Punishment pass

User avatar
outnabike
Posts: 2171
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Punishment pass

Postby outnabike » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:48 pm

Probably a Moron Motorist play, but I thought I would post separately so I can find it easier later.
I have made a template on a garage door as a calibration and this car came well within the close range. It is just tape on a wall but it gives me some idea on the cameras angle of view from my bike.
Image


I reckon I will take this incident into the police for review. I am in a two lane road and then get a punishment pass from a black Mazda Sedan with a white or silver bonnet.

Image

This pic shows a close pass. Very deliberately done, and under hard acceleration.

Image

I overlay the calibrated pic over and cut the opacity.

Image
Vivente World Randonneur complete with panniers

User avatar
outnabike
Posts: 2171
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: Punishment pass

Postby outnabike » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:58 pm

Boy it was a close pass, but it always looks different on film. It seemed It was not far from my elbow when it went by my front wheel.
The pass shows the intent, and the angle of approach.

Image

And the plate for good luck
Image
Vivente World Randonneur complete with panniers

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 10002
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Punishment pass

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:56 pm

TQF849 is a grey 2005 Mazda sedan.

TOF849 is apparently a grey VW sedan, also 2005.

User avatar
outnabike
Posts: 2171
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: Punishment pass

Postby outnabike » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:56 pm

Thanks mate, I just wasn't sure on that Q, much appreciated.
Vivente World Randonneur complete with panniers

User avatar
cyclotaur
Posts: 1543
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:36 pm

Re: Punishment pass

Postby cyclotaur » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:04 pm

g-boaf wrote:TQF849 is a grey 2005 Mazda sedan.

TOF849 is apparently a grey VW sedan, also 2005.
Interesting post ....


Sent from my iPhinger ...
Here's my blog - A bit of fun :)
"Riding not racing...."

User avatar
bychosis
Posts: 5734
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Punishment pass

Postby bychosis » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:09 pm

Taking that to the constabulary?

I like the calibration lines, but think that having them on the ground would be more beneficial for determining the clearance at any range, not just at the distance that you are away from the door.

I now deliberately walk my bike up the same line in the driveway and can then relate the image to specific other lines in the drive if necessary. Having them on the ground will enable me to determine how wide the passer is at a range from immediately in front of the bike to a few metres in front.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

User avatar
Carrots
Posts: 429
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:50 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Punishment pass

Postby Carrots » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:22 pm

I wonder how many times it's pure ignorance. Looking at the pic they're right on the lane marker.

That said ignorance doesn't excuse stupidity.

User avatar
ValleyForge
Posts: 1699
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Punishment pass

Postby ValleyForge » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:32 pm

Given that the "calibration lines" represent an angular line from the camera dependant on distance from the lens, and that the camera isn't completely perpendicular to the calibration screen, I suspect it won't hold weight in court.

But it is a completely reckless passing manoeuvre.

I wonder if there is anyone in law enforcement or a plaintiff lawyer in the asylum here who might shed some light on what's admissible or robust in court.

Oh and how can you trace ownership from rego plates? I'm fascinated.
Ha ha ha! Cookies on dowels.

warthog1
Posts: 7211
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Punishment pass

Postby warthog1 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:44 pm

cyclotaur wrote:
g-boaf wrote:TQF849 is a grey 2005 Mazda sedan.

TOF849 is apparently a grey VW sedan, also 2005.
Interesting post ....


Sent from my iPhinger ...

I can't link it because I'm on tapatalk, however oxford recently put up a "plate search sites" post in the general discussion forum. That is how you can come up wit the car year and model based on a rego number.


Blame tapatalk

landyacht
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:07 pm

Re: Punishment pass

Postby landyacht » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:48 pm

I do notice thet the mazda sedan only just managed to stay in its lane whilst passing you, presumably there would be a high risk of it coming close to theer traffic whilst avaoiding you.
I would personally put this one down to ignorance and be glad the truck that passed before the mazda was that bit further out

User avatar
Xplora
Posts: 8272
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
Location: TL;DR

Re: Punishment pass

Postby Xplora » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:17 pm

The more I see this stuff, the more I have concluded that there is "too much" judgment involved in managing passing with bicycles, both for the rider and the driver. Cars clearly have no idea what is a reasonable distance, but they certainly think they can judge a safe pass to a poofteenth.

