Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

g-boaf
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby g-boaf » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:56 am

Rural Rider wrote:
g-boaf wrote:You can get PerfPro, should be able to download a heap of workouts for it, and you own it, rather than subscribing.


Ta G ... I'll check that one out!

RR

Here: http://perfprostudio.com/

And on the following page, grab the workouts by Matt D:
http://perfprostudio.com/Workouts.aspx

Those are all you need. You might be able to run it on a Microsoft Surface, that would be convenient.

BugsBunny
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby BugsBunny » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:27 pm

Quick question.

Whats the maximum gradient that the snap can simulate?

Edit: On the official website it says 12%. But the DCrainmaker reviews its says 10%. I am assuming its been upgraded since that review via firmware upgrade.

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Rural Rider
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby Rural Rider » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:59 pm

BugsBunny wrote:Quick question.

Whats the maximum gradient that the snap can simulate?

Edit: On the official website it says 12%. But the DCrainmaker reviews its says 10%. I am assuming its been upgraded since that review via firmware upgrade.


Hey mate,

I'm pretty sure that 12% figure is good these days ... firmware update notwithstanding.

RR>
2017 Trek Emonda SL6
2016 Specialized Allez e5 Sport

clint66
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby clint66 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:13 pm

Rural Rider wrote:Cheers Clint!


I'm running both Wahoo Utility and Wahoo Fitness App - when I try to update the KickR Firmware it auto switches me to the Utility App. It just won't complete the last sequence in time - it basically times out and the APP says it failed to respond in time. No idea what is causing this ...

You've got me on another topic right now also ... I'm looking to upgrade the stock Tyres on the Allezx which are the Espoir Sport Blackbelts - I was looking at the Cont GP4000 S II's ... they seem to have been the go to for some time now but a few reviews and reports I have seen of late say they don't last too well and fail on side wall protection. The Specialized Turbo Pro Comps get a huge wrap but I wonder if they are a bit fancy for a training (Road not indoor) Tyre?

Cheers RR


Maybe try just running the utility, close the fitness app. I've updated my kickr, elemnt and surprisingly HR monitor (not sure why it did it) via the app. No issues for me. I would have done it at home on wifi (so it would have been a quick connection).

Lots of different views on tyres. I have always run the gp4000's on all my road bikes (including my commuters). I reckon I get 3-4k out of a rear, probably 5k out of a front (I don't rotate them). I haven't had any sidewall issues. I think only 1 cut tyre that went early.

I have from time to time, bought other brands and have had issues with them all and end up going back to contis. I'm off schwalbe for ever now. I know they are a bit expensive, but you can look out for a deal on a pair. I try and keep one in the spares tub, so that when I need one in a hurry, I am not paying full price. They roll and grip well, and I just haven't had many issues with them.

Although I have been running tubeless road tyres for about 18 months now. I had issues with scwalbe ones, and have been using Bontrager tyres, which I really like. they have stood up well and I would rate them up with the Contis. It seems Continental don't subscribe to tubeless road, so there is not option there. The one problem with tubeless road is that they are bloody hard to find.

I was looking at stages myself, but I run campag and to keep my campy crankset, it was $1500 for a stages crank arm. Which I just cant justify. The pedals option didn't really work for me either. The powerpod, was one I was a bit skeptical about, given the price difference. But it works for me. The only downside to it being how it mounts to the bike, you loose that clean look up the front. Worth considering in my view though. If it wasn't so hard to post pics I would.

clint66
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby clint66 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:17 pm

queequeg wrote:Not in the Snap Club, but bought the Kickr2 and have been getting into the training program on Zwift. I haven't bothered with anything else so far, as the monthly subscriptions add up.
I am finding that Zwift is more than enough for me right now. It links directly to Today's Plan, so my coach gives me a Workout on the Calendar, all I have to do is go into Zwift, choose Workout Mode, pick today's workout straight off the top of the "Today's Plan Workout" list and click "Ride".
When I am done, it uploads directly back to Today's Plan.
!


are those plans your coach develops for you, or are there plans within zwift that he selects for you to do?

