Processed food - what to do??

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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby Dragster1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:55 am

When are people going to realise they control the market. They want to eat this fast food junk and its very convenient for some, no one has a gun to their head or forcing them to eat it. I do agree that they target kids and alike with lollies at the counters but learn to say NO! like my parents had done even copped a couple of back handers.

You just have to look how MC Doodle counter acted the supersize me meal videos, all of a sudden they went to selling salads and salad wraps consumer choice I guess. In stead of going to Mc Doodles why no go to the sizzler bar. Its just the eating habits that people develop, they are hard to break.

When buying processed foods I always check for saturated fats, if they have more than 2 grams per 100 grams I avoid it and preservative 202
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby Calvin27 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:09 am

Dragster1 wrote:When are people going to realise they control the market.


I believe some of the problem is distortions in the market represented by subsidies and taxes. Some of the issues in US for example lead to high fructose corn syrup - corn is heavily subsidised by US govt.

It's really hard, processed food is engineered to taste good, cost less, last longer and easier to prepare. People are controlling the market when they offset miniscule health trade-offs against convenience - this is what the market wants. If we establish a perfect market (high competition, no distortions) I'd be satisfied with that. At the moment that's not what we have.
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby Xplora » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:14 am

I don't get this "90% of stuff you buy from the supermarket is garbage" stuff, simonn.

I don't BUY 90% of stuff at the supermarket. Dinner seems to be either meat, flavour (curry or apricot) and rice, plus vegetables, or meat, salad and mash. Or pasta dish, either tomato or cream. Variations on the theme, I made homemade calamari for the first time and it was AWESOME :lol:

We talk about this "stuff we buy is garbage" but the decision is still always within the individual. I don't get sick much, I crap regularly, and I seem to be able to avoid injury for the most part. I have tons of fats in my diet - steak, lamb, chicken thigh, but I control those portions aggressively. I don't accidently have 50grams of butter in my pasta. I don't accidently put 2 tablespoons of oil in my salad. I have it intentionally and carefully. I control my food intake, and I don't bump that responsibility often.

I eat takeaway once or twice a week - this is actually a biologically sensible plan, because most of the time I'm probably fasting. Sure I might blow the calories through the roof, but my exercise levels justify it easily.

Not everyone can do well on my diet. I do take supplements for magnesium and creatine as well. But let's stop blaming supermarkets. If we ate curry made from scratch, BBQ and salad, and made our spag bol from scratch, we'd have a very good control on flavour, health and portions. I feel that a lot of people don't do that, and act surprised when they balloon out :idea:
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby simonn » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:57 am

Xplora wrote:I don't get this "90% of stuff you buy from the supermarket is garbage" stuff, simonn.

I don't BUY 90% of stuff at the supermarket. Dinner seems to be either meat, flavour (curry or apricot) and rice, plus vegetables, or meat, salad and mash. Or pasta dish, either tomato or cream. Variations on the theme, I made homemade calamari for the first time and it was AWESOME :lol:

We talk about this "stuff we buy is garbage" but the decision is still always within the individual. I don't get sick much, I crap regularly, and I seem to be able to avoid injury for the most part. I have tons of fats in my diet - steak, lamb, chicken thigh, but I control those portions aggressively. I don't accidently have 50grams of butter in my pasta. I don't accidently put 2 tablespoons of oil in my salad. I have it intentionally and carefully. I control my food intake, and I don't bump that responsibility often.

I eat takeaway once or twice a week - this is actually a biologically sensible plan, because most of the time I'm probably fasting. Sure I might blow the calories through the roof, but my exercise levels justify it easily.

Not everyone can do well on my diet. I do take supplements for magnesium and creatine as well. But let's stop blaming supermarkets. If we ate curry made from scratch, BBQ and salad, and made our spag bol from scratch, we'd have a very good control on flavour, health and portions. I feel that a lot of people don't do that, and act surprised when they balloon out :idea:


Good for you. Most people seem to do this minus the exercise though. In any case, there is a little more to it than just calories in, calories out - e.g. transfats bad, high sugar (except maybe during high intensity exercise) bad, inflammatory responses to various foods etc etc etc - even if you do a high level of exercise. How is your body fat %? Not saying yours is necessarily bad, but you could probably get better results (therefore better power/weight) if you avoided the takeaway etc.