I feel car drivers have to choose much slower speed limits, or complete lane changes as a minimum. Anything less than half a lane means law broken. Bikes are supposed to be in the middle of the lane.

I understand where your frustration comes from, outna, but I reckon your body language has to say "I'm HERE, knuckleheads". I'm doing very little road riding lately, and ended up coming downhill on a very main drag in my area. Haven't had cars hassle me, but I'm also clearly trying to ride at the speed limit and change from this particular lane. I think cars realise that they aren't going to achieve anything passing certain riders, but feel they achieve something with other riders.

The only solution is stripping car rights, imo. Cyclists can't make them do anything, so the law must instead.

Nobody
Posts: 9009
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Punishment pass

Postby Nobody » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:21 pm

warthog1 wrote:I can't link it because I'm on tapatalk, however oxford recently put up a "plate search sites" post in the general discussion forum. That is how you can come up wit the car year and model based on a rego number.

viewtopic.php?t=77124&p=1151839#p1151670

warthog1
Posts: 7211
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Punishment pass

Postby warthog1 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:29 pm



Thanks :)


Blame tapatalk

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 10002
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Punishment pass

Postby g-boaf » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:11 pm

cyclotaur wrote:
g-boaf wrote:TQF849 is a grey 2005 Mazda sedan.

TOF849 is apparently a grey VW sedan, also 2005.
Interesting post ....


Sent from my iPhinger ...


Don't worry - I didn't use any official systems to do it. I'm not part of the law-enforcement. ;) There are some useful rego search websites put online by Govt. agencies.

Xplora wrote:but I'm also clearly trying to ride at the speed limit and change from this particular lane. I think cars realise that they aren't going to achieve anything passing certain riders, but feel they achieve something with other riders.

The only solution is stripping car rights, imo. Cyclists can't make them do anything, so the law must instead.


Riding at the speed limit doesn't help all that much either. The MGIF mentality rules with some of these motorists. They'll waste their fuel and use their brakes heavily just to be ahead going into a roundabout. You just want to scream at them, why?!?!? :roll:

Tbanger
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:33 am
Location: Australia

Re: Punishment pass

Postby Tbanger » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:09 am

g-boaf wrote:
cyclotaur wrote:
g-boaf wrote:TQF849 is a grey 2005 Mazda sedan.

TOF849 is apparently a grey VW sedan, also 2005.
Interesting post ....


Sent from my iPhinger ...


Don't worry - I didn't use any official systems to do it. I'm not part of the law-enforcement. ;) There are some useful rego search websites put online by Govt. agencies.

Xplora wrote:but I'm also clearly trying to ride at the speed limit and change from this particular lane. I think cars realise that they aren't going to achieve anything passing certain riders, but feel they achieve something with other riders.

The only solution is stripping car rights, imo. Cyclists can't make them do anything, so the law must instead.


Riding at the speed limit doesn't help all that much either. The MGIF mentality rules with some of these motorists. They'll waste their fuel and use their brakes heavily just to be ahead going into a roundabout. You just want to scream at them, why?!?!? :roll:



which websites are they?? ( i would love to have access to those resources)
I am aware you work for the Government, are they Government sites or accessible to the public??

Cul
Posts: 548
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:58 pm

Re: Punishment pass

Postby Cul » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:42 am

Tbanger wrote: which websites are they?? ( i would love to have access to those resources)
I am aware you work for the Government, are they Government sites or accessible to the public??


The VicRoads website has a registration enquiry service, that can provide details on vehicle make, model, vin, engine number and whether or not the vehicle is currently registered.
http://vre.vicroads.vic.gov.au/ :idea:
My Training & Racing Blog: http://mountainbikemediocrity.wordpress.com
Fuelled By: Pro4mance

User avatar
Xplora
Posts: 8272
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
Location: TL;DR

Re: Punishment pass

Postby Xplora » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:53 am

g-boaf wrote:Riding at the speed limit doesn't help all that much either. The MGIF mentality rules with some of these motorists. They'll waste their fuel and use their brakes heavily just to be ahead going into a roundabout. You just want to scream at them, why?!?!? :roll:

Yep, that's why I made the comment on a "particular" spot, because I know it's a red flag to a bull, but I rarely have issues even in heavy peak hour. There is something about certain spots which makes drivers desperate for a pass. And something about other spots which make them less desperate. I know I have enormous problems commuting at 20kmh recovery pace instead of 30kmh threshold oh crud I'm late pace.