Are there many structured rides in zwift? I havent used it yet. I had thought it was mainly unstructured rides or rides through wattopia.

I might have to give it a go. But you end up with so many monthly subscriptions to stuff, it's hard to know where to stop.

But you are right, I find the trainer workouts, are a lot more structured and probably better quality than trying to do it out on the road, where you need to manage traffic and roads that don't necessarily fit in with your intervals.

g-boaf
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby g-boaf » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:44 pm

I think you can get structured rides in Zwift, at least from what I've seen and tried. But it isn't as good as PerfPro, that works a lot better for structured workouts.

I don't care about fancy 3D graphics of riding around some virtual island, I just want to get the session done.

On the trainer you can do efforts that would be difficult or unsafe to do on the road with traffic or obstructions about. Like 45 and 60 minute intervals.

BugsBunny
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby BugsBunny » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:31 pm

It doesn't say on the official website, but just wondering if the Snap has its own cadence sensor/calculator? Reason I ask is I have the Garmin cadence sensor, and that is only ANT+ (I believe) - which then wouldn't work with Zwift on my iPad.

Or can my Garmin cadence be streamed to my Garmin 520 head unit and from there it has a BT connection with my iPad/Zwift?

clint66
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby clint66 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:22 pm

I only have a kickr and I didn't get a sensor with it. I'm pretty sure the snap wont have one either. I think wahoo like to make you buy their sensors.

The garmin sensor will work, but you need the ANT iphone adapter. Which are a little more expensive than a USB ant adapter.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/321613551978
You can't just buy the USB ant adapter and then use a USB to Iphone dongle thing either (which would probably be cheaper). But I believe that Iphone to ant adapter will work with the new lightning to old iphone adapters. I don't believe they have a lightening to ant adapter as yet.

I don't think you can get the garmin 520 to broadcast data. I think it is only passive.

I would still say stay with the ANT+ sensors. I have the wahoo which are bluetooth and Ant. I found that when using them via bluetooth I would get drop outs. Ant just seems to work better and connects more readily. Plus you I think you need ant FE to control the resistance in the trainer in ERG mode. At least for sufferfest, you cant control the trainer via bluetooth.

Arbuckle23
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby Arbuckle23 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:52 am

I am thinking of joining this club later this year :)

I am firmly in the riding outside camp as I love it, but come the cold wet winter nights I will be keen to keep my newly gained and hard worked for fitness up.

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hamishm
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby hamishm » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:03 am

The Tacx Vortex Smart is great too if you want something a bit cheaper than the Snap. The maximum simulated gradient is more like 7% though. Sometimes I would like a bit more. The more expensive Tacx models can do that also.

BugsBunny
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby BugsBunny » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:59 pm

I just joined the club and opened the Snap this morning and did a quick 15 min test ride.

First thoughts are:

Frame set up easy. Just fold out legs. Easy and reassuringly solid.
Need to pump up the rear tires. I'm thinking of a consistent PSI to help with calibration accuracy. I set it for 90 PSI.
BT setup was fast and without a hitch to the Wahoo App.
Firmware update for the Snap was a cinch - 1 minute.
Connecting my Wahoo BT HRM was a cinch. (Also firmware update needed).
Swapped the rear skewer that came supplied. No issues.
Mounting the bike onto the trainer - easy and almost foolproof. Just need to align it so the wheel sits centre on the roller.
The rear screw knob to put the tire pressure I didn't quite get right first time. I had to play with this a few times so then it didn't slip.
Calibration ride was straight forward and didn't take long.
It was surprisingly quiet. I had it up to around 39km/h in the living room. I reckon you could almost have your family watch TV at the same time and not have them to annoyed with you.
Very stable and felt reasurring.
Road feel - felt good, not great. But first ride in.
Power readings - well it felt lower power compared to my PowerPod readings.

Now to get it hooked up with Zwift....

Bugs

thatmdee
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby thatmdee » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:00 pm

I got a Kickr (2016) -- the direct drive trainer.. Zwift so far has been great, I haven't really looked into structured workouts yet, or Trainer Road.

