UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

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Comedian
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Comedian » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:45 pm

I hate being a troll/heretic. Luckily it seems I have some company... namely Jan Heine, Editor, Bicycle Quarterly.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/science-and-bicycles-frame-stiffness/

The reduction of stress on the body is mostly due to other factors, like the tires (and pressure) and the fork design. Possibly, the seatstays can affect comfort as well, but the main frame is a fairly stiff structure for “vertical compliance.” I doubt a lighter-weight main triangle is going to affect that much. Obviously, if you are comfortable, not only can you put out more power, but you also enjoy cycling much more.

However, I find fascinating it that even if you can “tough it out” on a super-stiff frame and super-hard tires, you aren’t faster, because they simply are less efficient.


I believe this is the blog post that was the inspiration for this cycling tips podcast, where you can listen to Jan on frame stiffness. I don't can't recally him talking about forks specifically though but I might listen to it again. While it matches my experience - I'll understand if it's not a line of inquiry people might wish to explore.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/06/cyclingtips-podcast-does-frame-stiffness-matter/

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby silentC » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:04 pm

Can someone explain to me why we are trying to convince this guy he should adopt disc brakes?

Comedian, you don't need disc brakes. It's OK to say no :)
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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:07 pm

When blinded to the bike frame, riders are generable unable to pick a "stiff" frame from a "compliant" frame. I'd love to quickly provide the link to the experiment performed but CBA. It's come up before elsewhere.

Tyre pressure had a far greater impact on what sort of frame people thought they were riding.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby biker jk » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:14 pm

silentC wrote:Can someone explain to me why we are trying to convince this guy he should adopt disc brakes?

Comedian, you don't need disc brakes. It's OK to say no :)


I don't believe anyone is trying to convince him to adopt disc brakes. It's more correcting the outrageous claims about weight, maintenance, ride quality, etc. of disc brake road bikes. After being shown to be wrong time and time again, I personally would keep a low profile but some can't avoid the rope-a-dope pummeling.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby silentC » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:30 pm

Sorry I got confused, he keeps telling us why he doesn't want/need them and I forgot what the argument was about :D
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby silentC » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:45 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:When blinded to the bike frame, riders are generable unable to pick a "stiff" frame from a "compliant" frame. I'd love to quickly provide the link to the experiment performed but CBA. It's come up before elsewhere.

Tyre pressure had a far greater impact on what sort of frame people thought they were riding.

I read a book about bike fit and the author had a theory that riders are 'micro' or 'macro' adjusters - meaning that some riders will notice - and complain about - very minor changes in set up whereas others don't notice until the changes become significant. I call it the 'princess and the pea' effect. So frame stiffness is probably similarly subjective. I know I do 95% of my riding on very harsh country road surfaces and I can say that a 10 PSI difference in tyre pressure in the front wheel is quite noticeable in terms of 'feeling the road'. Having ridden both disc and rim-braked carbon bikes I can't say that my disc bike is noticeably harsher.
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:40 am

In any case, we're all a long way OT as this is supposed to be about disk brakes in UCI racing...

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby MichaelB » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:43 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:In any case, we're all a long way OT as this is supposed to be about disk brakes in UCI racing...


SNAP !!!

And really agree re the 'blind' testing - 99% wouldn't tell the difference if we didn't actually know.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby andrewjcw » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:13 pm


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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Mububban » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:53 am

Cycling Canada have approved the use of disc brakes in all road events across Canada. The only exception being UCI sanctioned events where disc brakes continue to be undergoing a trial period.


https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/new ... ss-canada/
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby andrewjcw » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:06 pm

So that makes USA/Aus/Canada as pretty much disc approved for regular club racing. I think in the UK they're still banned though? I wonder what the rules are like in Europe. I'd guess with cx being pretty big over their they're probably allowed, at least in Belgium/Netherlands etc.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby andrewjcw » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:43 am

Another week, another country down. https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about ... rom-2018-0


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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby silentC » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:23 am

But Mr Nieto said that none of the evidence presented at the inquest suggested the brakes had been a factor in her death.

But you know, don't let facts or lack of evidence get in the way of a good gloat :)
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Comedian » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:20 am

silentC wrote:
But Mr Nieto said that none of the evidence presented at the inquest suggested the brakes had been a factor in her death.

But you know, don't let facts or lack of evidence get in the way of a good gloat :)

Thanks. I've been accused of being a troll before incorrectly. Not then though. :mrgreen:

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Sharkey » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:46 am

Comedian wrote:
silentC wrote:
But Mr Nieto said that none of the evidence presented at the inquest suggested the brakes had been a factor in her death.

