Gearing Options for Peaks Challenge Falls Creek

[queequeg]

Some people have a lot more money than I have!!

I can't disagree, but while I struggle to even justify the cost of a race licence I can't justify the cost of a power meter. I'd rather spend the money elsewhere Besides, sometimes the data takes away from the simple pleasure of riding the bike. Surprising how different it feels when you throw away all the metrics (including the speedo) and just ride!

I'm not going to deny any of the costs. I've managed almost 8 years without a power meter, but have struggled a bit at the top end of racing in A Grade in the last 6 months. I splashed out this year on adding power to my bikes and I am yet to deep dive into numbers and training plans as I am in Stage 1,which is just go and ride and capture the data without being too worried about it.

I rode the Fitz Epic last year on 36/28 and managed it quite well by keeping my HR at a target of 85% max. On the hills that meant really backing off, but I finished the ride having done under 2min threshold effort. I was riding with another guy from our club and he was using Power. I was quite surprised at some of the numbers he was calling out, but he's a big guy (well, he was back then!). I had to rein him in so he didn't pop, reminding him that this is a 210km ride.

[jules21]

in my experience, HR is useless on those long endurance rides. as you tire, your HR drops for the same effort. you can be deceived into thinking you are not working hard.

[queequeg]

in my experience, HR is useless on those long endurance rides. as you tire, your HR drops for the same effort. you can be deceived into thinking you are not working hard.

Yep, that's one of the reasons I added power this year. I'm almost at Stage 2, which is the FTP test. Once in have my baseline, the power zones will start making some sense. I will be curious to see what my power curve looks like after the State TTT on Saturday. I've been told to be prepared to go deep into the red

[BugsBunny]

Got too many options and looking for opinions: Having another crack at Peaks Falls Creek next year and want to change my gearing. 2015 I ran a 12-30 cassette on standard crank (Ui2 10 speed) without issues except the climb at 200km cracked me (got up the steep bit but hammered the legs too much to continue without a rest). So I want an extra gear for next year.

Trying to decide whether I'm better off buying a compact crankset or a longer cage RD and bigger cassette (I can get 11-32 and 11-34 cassettes). The longer cage RD will involve taking my race bike instead of my daily ride (Ui2 RDs are too expensive even if I CAN find one). Compact crankset will allow me to use EITHER bike except that it's hard to find used cranksets at reasonable price for my Ui2 bike (386evo BB with Rotor 3Df cranks - the race bike has Shimano 7900 cranks.) Note that any changes I make will be temporary - I'll be reverting to my current set-up when I get back home (no hills worth mentioning here).

Cheers

Alan

I've done a full transplant, changing the chainrings from 52/36 to 50/34 and the cassette from 11-28 to 11-32 and from short to mid cage derailleur. As we all have different fitness/power levels - I can share that FOR ME, this setup has helped me ride better - mainly in the area of helping me increase my cadence on steep climbs. In my experience, what you should do is depending on the gradient and your climbing cadence preference - ie what you find optimal over the course of your ride.

If there are some steep extended pitches and they take a LOT out of your legs as you are just grinding at really low RPMs, then thats a good reason for doing the swap.

For me any climb where I am dipping below 60 RPM for an period of say 3min+ takes a lot out of me.

[jules21]

For me any climb where I am dipping below 60 RPM for an period of say 3min+ takes a lot out of me.

it will take a lot out of anyone. 60rpm is well below what is an efficient cadence under load for any rider.

[BugsBunny]

Hi Jules....

Yeah 60 is really the lower limit - although in some parts of where I ride there are 18% pitches, and I'm griding down to 40 RPM. But I'm somewhat stuck as I've done pretty all I can gearing upgrade wise. My ideal climbing cadence is around 70-75 ish.

I'm now left with only a hacking option by adding a Roadlink derailleur extension, 11-36 SRAM cassette. This should get me about an extra 10RPM. Or, changing for MTB RD and 11-40 - as I run SRAM these are interchangable.

[eeksll]

Hi Jules....

