But then again, you may not!
It's supposed to be 'light-hearted', so don't take it TOO seriously. :D
Smithstreet
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:15 pm

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby stwaen » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:02 pm

If 'The_Eggman' were a novice, then a triple would be a good idea. But it's probably not necessary. A 30 or 32T cog should do the job.

My all-around road bike has a 50-39-30 triple and I like it just fine. I don't need a higher gear. A triple does give you a lot of options and gradual changes in gearing. HOWEVER, I could easily get a similar range of gears with a compact double and 30T cog.

My other road bike has a 53-11 top gear and I simply don't have the legs to use it. Whatever you do, don't try to please the cycling style police or you'll be stuck with 55-42 chainsets and 11-21 cassettes.
stwaen
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:27 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby greyhoundtom » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 am

I fitted a triple to my road bike 18 months ago, still use a 11/25 cassette, and have found it covers every requirement from speed to climbing whatever I’m stupid enough to tackle.

Once correctly set up it works like a dream, and yes there is the odd sneer from the occasional wanna be purist who are naive enough to still follow the RULES.
User avatar
greyhoundtom
 
Posts: 2545
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:28 am
Location: Narre Warren, Victoria

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby toolonglegs » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:29 am

The company I work for over summer has triples and compacts as rental bikes... triples definitely get looked down at, but then you often hear the inevitable " I wish I had a triple " 90 minutes into a Hors Cat climb :lol: .
I like my 36/34 combo on big climbs as I have hardly ever touched the 34 but it's nice to have it there :mrgreen: .
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14381
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby ironhanglider » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:51 pm

I did a climb today and deliberately didn't use the 30/34 though we did do a lot in the 30/30. :D This was mostly so that my stoker could have confidence that he could do it again next week when he approaches the same climb after a 3 hour warm up.

After that we found one of il padrone's 3% dawdles and wound up the 55/11 to claim a couple of top 10's on Strava. Pretty sure there are no faster E graders on that stretch of road.

http://app.strava.com/activities/127276658

Cheers,

Cameron
ironhanglider
 
Posts: 1098
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:44 pm
Location: Bruce, ACT

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby barefoot » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:45 am

barefoot wrote: I've "only" got a 50:12 top gear. 50:11 would be superfluous.


After crapping on at length about how I don't need anything higher than 50:12, I actually had a look at my cassette last night.

Turns out I'm running an 11-25 cassette after all :mrgreen:

So, yeah, what I meant to say is, 50:11 is plenty tall enough gear for me. Ahem. :oops:

tim
User avatar
barefoot
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Ballarat

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:08 pm

I was actually in the 52-11 at 25kmh last week :) . Good for really slow and steady out of the saddle pedalling to relieve the gentleman's area on a long ride.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 6663
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby duncanm » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:13 pm

il padrone wrote:If a tuck was so nasty and against the rules, pray tell why the TdF riders do it so readily??



*What on earth do you mean by "escape velocity" anyway ??


Il Padrone - completely oblivious to satire and parody.
duncanm
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby simonn » Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:23 pm

The_Eggman wrote:Lo All

Next roadie may be coming from Europe, so a triple is a serious option on the new steed.

I'm also trying to do the three peaks ( http://www.backoffalls.blogspot.com.au/ ) next year and was striving to improve my climbing. I already have a compact crankset and a 12-28. Will a triple make a massive difference to my capacity to climb steep stuff? I do tend to blow up when it get above 11% for more than a very short burst, so Hotham and the Back of Falls scare me. Hopefully my climbing gets better over the year, and the weight goes south. Nonetheless, is a triple a good idea for really steep stuff?


FWIW, have done loads of 200km+ rides (mostly audax - not the ones mentioned by you though).

My first two roadies had triples, then my now dedicated audax/endurance bike came with 53/39, I went compact 50/34 and now super compact 46/30 13-29 (campy - already had a spare 13-29, but will probably get 12-30 next time). There is a local audax ride with a ~750M 20% climb which I have ridden with 30/25, 39/29, 34/29 and 30/29. Guess which one was easier...? :)

Yes, makes a difference to climbing. Less muscle fatigue, which leaves more for the flats . I can climb 20% seated, but feeling like doing a wheely the whole time :), so generally stand for a bit too.

Can't sprint with 46/13, but I can't sprint at the end of a 200km+ ride anyway. If you can sprint at the end of 3 peaks <we're not worthy> and I'd be surprised that you are asking this question.

My fastest 200km nominal (actually 210km IIRC) was done with the super compact - FWIW, 27km/h, 8:15 elapsed (this is what counts for audax), ~2500M climbing and ~70% solo. For most mortals, like my freddly self, the top gears clearly do not matter so much for long endurance rides.

My choice would be to get a superduperalpine - super compact (46/30 Sugino OX601D - uses a standard shimano HT2 BB, so you should be able to swap out and drop the FD a few mm - no need to cut the cable or anything) and go a 12-30 or 12-32 cassette. Probably no need to get anything else... longer rear derailleur or just don't cross chain maybe. With a triple you are looking at almost a complete new drive train. You'll cruise up the steep bits with less fatigue. Tuck in and rest on descents. Plenty enough top gears for cruising the flats.

Unless of course you think you are going to sprint at the end :)
Image
User avatar
simonn
 
Posts: 3599
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby rjk » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:57 pm

you can also get get a middle length rear der from shimano or the sram wifli and put a 11-32 cassette on, so that you dont have to run a triple

here is the sram version

https://www.sram.com/sram/road/products ... derailleur
Boardman CX pro now the commuter, Salsa Casseroll, Trek Domane
rjk
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:11 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Triples and double digit gradients

Postby Le Mong » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:51 am

Image

Or just set your 9000 up carefully and enjoy.... ;)
Le Mong
 
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:15 pm

Previous

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], longbody, Newcastle Dave, roly, ScottFelt, the fat climber



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit