training advice appreciated

[newierider]

ok thanks guys.

i think i might do a different route next week though, i dont think the terrain in this location helped me much (the bumps and jolts to the body), sometimes some of the steep downhills suddenly turn into what most would consider a cyclocoross track it got that bad! and not so safe at times.. from what i can gather the L'Etape route has decent roads.

i will plan another route that is 120k and 2000m hills.

so im assuming doing this big ride with only 5 rest / easy days before the event is all ok? i should be fully recovered in time?

[g-boaf]

That's a good precaution to take, this close to L'Etape, if you can get the distance and elevation on a safer route, then go for it.

For the final week, I'd merely just do some easy, low intensity rides. Nothing strenuous, just keep your legs turning. And the result of that, by the day of your event, you'll feel really fresh, rested and very strong. That's what is called tapering.

With the volume of training you've done, you'll probably recover pretty quickly. If we were tracking all of this in something like Training Peaks, your CTL will probably be getting a lot higher by now, and your TSB will probably go up to zero or positive numbers fairly quickly. Which basically means you are getting fitter. TSB is training stress balance, or your form. Numbers below zero indicate that you are tired/fatigued, above zero indicates rested. The CTL is chronic training load, the effects of training over time. This is basically the volume of training you are doing and you generally expect to see that going up steadily, which in your case, summarising this topic is pretty much what would have been happening, almost perfectly.

[newierider]

thanks g-boaf. interesting stuff! i might look into signing up to training peaks after christmas. seems like a great way to accurately track my fitness.

[g-boaf]

thanks g-boaf. interesting stuff! i might look into signing up to training peaks after christmas. seems like a great way to accurately track my fitness.

I'll show you what it is in time. No need to worry about it now- and it's really only needed when you want to track things very carefully. Strava I think has something broadly similar.

[newierider]

regarding the race, as i am riding alone and there will be a lot of people riding as a teams.. how should i go about drafting.. if i can even manage to keep up with anyone!

should i just look out for other solo riders and ask if they want to work together? not sure about the etiquette! i could really do with the help!

[g-boaf]

Just beware of riders with different abilities. You can always talk to other riders and organise something on the go.

You don't even necessarily have to follow the wheel of another rider that closely to get the benefit either. Be careful and cautious!

If you are doing that, you've got to indicate hazards ahead and all the other usual things, and most of all keep a steady pace and ride smoothly. And the other rider should do that for you as well.

I think you will go fine even without help from other riders.

[usernameforme]

Agree with g-boaf, but I'd like to add that even if you are riding alone, I won't be surprised if you happen to find yourself in a 'group' with people of similar abilities. If that's the case just follow the advice above. Make sure you point out obstacles, but there's no need to point out a log on the other side of the road... Just things that you (or someone behind you) would need to change their line to avoid. Keep an eye out for glass, potholes and sticks in your path.

I'd say people are generally happy for you to ride with them, even if you don't do any work. From what I saw at Fitz's challenge in the ACT people generally rode in groups that seemed to spontaneously form. If you're a stronger rider in your group do try and pull a few turns, but don't interrupt the 'rhythm' that's been established. Unless there's a hill sprint or something try to work with the people that you're riding with, so try to keep the pace even - don't accelerate when you're on the front, and slow down *slightly* so the next guy doesn't need to accelerate to get to the front.

[Abby]

I'm guessing there'll be some pretty big bunches forming up on the roads, so don't stress to much about finding a group to work with - I suspect they'll find you!

If a big bunch comes along at your pace, then just join in (no need to ask permission - it's an event, not a private bunch). If the bunch is working well, try to work in and don't disrupt the 'flow'.

If it's just a big amorphous bunch of riders - sit in and enjoy the rest (and take the occasional turn, but don't overdo that).

Key is to not join a bunch that's waaay above your level (or you'll cook yourself trying to stay in it), but also not drift in a group that's waaay to slow (or you'll waste too much time in it). There'll be plenty in between though - just remember to use them effectively to your advantage. At various times they'll either give you a free ride or rest to help you recover, or an opportunity to make up some time with a fastish bunch that you can work in without going into the red zone...

Have really enjoyed following your journey on here. Thanks for sharing it, and best of luck!!