The problem is that I can't recommend commuting at 50kmh because its not physically sustainable. For anyone. So where does that leave us? Compel drivers to behave or risk losing their right to drive (licence) or their ability to drive (jail). I hardly feel its palatable, I prefer driving fast too, but I think our road rules often favour practical over preferable. :idea:

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 10002
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Punishment pass

Postby g-boaf » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:25 am

Tbanger wrote:I am aware you work for the Government, are they Government sites or accessible to the public??


Vic Government actually: http://vre.vicroads.vic.gov.au/

Got it through a google search. NSW has something similar:
http://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transacti ... ry-vehicle

They are primarily for people looking to buy a vehicle. I'm not involved in anything motor-vehicle or roads related so I've got only as much information as anyone else here. Even if I did have access to more, I wouldn't be permitted to do that anyway.

User avatar
outnabike
Posts: 2171
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: Punishment pass

Postby outnabike » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:36 am

outnabike wrote:
And the plate for good luck
Image


I am a fair way from the gutter and doing just under 20 kph. It is a two lane but wide lanes. If you go further into the gutter they will shave you every time. This is Greens road in Dandenong and I came in off the South Gippsland Highway from Cranbourne. Just testing the rear cam position a Sony 10 .The front cam is a normal camera on movie mode and playing up, but just testing it.
This was around 1.30 pm and not that bussy but the traffic comes in waves. I have to say it is just not safe to ride the gutter and yet the big trucks though passing safely seem not to know how close the come in with the rear wheels.Or are just not caring.
If you want to get blown at with horns , this is the place to do it. I really don't want to be dead right re this bit of road.

I thought in the calibration process a one metre distanc would be Ok, but understand your point. I will do the lines on the ground trick and also number the metres off along the line.The distance from the bike is the main thing to capture.
Vivente World Randonneur complete with panniers

User avatar
BianchiCam
Posts: 667
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:42 pm
Location: Sunny Coast. Oop Norf!

Re: Punishment pass

Postby BianchiCam » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:36 am

Good thread.
The more of us that use this 'calibration', the (hopefully, better outcome should we need to take it further)

Cam

warthog1
Posts: 7211
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Punishment pass

Postby warthog1 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:56 am

Tbanger wrote:which websites are they?? ( i would love to have access to those resources)


See this thread;


Tbanger
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:33 am
Location: Australia

Re: Punishment pass

Postby Tbanger » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:59 am

warthog1 wrote:
Tbanger wrote:which websites are they?? ( i would love to have access to those resources)


See this thread;




Thanks for that warthog.

warthog1
Posts: 7211
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: Punishment pass

Postby warthog1 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:10 pm

Oxford wrote:You should post in the thread and ask for it to be made sticky, that way you never miss it.


+1
Should be a sticky, great resource :)

User avatar
Xplora
Posts: 8272
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
Location: TL;DR

Re: Punishment pass

Postby Xplora » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:18 pm

I had a sticky at the GoogleMaps for the area - you're on a hiding to nothing with that one. That is the kind of area that encourages MGIF in a big way - there is a perception that they can go faster, big two lane road divided in the middle.

I would avoid it, but where else to go? The only solution I see is claim more of the lane or accept that you'll be shaved. I typically have a response pattern to shaves... the closer they get, the more lane I take. Does this frustrate other motorists? Yep. But you have to engage the part of their brain that says "I am not sure I can safely do this, and avoid police attention". Sitting in the middle of the lane definitely takes away the option of accidental close shaves. The scary part is that it dramatically increases your chance of a rear ender, but I think we'd all accept that this is a possibility regardless.

User avatar
jules21
Posts: 10386
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: Punishment pass

Postby jules21 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:18 pm

Xplora wrote:Sitting in the middle of the lane definitely takes away the option of accidental close shaves. The scary part is that it dramatically increases your chance of a rear ender

how so? i don't agree. you can get rear-ended while towards the LHS too. rear-enders are almost always (with extremely rare exceptions) failure to identify the hazard (cyclist) - being in the middle of the lane arguably reduces that risk.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users