training advice appreciated
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training advice appreciated
Postby newierider » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:14 am
i have signed up for the biggest ride of my life so far which is in december, 153k 2500m climbing.
i have 15 weeks of training to do. i have the option to ride anything up to 6 days a week, 1-2 hrs per day midweek and 1 long ride at the weekend. i also have a zwift setup at home to jump on at anytime.
i want to push myself but obviously i dont want to overdo it and burn out.
my main goal is weightloss as i am a heavier rider but intend to be around 85k at race day. my goal is not to race, it is just to finish the course in the time allocated.
i am thinking of signing up to trainerroad but wondered if anyone had any basic tips as i have never actually trained for anything before.
should i aim to just be able to do the distance first? or shoudl i go straight into climbing mode? or 50/50?
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby Derny Driver » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:16 pm
Here is what I would recommend:
1. The weekend long ride is the key ride of the week. You have 14 or 15 to do. The first 4 should be around 70km. Then on weeks 5 and 6 you increase to 80k or 90k. Week 7 and 8 aim at 100k with some hills included. Depending on how you are going, if you can knock off 3 or 4 rides of 120-130 in the weekends before the event, you will be in good shape. So the point is you start with 65-70km and just do that for a month, then gradually increase the length each week. No need to do the 150 before the event. Marathon runners don't run marathons in training.
2. During the week you need to add in at least 3, preferably 4 other shorter rides of between 1 and 2 hours. Have one rest day some time during the week, and one rest day after the long ride. Recovery is important. If you feel buggered, just do an easy hour.
3. Don't ride hard. Just do the rides. Time on bike is what is important. 4 short ones, one long weekend ride, 2 days off.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby newierider » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:25 pm
your advice sounds good for me, i started out doing 6 days and realised i needed another rest day!
i am thinking..
Mon - DAY OFF
Tue - 1-2hrs
Wed - 1-2hrs
Thur - DAY OFF
Fri - 1-2hrs
Sat - 1-2hrs
Sun - INCREASE MONTHLY 70 / 85 / 100 / 125
is there anything specific i should do in the week running up to it? should i have 2 full rest days before the event?
really excited to get going. thanks again
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby g-boaf » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:52 pm
Otherwise everything that Derny Driver has said is right on the mark, particularly the gradual increase in distances. If you try and build up too quickly you can end up injured.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby newierider » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:07 pm
https://www.strava.com/activities/679111205/analysis
this is probably the best ride ive done but not the longest, there was no real training done for this.
https://www.strava.com/activities/515376175
so if i go easy during the week, no hills? save the hills for the weekend?
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby newierider » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:28 pm
final big Weekend ride - 27th nov - 120 to 130k
Monday - 28th - ?
tuesday - 29th - travel 7hrs to get to ride location and book into hotel
Wednesday 30th - ?
Thursday 1st dec - ?
Friday 2nd dec - ?
Saturday 3rd dec - race day
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby Duck! » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:33 pm
I'd move the rest days to Tuesday & Friday. Although the inclination is to not ride the day after the long one, a gentle hour or so helps flush the tiredness out & keep the legs moving. Pre-ride, I'd do an easy one the day before.newierider wrote: I am thinking..
Mon - DAY OFF
Tue - 1-2hrs
Wed - 1-2hrs
Thur - DAY OFF
Fri - 1-2hrs
Sat - 1-2hrs
Sun - INCREASE MONTHLY 70 / 85 / 100 / 125
Is there anything specific I should do in the week running up to it? Should I have 2 full rest days before the event?
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby human909 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:54 pm
Cramping most likely is nutrition. Particularly hydration and salt levels. I've rarely cramped even when I'm clearly unfit and being destroyed by an activity.newierider wrote:i have done 100k around 4 times, three of those i was cramping a bit at the end
That isn't crazy hard if you have trained properly for it and 15weeks is easily enough. Just remember to not go too hard and too fast a the beginning. Even fit people can destroy themselves if they don't pace themselves appropriately.newierider wrote:i have signed up for the biggest ride of my life so far which is in december, 153k 2500m climbing.
Don't worry at all about pushing yourself hard. You won't burn out 15 weeks out. In from 2 weeks out I'd slow things down a bit and definitely from 1 week reduce you load a bit.newierider wrote:i want to push myself but obviously i dont want to overdo it and burn out.
Personally unless you enjoy it I wouldn't bother with mid week rides over 1hr. In my experience 1hr of riding is sufficient for most muscle and aerobic gains. Long weekend rides will help you learn other aspects like mid ride nutrition and comfort of long rides.newierider wrote:i have 15 weeks of training to do. i have the option to ride anything up to 6 days a week, 1-2 hrs per day midweek and 1 long ride at the weekend. i also have a zwift setup at home to jump on at anytime.