[newierider]

Thanks guys!
Your advice is very much appreciated.
I have managed to find out that i am in the third wave and my wave has around 800 riders in it.
Apparently theres just over 900 in the fourth wave.

The race pretty much starts on a hill which im not that happy about. Its not full on but its also not exactly easy. I prefer warming up on flat! Plus the hills are my weak point due to my weight. Once over this hill its a pretty massive downhill, close to 15/20k. That being said, should i push pretty hard on this hill so i dont start off getting pushed right back? As i should have quite a lot of time to recover... or should i just go at my own pace?

[Derny Driver]

I doubt everyone will go racing off like bats out of hell. Its not a race and people have 160 km to do. So you should be able to start at your own pace. If it looks like 800 people are all going to get in front of you and in your way, then maybe push it a bit. But in reality, even if there are 100 'beat you' up the hill, they will all spread out on the downhill and wont be in your way. You may end up in a pack or group of some sort and get towed along.
You need to be careful. These sorts of gran fondos are dangerous due to the number of riders, and the differing skill levels (or lack of skills). After my son got taken down in a crash 2 years in a row at the B2B, we don't do gran fondos any more despite Cycling NSW and CA pushing them (they are massive money earners). In a proper sanctioned and graded race, the risks are much less. Gran fondos are a dogs breakfast. So be careful.

[ironhanglider]

You can always warm up before the official start if you like.

A hill start is a good thing, it will sort people into groups by natural selection. Ultimately the people that you will spend the most time with on the day will be those with similar climbing ability to you. If it was a flat start then you end up with a bunch that has a much greater spread of ability which can then catch you out when the road goes up as the fast climbers ride away from the slow. If a faster rider gets caught behind slower ones on a hill he might get left behind a group that he might otherwise have ridden with and not see them again until the finish.

I presume the start is at the Bullock's Flat Skitube terminal. I know the climb quite well, it is steep enough and long enough to bite those who attack it with too much enthusiasm at the bottom but it won't really deplete you for later on. Even better the first descent is both fast and non-technical (it has one left hand bend that you barely need to get out of an aero tuck for). It is quite likely that this will be your max speed for the day (My fastest recorded was 96km/h, but I also did it a few times without a computer). I never did have to negotiate that bend in the company of other riders though...

I am still in awe of your determination and commitment to preparing for this ride. I am doing the Giro Della Donna this weekend. I have done very little in the way of training for it, although I have prepared my #2 bike for the purpose. I do ride 250km/week to just get me to and from work. I have glued new(ish) tyres on to my crit (therefore light but cheap) wheels, I have removed my unicorn 7400 rear derailler and replaced it with a 500EX, which allowed me to fit some 10spd brifters to replace the down-tube shifters. I gave the bike a decent ride last weekend which determined that my seat was too low (different shoe/pedal combination), and my right hand brake hood was too high, and that my stem was too long. All easy fixes, and I might ride that bike tomorrow (with different wheels) to make sure that everything is happy.

I'm trying to ride slower this week and get some more sleep, because recovery will make the biggest difference to my performance IMO. I contrast my lack of preparation to yours, and whilst I am confident that I will make the distance (including the extra from parking further away), I will have to rely on good old G&D in order to finish.

I'm looking forward to hearing your ride report from the event.

Cheers,

Cameron

[g-boaf]

Thanks guys!
Your advice is very much appreciated.
I have managed to find out that i am in the third wave and my wave has around 800 riders in it.
Apparently theres just over 900 in the fourth wave.

The race pretty much starts on a hill which im not that happy about. Its not full on but its also not exactly easy. I prefer warming up on flat! Plus the hills are my weak point due to my weight. Once over this hill its a pretty massive downhill, close to 15/20k. That being said, should i push pretty hard on this hill so i dont start off getting pushed right back? As i should have quite a lot of time to recover... or should i just go at my own pace?

Okay don't worry too much about the hill start, just pace yourself and get through it, don't go out too hard. Let the others blow themselves up and you'll get them back later.

You've trained with a decent amount of hills in your rides, you'll be okay.

Also, forget about max speeds, don't get into that trap, descend at speeds you are comfortable with. Doing 100km/h won't make much difference overall, but if it goes wrong, it's going to really hurt. And with others around too, better to be cautious. I think I'm echoing Derny Driver again.