90% of readily available food stuff being unhealthy normalizes bad food. That is the problem.
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby toofat » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:36 am

those that think food hasnt changed much havent been around for long enough
the message is just buy unprocessed foods but its getting increasingly difficult
15 years ago the butcher sold just meat, nothing added
today in my local butcher nearly half the trays are meat that is marinated, stuffed of coated in something unknown and they had no plain chicken left
in supermarkets a massive rise in the shelf space taken up by pre made meals, and set to grow if europe and usa are any indication
alternate breeds of cattle,pigs and chickens are becomming extinct as agribusiness breeds for growth rates over taste
you cannot buy fresh orange juice any more in any supermarkets in my area
A major supermarket chain was importing dough from Ireland and selling the product as baked on the premises
Almost every facet of the food supply chain is becomming more processed
the freh food people are selling fruit and vegetables imported from china usa ect
On the bright side, and as a backlash to this, is the rise of farmers and growers markets
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby human909 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:44 am

simonn wrote:How is your body fat %? Not saying yours is necessarily bad, but you could probably get better results (therefore better power/weight) if you avoided the takeaway etc.

:?: What is you problem with takeaway? I eat takeaway for half my meals each week. There is plenty of good options, eat in modertation

(I don't think this is a body fat % competition. But I am at the lower end of what is healthy. I personally would prefer to gain weight at the moment.)

simonn wrote:90% of readily available food stuff being unhealthy normalizes bad food. That is the problem.

I don't believe this. I would argue the opposite. 90% of foods can be healthy, you just need MODERATION.
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby Dragster1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:56 am

toofat wrote:those that think food hasnt changed much havent been around for long enough
the message is just buy unprocessed foods but its getting increasingly difficult
15 years ago the butcher sold just meat, nothing added
today in my local butcher nearly half the trays are meat that is marinated, stuffed of coated in something unknown and they had no plain chicken left
in supermarkets a massive rise in the shelf space taken up by pre made meals, and set to grow if europe and usa are any indication
alternate breeds of cattle,pigs and chickens are becomming extinct as agribusiness breeds for growth rates over taste
you cannot buy fresh orange juice any more in any supermarkets in my area
A major supermarket chain was importing dough from Ireland and selling the product as baked on the premises
Almost every facet of the food supply chain is becomming more processed
the freh food people are selling fruit and vegetables imported from china usa ect
On the bright side, and as a backlash to this, is the rise of farmers and growers markets

The hardest thing is finding fresh fruit, A lot of people just don't know how old the fruit is in supermarkets because that's all they have ever known as fresh. As for poultry and meats same thing, tasteless and some of it looks like a super chicken on steroids the size of the chicken breasts are abnormal
Last edited by Dragster1 on Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby Parker » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:08 pm

toofat wrote:A major supermarket chain was importing dough from Ireland and selling the product as baked on the premises

Both woolworths and coles do this with a lot of their products, inlcuding the cookies, a lot of the bread is bough in like this as well.

But at Christmas time when I make cookies for everyone I spend one weekend making the dough and then I freeze it all, and then closer to christmas I cook it all and distribute.

There's nothing wrong with freezing things, bring it in from Ireland though :shock:
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby Xplora » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:22 pm

simonn wrote: How is your body fat %? Not saying yours is necessarily bad, but you could probably get better results (therefore better power/weight) if you avoided the takeaway etc.

90% of readily available food stuff being unhealthy normalizes bad food. That is the problem.