From my recent experience I would say that minimum ride length needs to be about 20-25mins before significant cardio improvements are made. My typical commute distance has recently changed from 10mins to 20-25mins. And I've noticed big and continuing gains. My conclusion is that the 10min rider (not matter how fast I rode) simply was not long enough for my body to start responding. Currently even with my 25min ride training I would now be confident to handle the ride you describe.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby newierider » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:33 pm
a few people have said take it really easy on the midweek rides, but is this really going to get my fitness up and help with weightloss?
ive got a fair few kilos to lose!
i also hear a lot about interval training but nobody has mentioned that so far, is that something that i could benefit from or is that really for the more experienced riders?
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby g-boaf » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:02 pm
You can't ride fast all the time, you have to allow recovery time. Just doing a lot of riding will help get rid of weight and it is always fun riding a bike.newierider wrote:thanks so much human909, really interesting stuff, particularly the point you made that theres still time to achieve the goal! i was worried i had left it too late.
a few people have said take it really easy on the midweek rides, but is this really going to get my fitness up and help with weightloss?
ive got a fair few kilos to lose!
i also hear a lot about interval training but nobody has mentioned that so far, is that something that i could benefit from or is that really for the more experienced riders?
Intervals can work for anyone, I've seen people start from a low base with those and get quite fit. Intervals work off percentages of FTP or power/heart rate zones.
Intervals tend to work well if you do them during the week when you don't have a lot of spare time, three of them during the week, 1 hour each time, and a ride or two on the weekend is usually more than enough. The trick with intervals is doing the right ones at the right time.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby Derny Driver » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:10 pm
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby Hildalgo » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:15 am
Have you got training routes that are specific to the event that you can do?
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby newierider » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:22 pm
http://letapeaustralia.com/the-routes/
i live 7 hours away from the event so i cant really access any of the route to train on.
i live in a relatively flat area, the best i can do is simulate the long hills on my wahoo trainer.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby newierider » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:28 pm
i had my first long (ish) ride in a long time on sunday as part of my new training schedule, 70k plus i did an easy 30k recovery ride the next day, everything went really well and the legs felt good, no cramping at all.
in addition to what i ate on the ride, i had two electrolyte drinks over 2hrs and 50 minutes.. does this sound like enough? is there any harm in having 3 just to make sure? can you OVER ELECTROLYTE yourself and end up feeling like $#1t
i actually over hydrated on the ride as i had to stop three times for a "natural" so i guess that maybe answers my question above..
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby g-boaf » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:59 pm
That's not a bad idea - you can put your trainer in ergo mode and configure a kind of interval session that replicates the time/length of the hills you'll be riding on. You could if you want to set up an interval of 60 minutes length that has you holding 250w the whole time or something like that. Key is setting a power level that is somewhat uncomfortable to hold, but not impossible.newierider wrote:i live in a relatively flat area, the best i can do is simulate the long hills on my wahoo trainer.
All that matters is that the effort is like what you'll face on the real hills, not how you achieve it. Someone I know went over to Europe to ride some really serious climbs and did most of the preparation on an indoor trainer, along with doing some 4000-5000m elevation rides (one a week). That worked well.
If anything, doing the training indoors might be harder because you can get very hot indoors (a big industrial fan is a must). Although it is more "in vogue" to ride the real hills as much as you can, you can certainly destroy yourself on a trainer if you want to.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby newierider » Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:45 pm
so regarding my schedule (below) how many of these sessions should i push myself hard doing hills / replicating hills.. twice a week?
Mon - 1-2hrs - gentle recovery ride
Tue - rest day
Wed - 1-2hrs
Thur - 1-2hrs
Fri - rest day
Sat - 1-2hrs
Sun - INCREASE MONTHLY 70k / 85k / 100k / 125k
Week 1 - 70k
Week 2 - 70k
Week 3 - 70k
Week 4 - 75k
Week 5 - 85k
Week 6 - 90k
Week 7 - 100k
Week 8 - 100k
Week 9 - 100k
Week 10 - 100k
Week 11 - 110k
Week 12 - 120k
Week 13 - 120k
Week 14 - 125k
i felt quite good.. not amazing.. but quite good after the first 70k ride the other day though there was only 447 metres of climbing involved.. should i stick to that for the next 3 rides or should i kick it up to 80 for the next few weeks?
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby g-boaf » Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:49 pm
447m elevation for 70km isn't that much. Just keep gradually increasing the distances and elevation. The more you do, the better you'll get at it.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby Derny Driver » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:46 pm
Stick to the plan ! What's the use of having a plan if you don't stick to it You will feel amazing at the end of this 15 weeks. Don't be afraid to miss a day or two if you feel crook too. The key is to look after yourself and err on the side of being conservative with the workload.newierider wrote:
I felt quite good.. not amazing.. but quite good after the first 70k ride the other day though there was only 447 metres of climbing involved.. should i stick to that for the next 3 rides or should i kick it up to 80 for the next few weeks?