[newierider]

thanks for your thoughts guys, all great subjects to think about.

re. max speeds, 72 is as fast as ive ever gone.. and thats more than enough for me, im reasonably comfortable at 60, im not into taking risks and will probably try to sit at that speed on the long downhill, possibly even slower depending on how many people are around me etc..

check out todays weather in thredbo!!! cold!
https://www.thredbo.com.au/mountain/weather-report/
it even snowed lastnight, crazy.

at least hydration shouldnt be too hard!

any tips on clothing for this event would also be much appreciated. im thinking something under the jersey, leg warmers and arm warmers. maybe even wind jacket?, maybe even long sleeve jersey..

[Abby]

One of the biggest newbie mistakes ever is over-cooking yourself waaaay too early. Try not to let your enthusiasm get away from you on that first hill. Just smile as people attack it, knowing you'll see most of them later as you pass them on the side of the road...

Also - that first looong downhill has danger written all over it. Definitely do not take any risks on that descent. And make sure you are really observant and looking ahead for any crashes. If you find yourself near anyone on the descent who is riding really messily, then ease on the brakes and let them get away from you...

Can't way to read your race report...!!

[Derny Driver]

any tips on clothing for this event would also be much appreciated. im thinking something under the jersey, leg warmers and arm warmers. maybe even wind jacket?, maybe even long sleeve jersey..

I would wear:
sleeveless undershirt, jersey, gillet and armwarmers.
Leg warmers fall down and are a nuisance.

[g-boaf]

One of the biggest newbie mistakes ever is over-cooking yourself waaaay too early. Try not to let your enthusiasm get away from you on that first hill. Just smile as people attack it, knowing you'll see most of them later as you pass them on the side of the road...

Also - that first looong downhill has danger written all over it. Definitely do not take any risks on that descent. And make sure you are really observant and looking ahead for any crashes. If you find yourself near anyone on the descent who is riding really messily, then ease on the brakes and let them get away from you...

Can't way to read your race report...!!

This is great advice, and also descend and corner on the drop section of the bars, this will get your weight down lower and you'll have a lot more control.

On the flat sections, the drops will give you a little more speed or save you some energy. How long you use them there I guess depends on how comfortable you are and how long you can stay tucked down like that. Some people have too aggressive setups on their bikes and aren't sufficiently flexible enough to ride a really low/aggressive position for a long time without discomfort.

[newierider]

thanks guys, re.abby comment, fortunately im pretty well behaved when the adrenalin kicks in ESPECIALLY on hills ive done enough training now to know how long i can realistically hold certain wattages etc.. hopefully i will remember this on the day! will definitely have my wits about me on the downhill. ive created a very brief course breakdown on my top tube and will make a note there

[newierider]

One of the biggest newbie mistakes ever is over-cooking yourself waaaay too early. Try not to let your enthusiasm get away from you on that first hill. Just smile as people attack it, knowing you'll see most of them later as you pass them on the side of the road...

Also - that first looong downhill has danger written all over it. Definitely do not take any risks on that descent. And make sure you are really observant and looking ahead for any crashes. If you find yourself near anyone on the descent who is riding really messily, then ease on the brakes and let them get away from you...

Can't way to read your race report...!!

This is great advice, and also descend and corner on the drop section of the bars, this will get your weight down lower and you'll have a lot more control.

On the flat sections, the drops will give you a little more speed or save you some energy. How long you use them there I guess depends on how comfortable you are and how long you can stay tucked down like that. Some people have too aggressive setups on their bikes and aren't sufficiently flexible enough to ride a really low/aggressive position for a long time without discomfort.

thanks g-boaf, yeah i always descend on the drops, your right, so much more control. im not that great on the drops for long periods on flat, but i will definitely do as much as i can down there especially with headwinds.