Not sure on body fat percentage. I am seeing my psoas a bit recently, and the obliques... I'm not aiming for that though. If anything I aim to have a minimum weight because that ensures sufficient reserves for functional capacity. Bonking doesn't happen just on the bike. :shock: No don't be rude :lol:

I should add that I definitely add the oils and butter etc, but I'm in control of that... once you let someone else add the salt and the cheese etc etc etc you really don't know what is in it. I don't think a lot of people appreciate that you need to cook the stuff yourself to monitor all of that. In fairness, two of the biggest guys I know are either professional or amateur chefs, so this "control your cooking" plan does have weaknesses - never trust a skinny chef :mrgreen:

toofat, I humbly disagree with your assertions. They hold fast for major retailers, sure. But why are you using them, if you clearly have a preference for taste and quality over price (aka growth rates and volume)?? There are lots and lots of shops that cater for you these days. Stupid amounts of shops. Maybe today's foodie gastronomy extremist is simply yesterday's decent home cook, but the responsibility continues to end up on your plate, not these other major retailers... premade food at Coles? Just buy takeout, it's almost the same cost and you don't need to store it at home! God help Dominos if people remember how to make pizza dough again. My wife does a homemade pizza worth 2-3 bucks that costs 20 bucks to even come close to at a woodfire pizza shop.

This isn't me patting myself on the back for making my own food; BBQ and salad tastes AWESOME and it just makes it hard to justify spending up big on all these premade things that are designed purely to improve profit margins (you make more selling a car than just the steel to make the car, or the iron ore to make the steel). I like having the options, but sometimes the options just aren't worth the cost. If you are that short of time that you can't prepare food regularly, then you are doing something wrong. We don't outsource our toilet breaks to catheters and colostomy bags even though the convenience would be incredible... we enjoy food a lot more than crapping so we really should be making the time to do it well. Just copy Jamie Oliver's shows if its really that hard. 8)
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby Dragster1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:30 pm

Xplora wrote:
toofat, I humbly disagree with your assertions. They hold fast for major retailers, sure. But why are you using them, if you clearly have a preference for taste and quality over price (aka growth rates and volume)?? There are lots and lots of shops that cater for you these days. Stupid amounts of shops. Maybe today's foodie gastronomy extremist is simply yesterday's decent home cook, but the responsibility continues to end up on your plate, not these other major retailers... .
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby simonn » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:08 pm

human909 wrote: :?: What is you problem with takeaway? I eat takeaway for half my meals each week. There is plenty of good options, eat in modertation

(I don't think this is a body fat % competition. But I am at the lower end of what is healthy. I personally would prefer to gain weight at the moment.)


Generally, takeaway is loaded with fat (either bad fats or just high cal), sugar and salt. It's why it tastes so nice. You might want the calories, but high salt and sugar, and possible bad fats is still not good.

human909 wrote:
simonn wrote:90% of readily available food stuff being unhealthy normalizes bad food. That is the problem.

I don't believe this. I would argue the opposite. 90% of foods can be healthy, you just need MODERATION.


I used to think that, but I have done a lot more reading over the past year or so (basically since having a PT who encourages me to diet). Off the top of my head...

- To paraphrase John Yudkin in Pure White Deadly with regards to added sugar, "how do you define moderation for something that has only become part of the human diet within a few generations and is essentially empty calories?"

- The maximum RDA for sodium is 2,300 mg. Now look at the nutrition labels on packaged foods and do some maths. Seriously, with a lot of even healthy wholemeal breads a couple of sandwiches and you are almost there. How do you moderate this? And, it is bread! Bread! Most people seem to think of bread as practically a vegetable :).
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby human909 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:28 pm

simonn wrote:Generally, takeaway is loaded with fat (either bad fats or just high cal), sugar and salt. It's why it tastes so nice. You might want the calories, but high salt and sugar, and possible bad fats is still not good.


Well I find that a gross generalisation. You can get takeaway in or forms of food. From greasy food to healthy food. The choice is yours.
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby il padrone » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:33 pm

Calvin27 wrote:If we establish a perfect market (high competition, no distortions) I'd be satisfied with that. At the moment that's not what we have.

That's not what we will ever have. The 'perfect market' is an economic myth - it very rarely ever has existed, and in the modern, globalised, technology-centred world it never will.

