UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

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kb
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby kb » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:08 pm

Sharkey wrote:Personally I think we should have stuck with this:

Image

Since then it's just been bike companies bringing out new things we dont't really need to get us to buy more bikes.

Just got one of those (more or less) for 18 month daughter :-)
Image

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silentC
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby silentC » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:31 am

Sharkey wrote:Personally I think we should have stuck with this:

Image

Since then it's just been bike companies bringing out new things we dont't really need to get us to buy more bikes.


Have you any idea how much those things cost? I have seen one in the storeroom of a bike shop in Sydney and he told me what it was insured for. You could buy a garage full of bikes for half the price!
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

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Thoglette
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Thoglette » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:06 pm

Meanwhile, a mostly balanced piece from Jan Heine on the topic of the brakes in this year's tour.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

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MichaelB
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby MichaelB » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:29 pm

Thoglette wrote:Meanwhile, a mostly balanced piece from Jan Heine on the topic of the brakes in this year's tour.


Yep, and from an engineering point, this makes sense.....

And many riders find that rim brakes offer superior feel: The brake lever is directly connected to the rim via a cable, rather than having the feedback dulled by the wind-up of the spokes and by hydraulic fluid.


Not. It's both right & wrong.

Jmuzz
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:38 pm

I wonder whether the next generation of disc will make the rotor a quick swap floating part?
Neutral wheels wouldn't have a rotor, it would be a quick toolless swap when fitting wheel so disc stays with the bike.
It handles the issues with rotor alignment.

That hot swap disc hub cap may also allow the wheels to be rim compatible, the hub piece could have a discless thinner version.
The hub system would also allow for non standardized axle width and length since the bikes adaptors convert the standard wheel.

SRAM teams aren't going to want to see Shimano distinctive disc designs running on their bike, so that's a case for keeping disc seperate to wheel.

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Comedian
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Comedian » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:29 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Thoglette wrote:Meanwhile, a mostly balanced piece from Jan Heine on the topic of the brakes in this year's tour.


Yep, and from an engineering point, this makes sense.....

And many riders find that rim brakes offer superior feel: The brake lever is directly connected to the rim via a cable, rather than having the feedback dulled by the wind-up of the spokes and by hydraulic fluid.


Not. It's both right & wrong.

I note that you excluded a couple of lines from your paragraph snip...

So why did the racers use rim brakes when their sponsors wanted them to use discs? If discs were superior, racers would have used them, especially in the mountains. After all, a real advantage on the many descents of this year’s Tour would have outweighed the relatively small risk of losing time due to a wheel change.

The answer is simple: Really good rim brakes stop just as well as even the best disc brakes. And many riders find that rim brakes offer superior feel: The brake lever is directly connected to the rim via a cable, rather than having the feedback dulled by the wind-up of the spokes and by hydraulic fluid. It’s refreshing that even today, where bike racing has become big business, winning races still is more important than pleasing sponsors.


I'm pretty sure I've been saying this all along. Good rim brakes work really well. This year has shown it - if you have serious aspirations of winning the TDF - you'll probably steer clear of a disc brake bike if you have a choice.

I would never say never to a disc brake bike winning the TDF - but I really don't think it will be for some time, and I think those pesky high performance rim brakes are going to be mucking up the marketing copy for a while.

I don't expect the manufacturers will really care - once they've sold most people a disc bike or two they can sell them a rim bike. "feel how well it handles and rides.. feel how light it is! It climbs like a dream! Look the best climbers at the TDF ride them. Buy Now!"

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby warthog1 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:34 pm

Thoglette wrote:Meanwhile, a mostly balanced piece from Jan Heine on the topic of the brakes in this year's tour.


I wonder how true this bit is?
As the race continued, most racers quietly switched back to rim brakes. The yellow jersey contenders had used rim brakes from the beginning. Why?