[newierider]

abby, g-boaf, ironhanglider, anyone else out there.. i'd be interested to hear what you would wear also?
fingerless / fingered gloves? gilet or windjacket? shorts even if i set off at 3 degrees?

its a tough one, im checking the current weather and its got such varying ranges from zero in the early mornings to 21degrees, its probably one i just need to gage the night before / on the day really, here's a rough idea

thredbo (start) - anything from 4-11 degrees
jindabyne (3/4 way through) - anything up to 21 degrees
mt kosciuszko (final 2hrs uphill) anything up to 12 degrees

[g-boaf]

abby, g-boaf, ironhanglider, anyone else out there.. i'd be interested to hear what you would wear also?
fingerless / fingered gloves? gilet or windjacket? shorts even if i set off at 3 degrees?

its a tough one, im checking the current weather and its got such varying ranges from zero in the early mornings to 21degrees, its probably one i just need to gage the night before / on the day really, here's a rough idea

thredbo (start) - anything from 4-11 degrees
jindabyne (3/4 way through) - anything up to 21 degrees
mt kosciuszko (final 2hrs uphill) anything up to 12 degrees

I like the Castelli arm and leg warmers, those are fantastically warm. A gilet top would be useful, and probably also recommend something like the Castelli Core base layer, those are good too. Wind-breaker jacket, forget it, those are too hot. Gloves, I'd take both types and see what you want to use on the day.

My preferences may differ from others as I'm pretty light and feel the cold badly. Heat doesn't bother me much but I absolutely hate really cold conditions.

[robbo mcs]

Hi,

Just stumbled on this thread. Congratulations to newierider, such enthusiasm and dedication

I am doing the event as well. I am semi-local to the area, I own a place in town and spend around 25% of the year down there and ride all these roads all the time. I thought I might address some of the issues raised in the thread about the course etc, just to put your mind at ease

Altitude : a non-issue from the cardiovascular point of view, ignore it and put it out of your mind as a factor. The vast majority of the course is <1000m anyhow
Sun : it may only get up to 25C or so, but here the altitude does come into play. 25C in perisher feels a lot hotter than in Syd / Melb, and you burn much easier
Clothes : you really do need to look the night before and make a call. However, almost certainly a lot less than you think. As long as you are moving it is generally ok, it is when you stop that you get cold. Remember you can wear warm clothes before the start, and pack them in a bag to be transported back down. Your hands can get cold first thing in the morning, especially on descents, so you will need gloves, but generally by 10am it is warm, so have gloves that fit in a pocket. For the top I usually wear a normal top, and if it is cold either a thermal under that or a very lightweight windproof jacket over the top. Either of those can fold and fit in a back pocket. The ride does go through Jindy pretty early on, so if by that stage you think you are carrying too many clothes, there is an opportunity to give some to a friend etc
Wind : this is not generally a factor on the climbs, which are mostly relatively protected. However, eucumbene rd, rocky plains rd, dalgety rd and snowy river way are on open exposed plains and are very difficult if it is windy
Road surface ; mix of smooth and coarse chip. Rocky plains rd has quite a lot of nasty potholes, hopefully council will fix them before the event. This is generally a fast downhill part as well, so keep your eyes peeled. Otherwise not too bad, stay away from the edges of the roads which can be patchy
Climb from Jindy to Perisher : this is really not too bad at all, not steep, but just goes on for a long time. You can go up here in a reasonably high gear and keep momentum going
Beloka climb ; this is an absolute brute, especially the first 500m. Locals call this "the wall" and avoid it. For sure this is going to break a lot of people with the wrong gearing and poor preparation, and they will end up walking up some of the distance. Just remember it does get easier after the first 500m
Other climbs : the climb out of Jindy to eucumbene road is not to be underestimated, and is the first real test of the day. However, all the other climbs on the course are nothing worse than you see around Sydney or Melbourne, just undulations really

Have fun. From your training plan and progress you will absolutely romp through this. Enjoy the beautiful countryside and scenery.

The local area is really getting into the spirit. Berridale is "the sprint" , and the town is being decorated with hundreds of old bikes painted green. Jindy is starting to gradually turn a shade of yellow. Dalgety is "king of the mountains" and polka dots are starting to appear everywhere

Oh one other thing, you keep saying the course starts in Thredbo. That is not correct, it is in Bullocks flat, which is around 15km from thredbo. Don't turn up to the wrong place

[newierider]

Hi robbo!!!! Awesome post!!! Thankyou sooo much for all that info, really good to know, really helpful. Yeah i know where the start is i just thought that bullocks flat was part of thredbo for some unknown reason, all good hehe

Beloka sounds worse that i thought! From what i can see its a bit like a hill we jave here in newcastle called mt sugarloaf.. it gets to 25% in sections. Also brutal. I WILL NOT WALK! i have it covered.. im running a 40 on the back via a lindarets roadlink.