Take perfect knowledge for instance...... or the homogeneous product. They do NOT exist.
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby simonn » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:35 pm

human909 wrote:
simonn wrote:Generally, takeaway is loaded with fat (either bad fats or just high cal), sugar and salt. It's why it tastes so nice. You might want the calories, but high salt and sugar, and possible bad fats is still not good.


Well I find that a gross generalisation. You can get takeaway in or forms of food. From greasy food to healthy food. The choice is yours.


Generalization. Sure. Gross, certainly not. You have to really search for "healthy" takeaways, unless you have just a salad or something.
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby human909 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:41 pm

I suppose it depends where you live/work. Where I live there is more choice than you can poke a stick at, most of it decent food. :mrgreen: Where as I was working in one of those "new" suburbs where you had plenty of choice between, KFC, McDonalds and Hungry Jacks. :?
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby anttismo » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:44 pm

simonn wrote:....- To paraphrase John Yudkin in Pure White Deadly with regards to added sugar, "how do you define moderation for something that has only become part of the human diet within a few generations and is essentially empty calories?"...


how are they "empty"? does your body not get grunt out of them? :lol:

simonn wrote:....- The maximum RDA for sodium is 2,300 mg. Now look at the nutrition labels on packaged foods and do some maths. Seriously, with a lot of even healthy wholemeal breads a couple of sandwiches and you are almost there. How do you moderate this? And, it is bread! Bread! Most people seem to think of bread as practically a vegetable :).


Typical supermarket breads tend to be about 400mg per 100g. 2 slices about 250 mg sodium, about 10% of the daily recomended intake. But yes, I agree the average diet is probably high on salt, so it's worth doing a count on if it concerns you. :)
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby simonn » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:45 pm

human909 wrote:I suppose it depends where you live/work. Where I live there is more choice than you can poke a stick at, most of it decent food. :mrgreen: Where as I was working in one of those "new" suburbs where you had plenty of choice between, KFC, McDonalds and Hungry Jacks. :?


Unfortunately, the latter seems to be the norm. However, even apparently healthy food, i.e. lots of vegetables etc, can be loaded with salt, sugar and cooked with transfat etc and you'd be none the wiser.
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby Dragster1 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:53 pm

anttismo wrote:
simonn wrote:....- To paraphrase John Yudkin in Pure White Deadly with regards to added sugar, "how do you define moderation for something that has only become part of the human diet within a few generations and is essentially empty calories?"...


how are they "empty"? does your body not get grunt out of them? :lol:

simonn wrote:....- The maximum RDA for sodium is 2,300 mg. Now look at the nutrition labels on packaged foods and do some maths. Seriously, with a lot of even healthy wholemeal breads a couple of sandwiches and you are almost there. How do you moderate this? And, it is bread! Bread! Most people seem to think of bread as practically a vegetable :).


Typical supermarket breads tend to be about 400mg per 100g. 2 slices about 250 mg sodium, about 10% of the daily recomended intake. But yes, I agree the average diet is probably high on salt, so it's worth doing a count on if it concerns you. :)

Is that salt intake for your average person or for someone that does the hard yards on the bike. I have a lot of salt or I end up with bad muscle cramps
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby simonn » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:01 pm

Dragster1 wrote:
anttismo wrote:
simonn wrote:....- To paraphrase John Yudkin in Pure White Deadly with regards to added sugar, "how do you define moderation for something that has only become part of the human diet within a few generations and is essentially empty calories?"...


how are they "empty"? does your body not get grunt out of them? :lol:

simonn wrote:....- The maximum RDA for sodium is 2,300 mg. Now look at the nutrition labels on packaged foods and do some maths. Seriously, with a lot of even healthy wholemeal breads a couple of sandwiches and you are almost there. How do you moderate this? And, it is bread! Bread! Most people seem to think of bread as practically a vegetable :).