The racers were concerned about flats. Through axles require extra time during wheel changes. Worse, the inevitable manufacturing tolerances change the alignment of the disc rotors on different wheels, even if the same model of hub is used. Unless the disc calipers are adjusted, the new wheel’s rotor will rub. (We realized this during our most recent tire tests, where we thought we could speed up the changes between different wheel sizes, but had to adjust the disc brake calipers after every run.)

BMC Racing found a work-around solution to the problem: When a rider flats, they don’t change wheels, but the entire bike. However, this also means they no longer can use neutral support. Most other teams weren’t willing to run that risk.


It rings true to me. His waffle about brake feel does not.
Here is a sport where, unlike cycling, braking is decisive. One finger and back wheel off the ground. He doesn't appear to be struggling with feel. :idea:

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby warthog1 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:41 pm

Comedian wrote:
MichaelB wrote:
Thoglette wrote:Meanwhile, a mostly balanced piece from Jan Heine on the topic of the brakes in this year's tour.


Yep, and from an engineering point, this makes sense.....

And many riders find that rim brakes offer superior feel: The brake lever is directly connected to the rim via a cable, rather than having the feedback dulled by the wind-up of the spokes and by hydraulic fluid.


Not. It's both right & wrong.

I note that you excluded a couple of lines from your paragraph snip...

So why did the racers use rim brakes when their sponsors wanted them to use discs? If discs were superior, racers would have used them, especially in the mountains. After all, a real advantage on the many descents of this year’s Tour would have outweighed the relatively small risk of losing time due to a wheel change.

The answer is simple: Really good rim brakes stop just as well as even the best disc brakes. And many riders find that rim brakes offer superior feel: The brake lever is directly connected to the rim via a cable, rather than having the feedback dulled by the wind-up of the spokes and by hydraulic fluid. It’s refreshing that even today, where bike racing has become big business, winning races still is more important than pleasing sponsors.


I'm pretty sure I've been saying this all along. Good rim brakes work really well. This year has shown it - if you have serious aspirations of winning the TDF - you'll probably steer clear of a disc brake bike if you have a choice.

I would never say never to a disc brake bike winning the TDF - but I really don't think it will be for some time, and I think those pesky high performance rim brakes are going to be mucking up the marketing copy for a while.

I don't expect the manufacturers will really care - once they've sold most people a disc bike or two they can sell them a rim bike. "feel how well it handles and rides.. feel how light it is! It climbs like a dream! Look the best climbers at the TDF ride them. Buy Now!"


It remains a garbage paragraph. The bloke really appears clueless in many ways.
I don't think any would argue rim brakes are even remotely close to discs in the wet.
The stupid manufacturers need to sort out a universal size and fitment that doesn't affect wheel changes and brake drag if they want to bring them into the peleton universally.

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Thoglette
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Thoglette » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:23 pm

warthog1 wrote:Here is a sport where, unlike cycling, braking is decisive.

You rest Jan's case.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

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Comedian
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Comedian » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:36 pm

Thoglette wrote:
warthog1 wrote:Here is a sport where, unlike cycling, braking is decisive.

You rest Jan's case.

And from bike snob! :mrgreen:

https://www.outsideonline.com/2330416/praise-wonderfully-retro-bike-tech

Rim Brakes
Rim brakes versus disc brakes? Please. That debate is sooo 2016. Anyway, they’re riding discs in the Tour de France now and as of yet nobody has lost a limb to a hot rotor, so clearly they’re here to stay.

Still, it would be a huge loss for cycling if the disc brake were to take over completely. Instead, we should strive for a state of peaceful coexistence, because the humble rim brake—be it cantilever, linear pull, or caliper—is a sublimely simple yet profoundly effective bit of technology that should always be an option for the rider who puts ease of maintenance first. There are very few situations in which a properly adjusted rim brake won’t provide you with all the stopping power you need and then some. Plus, they make for faster wheel changes, they’re easier to travel with, and you’ve always got an unobstructed view of the current state of your brake pads.

Most importantly, rim brakes don’t always work that great with carbon rims, which discourages you from wasting money on carbon rims.

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