Yeah 60 is really the lower limit - although in some parts of where I ride there are 18% pitches, and I'm griding down to 40 RPM. But I'm somewhat stuck as I've done pretty all I can gearing upgrade wise. My ideal climbing cadence is around 70-75 ish.

I'm now left with only a hacking option by adding a Roadlink derailleur extension, 11-36 SRAM cassette. This should get me about an extra 10RPM. Or, changing for MTB RD and 11-40 - as I run SRAM these are interchangable.

riding often on hill that steep I'd be considering a triple!

[alanfw]

You guys crack me up!!! Nearly ALL my riding is done on a 53/39 with a 12/23 cassette - but that's because the longest climb where I live is barely 400m!! I WISH I had climbs near home that made me need gears that low... it's hard to train for a Peaks ride in a place like this

[queequeg]

You guys crack me up!!! Nearly ALL my riding is done on a 53/39 with a 12/23 cassette - but that's because the longest climb where I live is barely 400m!! I WISH I had climbs near home that made me need gears that low... it's hard to train for a Peaks ride in a place like this

I live in the "Hills District" of Sydney, which should give a clue as to the terrain. Most hills are just fine on 53/39 with an 11-28. For anything under 5% I don't even bother with the small ring.

That said, there are quite a few climbs where the gradients are well into double digits, and some of the local hills are in the 20% range. Not for long, but into walking territory with the wrong gearing.

I'm going for a 50/34 setup solely because my "hilly" rides tend to be 200km+ Long with 4,000m+ of elevation gain. It's at about the 6 or 7 hour mark that you will curse the lack of an easier gear to avoid grinding.
I am planning further out for next year when I'll be doing nothing but climbing for 21 days straight, something like 2,700km and 60,000m+ elevation gain. After Day 3 I'll probably be wishing for a mid-cage derailleur and 32t cassette (I'm going with a 34/28 as my max, as I don't want to blow another $300 swapping the derailleur). I should manage that without too many issues. I'll advise after the Fitz Epic, which I did on 36/28 last year.

[AndrewCowley]

If you are using a 10 speed set up, then you may wish to consider this 12-28 cassette from the lower end of the Shimano range.

http://www.this link is broken.au/shimano-cs-hg5 ... 11-2512-28

The ratios are as follows: 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28

The 25 tooth cog is nice for climbing. You don't get it on the Shimano 105 12-27 or the Shimano Ultegra 11-28.

Of course if you are going to upsize to a cassette with really low gearing then this is a mute point.

[BugsBunny]

I'm going for a 50/34 setup solely because my "hilly" rides tend to be 200km+ Long with 4,000m+ of elevation gain. It's at about the 6 or 7 hour mark that you will curse the lack of an easier gear to avoid grinding.
I am planning further out for next year when I'll be doing nothing but climbing for 21 days straight, something like 2,700km and 60,000m+ elevation gain. After Day 3 I'll probably be wishing for a mid-cage derailleur and 32t cassette (I'm going with a 34/28 as my max, as I don't want to blow another $300 swapping the derailleur). I should manage that without too many issues. I'll advise after the Fitz Epic, which I did on 36/28 last year.

If you are using Shimano Ultegra (and DA9000) then you can still use the short cage RD with an 11-32 Ultegra cassette. (Not sure if it works with 105). Two of my mates have just done that (both on Ultegra 6800 DI2). Its not officially recommended by Shimano but its a hack that works. So you should be able to save on the RD costs. If you are on SRAM, I just went with the Rival mid cage RD which from memory is about USD$50.

[Duck!]

After Day 3 I'll probably be wishing for a mid-cage derailleur and 32t cassette (I'm going with a 34/28 as my max, as I don't want to blow another $300 swapping the derailleur).

What's your spec? As pointed out above (and as I have multiple times before), 32T doesn't necessarily mean a medium cage is essential (but recommended if you have a wider range compact or mid-compact chainring pair and a habit of big-big crosschaining). Dura-Ace might do it, but doesn't have the linkage geometry to kick the derailleur low enough to guarantee the sprocket clearance in low gears. Early version pre-2012 5700 105, pre-2013 6700 Ultegra and all 6770 rear derailleurs also don't have the necessary link geometry, but might be pushed into co-operation if your frame's derailleur hanger is on the longer side. Cage length doesn't help.