Typical supermarket breads tend to be about 400mg per 100g. 2 slices about 250 mg sodium, about 10% of the daily recomended intake. But yes, I agree the average diet is probably high on salt, so it's worth doing a count on if it concerns you. :)

Is that salt intake for your average person or for someone that does the hard yards on the bike. I have a lot of salt or I end up with bad muscle cramps


RDA is for an average person. This is sodium though and it is unlikely it is a lack of sodium if you eat like a normal westerner (which has been the point of my posts :)). Possible potassium, magnesium etc...?
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby human909 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:03 pm

In my experience this is not true. I often have to consume extra salt (sodium) due to sweating lots. And don't get me started on vegetables cooked in transfat and loaded with salt, sugar and me being none the wiser. Simply absurd.
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby casual_cyclist » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:32 pm

toofat wrote:those that think food hasnt changed much havent been around for long enough
the message is just buy unprocessed foods but its getting increasingly difficult

Swansea St Markets. http://www.perthwalkabout.com/Markets/s ... rkets.html

I find these days I spend more $ at Swansea and Spud Shed than at coles and woolies.

toofat wrote:15 years ago the butcher sold just meat, nothing added

Ha ha. Leondards Chicken. They don't sell fresh meat, just ready to eat with who knows what added. There a new butcher at Swansea St. Not sure what they sell but it looks legit. Maybe worth a look?
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby casual_cyclist » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:37 pm

ldrcycles wrote:I disagree, I think lack of physical activity is a far bigger factor. Food really hasn't changed that much, lifestyles on the other hand have.

If you think that food hasn't really changed that much, you haven't been to a supermarket recently. I remember as a kid the chocolate and lolly section used to be just that... a section. Now there is a whole aisle at my local super dedicated to just chocolate and lollies. Then there is another to sweet biscuits. That's a whole lot of gratuitous calories right there. There are also multiple sections dedicated to ready to eat meals... just heat and serve. That was unheard of back in the day.

Of course the traditional foods are still there... fruit, veggies, frozen veg, plain yoghurt, milk, eggs, cheese etc. There are plenty of processed healthy foods if you know where to look: tinned legumes, passata, dried beans and peas, whole rolled oats etc. They are much harder to find now but they are still there. Of course I would buy these in bulk from my local markets because they are much cheaper! :mrgreen:
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby anttismo » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:43 pm

So here's a question. Say you are a big, fat, slow, bike rider and you ride a real lot and eat a real lot - let's say 2.5 times average daily number of calories for an adult. do you suppose the recomended salt allowance scales with calories? Should the aformentioned big, fat, cyclist eat 2.5 times the sodium intake, or stick with 2300 mg and eat food effectively 2.5 times less salty?

BTW, for those not necessarily tracking such things, table salt is only about 40% sodium, the rest being chlorine. so the 2.3g sodium allowance is about 6g salt - a tea spoon and bit :)
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby casual_cyclist » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:49 pm

anttismo wrote:So here's a question. Say you are a big, fat, slow, bike rider and you ride a real lot and eat a real lot - let's say 2.5 times average daily number of calories for an adult. do you suppose the recomended salt allowance scales with calories? Should the aformentioned big, fat, cyclist eat 2.5 times the sodium intake, or stick with 2300 mg and eat food effectively 2.5 times less salty?

Depends what your blood pressure is. Two reviews found that people with normal blood pressure do not need to reduce the amount of salt they eat or drink.

For instance, a pair of Cochrane reviews found that while a low-salt diet was useful for reducing blood pressure in people with high blood pressure, the authors concluded that “the available evidence does not suggest that people with normal blood pressure should reduce the amount of salt they eat or drink.”

Likewise, while it’s true that most people get far more sodium than they need, it should not be overlooked that sodium is a nutrient your body needs to function properly. In fact, sodium helps:

•Maintain the proper balance of fluids in your body
•Transmit nerve impulses
•Influence the contraction and relaxation of muscles

http://www.cncahealth.com/explore/learn ... d-the-ugly
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Re: Processed food - what to do??

Postby anttismo » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:10 pm

I think my BP is pretty good. Used to be high when I was really massively overweight, but came down with my weight. Been OK in my annual check ups.
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