But you know, don't let facts or lack of evidence get in the way of a good gloat :)

Thanks. I've been accused of being a troll before incorrectly. Not then though. :mrgreen:

Actually I don't even think it was a disc brake bike. If you read the Sun article that is linked in the Road.CC article it doesn't mention disc brakes but says:
Mr Patel said after setting off August noticed a problem with the quick release lever on her front brake, but they sorted the issue out and carried on their route.

Plus the only £1000 Genesis Equilibrium is this non-disc version: Equilibrium 10

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Comedian » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:49 am

Sharkey wrote:
Comedian wrote:
silentC wrote:But you know, don't let facts or lack of evidence get in the way of a good gloat :)

Thanks. I've been accused of being a troll before incorrectly. Not then though. :mrgreen:

Actually I don't even think it was a disc brake bike. If you read the Sun article that is linked in the Road.CC article it doesn't mention disc brakes but says:
Mr Patel said after setting off August noticed a problem with the quick release lever on her front brake, but they sorted the issue out and carried on their route.

Plus the only £1000 Genesis Equilibrium is this non-disc version: Equilibrium 10


They believe that the bike’s disc brakes were faulty, although the coroner presiding over the inquest into her death, which happened in April 2014, has said he does not believe there was a significant issue with them, reports The Sun (link is external).


But what do I know. As I said I've been accused of trolling before in this thread incorrectly. Not this time though. :shock:

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby silentC » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:05 pm

Yeah I was a bit confused by all that. The road.cc story dropped the "on her front brake" so maybe that was an alternate fact in the Sun's story. Hard to imagine both brakes failing simultaneously. More to the story I suspect.
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Sharkey » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:29 pm

Comedian wrote:
Sharkey wrote:
Comedian wrote:Thanks. I've been accused of being a troll before incorrectly. Not then though. :mrgreen:

Actually I don't even think it was a disc brake bike. If you read the Sun article that is linked in the Road.CC article it doesn't mention disc brakes but says:
Mr Patel said after setting off August noticed a problem with the quick release lever on her front brake, but they sorted the issue out and carried on their route.

Plus the only £1000 Genesis Equilibrium is this non-disc version: Equilibrium 10


They believe that the bike’s disc brakes were faulty, although the coroner presiding over the inquest into her death, which happened in April 2014, has said he does not believe there was a significant issue with them, reports The Sun (link is external).


But what do I know. As I said I've been accused of trolling before in this thread incorrectly. Not this time though. :shock:


Yes, I saw the disc brakes mentioned in the Road CC article. I'm just trolling back :lol:

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby biker jk » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:36 pm

There's no evidence that the brakes failed but even if this did occur it would most likely have been poorly adjusted CABLE disc brakes and not any issue with hydraulic disc brakes. One scenario is that cable stretch and/or pad wear saw the levers bottom out on the bars without slowing the bike. Of course this problem can occur with rim brakes. So nice own goal by Comedian once again. :lol:

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby RonK » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:49 pm

biker jk wrote:One scenario is that cable stretch and/or pad wear saw the levers bottom out on the bars without slowing the bike. Of course this problem can occur with rim brakes.

This has happened to me on my disc brake equipped bike. But I have never experience such rapid pad wear on any of my rim brake equipped bikes.
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby biker jk » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:02 pm

RonK wrote:
biker jk wrote:One scenario is that cable stretch and/or pad wear saw the levers bottom out on the bars without slowing the bike. Of course this problem can occur with rim brakes.

This has happened to me on my disc brake equipped bike. But I have never experience such rapid pad wear on any of my rim brake equipped bikes.


If the bike had not been used for a while and not properly maintained (as in the example cited) then this could happen with rim brakes. Indeed, I once helped a rider with a loose headset and when applying the brakes to check the adjustment the levers went all the way to the bar and had next to no braking force.

I also recall a deadly crash where a female cyclist couldn't brake properly with rim brakes. In that case, hydraulic disc brakes would have saved her life.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby silentC » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:16 pm

At the inquest at Chesterfield Coroners’ Court, Mr Patel said that Ms Atkinson had owned the bike for eight months but had “only been out on it a few times.”


Unlikely to be pad wear, or any wear I guess.

Poor maintenance or operator error most likely. I suppose you have to give the benefit of the doubt to the coroner, who was actually presented with all the evidence :)
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby warthog1 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:06 pm

She screamed "my brakes have gone" before hitting the dry stone wall.
Using my razor sharp detective skills. I'm tipping there may have been a problem with her brakes. ;)

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby biker jk » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:11 pm

warthog1 wrote:She screamed "my brakes have gone" before hitting the dry stone wall.
Using my razor sharp detective skills. I'm tipping there may have been a problem with her brakes. ;)


Alternatively, she may have been fatigued and/or had numb hands (ulnar nerve compressed).

The police collision investigation unit concluded there were "no significant issues" with the brakes but found the rear tyre was "significantly underinflated".

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