4600 Tiagra, Post-2012 5701, post-2013 6701 and new 6770-A (essentially a 6870 body with 6770 internals) 10-sp, and 5800, 6800 & 6870 11-sp. derailleurs all have the necessary geometry to clear 32T; again cage length is irrelevant to clearance, but the longer cage gives the chain length insurance for wider-ranged chainrings and big crosschaining. Short will generally do it, but if in doubt simply avoid that gear combination!

In the case of SRAM, unlike Shimano they actually have completely different derailleurs for standard and long (WiFLi) forms; standard will not fit bigger than 28T, the body simply isn't long enough. WiFLi variants have a longer body for big sprocket clearance, plus the longer cage for the chain length insurance. At present E-Tap is only available with standard derailleur length.

[queequeg]

After Day 3 I'll probably be wishing for a mid-cage derailleur and 32t cassette (I'm going with a 34/28 as my max, as I don't want to blow another $300 swapping the derailleur).

What's your spec? As pointed out above (and as I have multiple times before), 32T doesn't necessarily mean a medium cage is essential (but recommended if you have a wider range compact or mid-compact chainring pair and a habit of big-big crosschaining). Dura-Ace might do it, but doesn't have the linkage geometry to kick the derailleur low enough to guarantee the sprocket clearance in low gears. Early version pre-2012 5700 105, pre-2013 6700 Ultegra and all 6770 rear derailleurs also don't have the necessary link geometry, but might be pushed into co-operation if your frame's derailleur hanger is on the longer side. Cage length doesn't help.

4600 Tiagra, Post-2012 5701, post-2013 6701 and new 6770-A (essentially a 6870 body with 6770 internals) 10-sp, and 5800, 6800 & 6870 11-sp. derailleurs all have the necessary geometry to clear 32T; again cage length is irrelevant to clearance, but the longer cage gives the chain length insurance for wider-ranged chainrings and big crosschaining. Short will generally do it, but if in doubt simply avoid that gear combination!

In the case of SRAM, unlike Shimano they actually have completely different derailleurs for standard and long (WiFLi) forms; standard will not fit bigger than 28T, the body simply isn't long enough. WiFLi variants have a longer body for big sprocket clearance, plus the longer cage for the chain length insurance. At present E-Tap is only available with standard derailleur length.

The build kit supplied with the frame includes a mid-compact crank and a SRAM Red22 Short Cage Derailleur (the build kit being SRAM Red22).

I have the option before I do anything to simply go buy the WiFli Red22 RD, but it's over $300 and I'm not sure how much I'd make back on the one I have (unless someone has a new WiFli version they want to swap)

I am going to swap the mid-compact for 50/34 rings with a p2max and keep the S952 Cranks.

I feel like I am stuck in an analysis paralysis loop! If I can't push a 6.5kg R5 up a hill with 34/28, I'm not sure how much difference that one extra gear will make. All the cassettes I have seen basically jump from 28 to 30 or 32. I have a SRAM Rival WiFli RD on my commuter bike, so if it really came to it, presumably I could "borrow" the RD off my commuter bike just for the 3 weeks (or just get another one, as it was only $67)

[Duck!]

I'd just borrow the derailleur from the other bike if you're only going to use it for a short time.

[queequeg]

I'd just borrow the derailleur from the other bike if you're only going to use it for a short time.

I just bit the Bullet and ordered the WiFLi version of the Red22 RD and an 11-32 cassette. I am offloading the Short Cage one, but if it doesn't sell then I have a spare. I didn't like the idea of using my main commuter bike as a Donor for parts, which is now a complete SRAM Rival Setup (Apex parts replaced as they wore out). Don't ask me why, but the Rival parts were cheaper than Apex replacements.

If I can't survive the Haute Route on a 6.5kg R5 with 34/32 gearing then I should just give up cycling!