Don't feed the Lance

[cyclotaur]

I think Stuart O'Grady was the cameraman

Cheap shot. I even avoided reading the thread until now, and haven't seen the video, but lumping O'Grady in with LA is a little unfair IMHO.



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[bianchi928]

Stuart O'Grady only did it once - and while I don't know how long 'once' was, we can remove him from the equation firstly as he was playing the game and was not the games masters and secondly because Alberto Contador was on camera.

Once, really? The same O'Grady who lied and said he never doped and even worse, was critical of other riders who tested positive.

I don't think you can remove him from the equation because he was "playing the game" (although, good job on the Contador joke )

Ask someone like Steven Swart or any other clean athletes who were robbed by dopers if any dopers should be removed from the equation.

[Dragster1]

Stuart O'Grady only did it once - and while I don't know how long 'once' was, we can remove him from the equation firstly as he was playing the game and was not the games masters and secondly because Alberto Contador was on camera.

Once, really? The same O'Grady who lied and said he never doped and even worse, was critical of other riders who tested positive.

I don't think you can remove him from the equation because he was "playing the game" (although, good job on the Contador joke )

Ask someone like Steven Swart or any other clean athletes who were robbed by dopers if any dopers should be removed from the equation.

yes agree but more than one thinks is " playing the game " these top teams have a lot of money thrown at them, Dont forget these teams can afford the best of most experts. They just keep on being one step ahead and doing things that cant be detected, until someone finds out or squeals that they are at an unfair advantage. It happens in every sport.

[Dragster1]

Video ABC "Stop at nothing"http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-02/n ... 07/5566220

[lobstermash]

Great little doco, that one. Interesting that they didn't touch on whether he actually had cancer or not...

[Dragster1]

Great little doco, that one. Interesting that they didn't touch on whether he actually had cancer or not...

The truth will come out one day, its just the people hiding the truth (or been tricked by the dream) may end up with egg on their face and there is a lot of them.I think there was a lot of brown paper bags handed under tables to shut people up.

[GeoffInBrisbane]

Seems unlikely to me given the likes of Betsy Andreu were adamant about the hospital room but never dropped any hints of that nature.

[AUbicycles]

I think there was a lot of brown paper bags handed under tables to shut people up.

Metaphorically! It was intimidation and taking away business. Lance was a big money-spinner for a number of brands so exerted his influence and blocked off or stopped career and business opportunities. The brands will officially say that they were duped, which is true to an extent but there was a network of around armstrong heavily connected and employed in the industry.

I doubt that many of the people involved will come out - they have profited and have nothing to gain at this stage. Many who were wittingly or unwittingly assisted in the cover-ups are in the same boat (including those who were intimidated and played along).

[HappyHumber]

Seriously, when was the last time you went to page 2 of a google search?

Mind... blown....

Whilst I am old enough to remember the pre-Google internet... this had never occurred to me until now.

[Dragster1]

I think there was a lot of brown paper bags handed under tables to shut people up.

Metaphorically! It was intimidation and taking away business. Lance was a big money-spinner for a number of brands so exerted his influence and blocked off or stopped career and business opportunities. The brands will officially say that they were duped, which is true to an extent but there was a network of around armstrong heavily connected and employed in the industry.

I doubt that many of the people involved will come out - they have profited and have nothing to gain at this stage. Many who were wittingly or unwittingly assisted in the cover-ups are in the same boat (including those who were intimidated and played along).

Armstrong was a business man as well as being a good fraud , He knew how to manipulate people and he paid Roberto Gaggioli to throw a race, I wonder how many times this happen that we don't know about.

[AUbicycles]

Good point.

[ColinOldnCranky]

Is this new or a surprise?

I may have to check my copy but I am certainthat at least one payoff to a rider to ensure he qualified for a bonus of was raised by David Walsh in " Seven Deadly Sins: My Pursuit of Lance Armstrong".

Off hand I don't think it was the TdF.

[AUbicycles]

Not new, I was not taking into racing bribes - rather whether hush money was paid to cover up allegations or manipulate witnesses.

I was personally hoping and planning to ignore Armstrong but a preview copy of The Armstrong Lie film due in August has landed on my desk...

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Great little doco, that one. Interesting that they didn't touch on whether he actually had cancer or not...

I don't think that's ever been in doubt.

[yugyug]

Great little doco, that one. Interesting that they didn't touch on whether he actually had cancer or not...

I don't think that's ever been in doubt.

I think what's questionable is whether his cancer was caused by PED abuse. It's certain he took PEDs prior to cancer, but he hasn't been forthcoming with an admission - I think because of the possibility they are linked. It raises his career and life to a whole new level of sham.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Great little doco, that one. Interesting that they didn't touch on whether he actually had cancer or not...

I don't think that's ever been in doubt.

I think what's questionable is whether his cancer was caused by PED abuse. It's certain he took PEDs prior to cancer, but he hasn't been forthcoming with an admission - I think because of the possibility they are linked. It raises his career and life to a whole new level of sham.

Health outcomes such as cancer are multifactoral and lifestyle choices simply changes the probabilities (IOW increases or decreases the risk). No one can definitively say one way or another what caused/causes such an illness.

It's entirely possible the cancer was unrelated / partially related / totally due to (pick any one) the long term use of doping, which in case of LA goes back to his late teenage years with USAC.

[yugyug]

Yes that's true it can't be said with certainty that his use of PEDs caused his cancer. My point is more that he still hasn't admitted PED use prior to his cancer because it confirms the possibility.

[toolonglegs]

PED's may or may not have caused the cancer... we will never know. But I think the taking of PED's definitely affected the decision of when to seek help in the first place, if taking testosterone etc then you are used to your nuts feeling weird and swollen... can anyone else here honestly say they wouldn't go and see a doctor well before one of their testicles was the size of an orange!.

[yugyug]

Interesting comment - I didn't know testosterone made your balls feel weird, but did wonder about why he waited so long to see a doctor.

Just watched the ABC doco on iview. Pretty good, some great footage of old races, which I thought were a bit sparse in the Armstrong Lie doco. Also the ABC suggests a lot more firmly that the federal criminal investigation was dropped because Armstrong leveraged a political connection.

[AUbicycles]

but did wonder about why he waited so long to see a doctor

He said it was because he was arrogant and ignored the signs. I am finding it very hard to believe it was arrogance... how can you use put the word 'arrogant' in the same sentence as 'Lance Armstrong'? It just doesn't work.

[Dragster1]

He said it was because he was arrogant and ignored the signs. I am finding it very hard to believe it was arrogance... how can you use put the word 'arrogant' in the same sentence as 'Lance Armstrong'? It just doesn't work.

LOL! He was such a good liar he and others believed, He gave very direct answers that were believable when questioned about doping.
One also has to ask how may pro cyclists were on the "juice" in those days, you cant win a TDF on your own

[yugyug]

but did wonder about why he waited so long to see a doctor

He said it was because he was arrogant and ignored the signs. I am finding it very hard to believe it was arrogance... how can you use put the word 'arrogant' in the same sentence as 'Lance Armstrong'? It just doesn't work.

Maybe it can fit within his name instead "Lance Arrogamtstong"