I would allow one hard ride on the Wednesday or Thursday, go out and push as hard as is comfortable on that shorter ride. The other ones, no, steady, erring on the side of comfortable cruising. You would be surprised how many people ride too fast in training, its a big mistake.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby newierider » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:29 pm
i have already lost 4 kilos, only 16 more to go
i think the cut off time for the ride is 7hrs, which means i would have to average 21.8kph..
the biggest ride i have done was bobbin head classic in sydney last year, and i didnt train for this, all i had done is around 3 x 20k rides per week for a month or two. it was 1850m of climbing over 104k i averaged 21.5kph, some pretty nasty hills on that ride and i was about 103kilos..
do you think 2800m over 153k at a minimum average speed of 21.8kph is realistic if i keep up the schedule?
i tend to stick to 25-30kph on flats and on decents, im not too confident going over 65kph. then again i can go a bit faster drafting if theres a peloton going at a not too crazy speed.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby Derny Driver » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:56 pm
Mate you are gonna kill this. I had a look at the profile - there is a lot of flat / downhill in the first 100k. The first big climb is 3km long at 10%. You'll be creeping up that, but 3km is very short and it will only be 20 minutes out of your day. The last climb is long at 23km but its only 4% average and you will probably be able to cruise up it at 12 -14 kph ....its probably under 2 hours to get up it to the finish.newierider wrote:
do you think 2800m over 153k at a minimum average speed of 21.8kph is realistic if i keep up the schedule?
i tend to stick to 25-30kph on flats and on decents, im not too confident going over 65kph. then again i can go a bit faster drafting if theres a peloton going at a not too crazy speed.
Very conservative estimate
First 100km = 3 hours (80k is downhill)
Next 30km = 1:15
Final climb = 2 hours
Total = 6hrs 15 (probably less)
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby newierider » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:40 am
i heard that in the french l'etape they had 15,000 participants?!!?
how on earth do the guys at the back have any chance of finishing in a decent time?
how do they usually place riders in a race like this, is it best guys at the front? am i likely to be put right at the back?
if so should i put in a decent effort at the beginning to work my way through? or just go with it.
i just desperately want to finish this race!
i wrote to lateral events, the guys that are organising l'etape australia and asked about cut-off times, they said...
"Please see the below times for the Race and the Ride. These are averages, official times will be released once the waves have been set."
the Race
- Less than 04h00 (40 km/h average)
- Between 04h00 and 4h20 (between 38 and 40 km / h average)
- Between 04h20 and 05h00 (between 34 and 38 km / h average)
- Between 05h00 and 05h40 (between 30 and 34 km / h average)
- Between 05h40 and 06h30 (between 25 and 30 km / h average)
- Beyond 06h30 (less than 25 km / h average)
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby Derny Driver » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:58 am
I have no gran fondo experience but I believe you just nominate what wave you wish to start in. You should nominate the middle wave, between 5hrs and 5:40.newierider wrote: i heard that in the french l'etape they had 15,000 participants?!!?
how on earth do the guys at the back have any chance of finishing in a decent time?
how do they usually place riders in a race like this, is it best guys at the front? am i likely to be put right at the back?
if so should i put in a decent effort at the beginning to work my way through? or just go with it.
i just desperately want to finish this race!
Don't try to overtake everyone, just cruise along with the crowd. Everyone will spread out after a while.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby g-boaf » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:51 am
Well done on the weight loss, that will help you a lot on the hills, especially with the extra riding you are doing.newierider wrote:i tend to stick to 25-30kph on flats and on decents, im not too confident going over 65kph. then again i can go a bit faster drafting if theres a peloton going at a not too crazy speed.
Now, on the talk of speed, and drafting/following wheels,etc -that's something you'll pick up over time. You have to just do it gradually, and preferably not when you are under pressure to meet a cut off time.
Take Derny Driver's advice above - just cruise along at your own comfortable speed. Especially if you are on a big downhill you aren't familiar with, the last thing you want to do is hit a corner way too hot and wash out or otherwise have a huge stack.
Now, high speeds - I find it helps a lot to be on the drop portions of the bars, you get more control using those and you also get your weight a bit lower. Cornering on the drops at speed feels quite a bit nicer as well. You can try this on your own rides now when you aren't under any pressure. Getting involved with some group rides if you aren't familiar with that sort of riding might also help you out when you are actually riding in your event. Not because you might be specifically riding with a group, but if you do end up in that situation, you'll be more at ease and confident about doing so.
Back to high speeds, I would suggest to try and keep your body relaxed, don't tense up and there is no need for a death grip on the bars.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby Derny Driver » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:57 am
Excellent advice. Descent and corner on the drops.g-boaf wrote: Now, high speeds - I find it helps a lot to be on the drop portions of the bars, you get more control using those and you also get your weight a bit lower. Cornering on the drops at speed feels quite a bit nicer as well. You can try this on your own rides now when you aren't under any pressure. Getting involved with some group rides if you aren't familiar with that sort of riding might also help you out when you are actually riding in your event. Not because you might be specifically riding with a group, but if you do end up in that situation, you'll be more at ease and confident about doing so.
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Re: training advice appreciated
Postby newierider » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:26 pm
just going back to the training.. at the moment, i am doing 30k rides 4 times a week and the 70k at the weekend..
you mentioned 447metres of climbing wasnt much for a 70k ride, what do you think i should be doing at this stage in the training?, also how much climbing should i be doing on the 1hr trainer rides?
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