Have you ridden the first climb out of bullocks flat? Looking at sections of it on strava, some of it looks pretty steep.

[ironhanglider]

BTW another newbie mistake is to think that the elevation chart bears any more than a passing resemblance to the road. I hate to break it to you but there is no 15km descent at the start of the ride. If the wind is unfavourable it won't seem like there is much downhill at all apart from the start.

The big descent at the start is about 2km long. It starts with a 500m straight road, goes into a left hand bend and is then 1500m in a straight line until it starts to level out. It is this bit that is the fastest. You will see from the leaderboard that more than half of the riders are over 75km/h for this bit. (Why someone created a piddly little 300m segment for this hill is beyond me). Since this is not a technical descent, the biggest risk will be from riders with wildly different speeds.

After the big descent you will ride on the flats of the valley floor with a couple of little steps down, you will even have a little climb after the distillery, and another at the end before final drop down to the intersection. That final drop is worth being cautious about because it is steep and there is often gravel about, as well as keeping an eye out for other traffic. I don't know too much about the roads on the other side of Jindabyne apart from there not being a lot of flat roads around.

As for clothes, the wind is both your friend and your enemy. If you can control how much air is blowing across/through you then you will have a lot more control over your temperature. Really light shell jackets and gillets do the job well, and can be folded up really small when things warm up. I also have an old lycra helmet cover which does a pretty good job along the same lines. (I am not a fashion icon)

You will be the best judge of your own needs, but I'd base my decisions around the temperature for the middle part of the ride, mainly because anything you take off has to be carried somehow, and the final climbs up to Perisher will keep you warmer than the apparent temperature for the most part, however there are some fairly open areas near the top which will be cold if the wind gets up. This means that I'd expect to be cold just before the start (if there were some means of taking a warm jacket off right at the start and having it transported to the finish that would be ideal). I have put hot water into my bidons before the start of some cold rides before, they cool down fairly rapidly though, and some bidons don't like it. However race day is not the time to be testing new ideas. The forecast would have to be pretty bleak before I wore longs or full gloves.

Cheers,

Cameron

[madmacca]

As for clothes, the wind is both your friend and your enemy. If you can control how much air is blowing across/through you then you will have a lot more control over your temperature. Really light shell jackets and gillets do the job well, and can be folded up really small when things warm up. I also have an old lycra helmet cover which does a pretty good job along the same lines. (I am not a fashion icon)

You will be the best judge of your own needs, but I'd base my decisions around the temperature for the middle part of the ride, mainly because anything you take off has to be carried somehow, and the final climbs up to Perisher will keep you warmer than the apparent temperature for the most part, however there are some fairly open areas near the top which will be cold if the wind gets up. This means that I'd expect to be cold just before the start (if there were some means of taking a warm jacket off right at the start and having it transported to the finish that would be ideal). I have put hot water into my bidons before the start of some cold rides before, they cool down fairly rapidly though, and some bidons don't like it. However race day is not the time to be testing new ideas. The forecast would have to be pretty bleak before I wore longs or full gloves.

Cheers,

Cameron

I agree with most of the above. The only thing that is not mentioned is rain. In the high country, wet clothing can really suck the heat out of you, especially if combined with wind. Wind, rain and <5C temps can get lethal fast. Cold hand and feet are pretty unpleasant, but if you keep your core warm, they are just that - unpleasant. I agree with the suggestion of wind gillets/jackets to control exposure of wet clothing to the wind.

I recently did the descent from Dinner Plain to Omeo with a ss jersey, arm warmers, base layer, wind gillet and skull cap. Temp was -2C when I set off Dinner Plain - fingers were bloody cold on the initial parts, but the rest of me was OK. Would definitely have needed more if it had been wet.

[newierider]

more awesome info, thanks so much madmacca and ironhanglider. this has really helped me prepare.