My problem is that my spindowns were taking around 42 seconds. After logging a case with Wahoo support who advised it should only take 17 - 23 seconds, I tightened the belt as per their advice. I've now got the spindown to 33 seconds -- which is a reasonable improvement but still far too high.

I've gone back to Wahoo asking them if I should tighten the belt further to get the spindown time lower (I've read horror stories of belts snapping, so am trying to tread carefully) -- but no response yet, and that was over a week ago. They also have my serial number as requested to check out my spindown files.

I've also noticed that I get a bit of vibration through the frame of my bike on the Kickr at times, which is quite frustrating. It's positioned on wooden floorboards, but there is a mat underneath -- which I thought would be sufficient. I've swapped it out for two other bikes and the same issue occurs.

I'm a little disappointed so far, especially considering what an expensive device it is. I desperately want to fix my spindown times so I can try a step test, followed by an FTP test -- I'm keen to set my FTP and start training around that.. But until Wahoo support respond.. I don't have a power meter, but was hoping the Kickr would be good enough, but I suspect not given my spindown time is so far off.

The noise of the Kickr is a little more than I thought, too. I noticed bikebug sell the Tacx Neo Smart for $1,749 -- which is only $149 more than the Kickr. I'm wishing I had paid that little extra for a quieter trainer, road feel and not having to calibrate it.

g-boaf
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby g-boaf » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:49 pm

Just mucking around in Training Peaks, you can create workouts in it too and export them in various formats (erg, fit, mrc, zwo):
(click to enlarge)
Image

Image

If you know your FTP, you drag the blocks onto the work area and start configuring them as percentages of your FTP. And you can then get a total TSS at the end of it. I didn't realise Training Peaks had this feature. One thing you cannot do in it is a continuous ramping warmup, it can only do ramps as steps which is tedious to configure if the ramp is 8min or so.

You can also create workouts in your library and drag them into your calendar. However, you can't drag them from the calendar into your library though.
Last edited by g-boaf on Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

BugsBunny
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby BugsBunny » Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:23 pm

Does any one have tips on getting a good power calibration for the Snap?

I've noticed the instructions seem all over the place.

The printed manual doesnt give a tire pressure recommendation and the blue knob setting is just "tighten until it doesn't slip with your hand pushing the wheel'.

On the Wahoo web it says somewhere the blue knob needs two full turns after it first touches the roller.

And elsewhere it recommends a tire pressure of 110Psi.

My first Zwift ride felt like the power was considerably low even after doing my first advanced spin down. My hunch is some 50 watts down on a climb.

BugsBunny
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby BugsBunny » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:45 pm

Anyone able to dial in the calibration to get the power readings right?

I'm not a super strong rider but the power readings are far too low on the Snap.

Any help appreciated.

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Rural Rider
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby Rural Rider » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:54 pm

I've only just received my ANT+ usb today so will be able to share more info in the coming days hopefully!

RR
2017 Trek Emonda SL6
2016 Specialized Allez e5 Sport

BugsBunny
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby BugsBunny » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:04 pm

I'll be interested in how you go RR.

So far the most specific piece of advice on tuning the calibration to get the power readings "correct" was from some response from a Wahoo staff (I can't find the link now) to a question posted by someone.

In short, pump to 110 psi. Then exactly two full turns of the blue knob - after the tire first touches the roller. Then do a BASIC spin down. If its between 10-15 seconds thats perfect. If its more or less, add or subtract a quarter turn of the blue knob - do a BASIC spin down again, ideally, with the spin down at 12.5 seconds.

I'm still trying to figure all this out... as its not very intuitive and its a major faff.

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queequeg
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby queequeg » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:39 am

clint66 wrote:
queequeg wrote:Not in the Snap Club, but bought the Kickr2 and have been getting into the training program on Zwift. I haven't bothered with anything else so far, as the monthly subscriptions add up.
I am finding that Zwift is more than enough for me right now. It links directly to Today's Plan, so my coach gives me a Workout on the Calendar, all I have to do is go into Zwift, choose Workout Mode, pick today's workout straight off the top of the "Today's Plan Workout" list and click "Ride".
When I am done, it uploads directly back to Today's Plan.
!


are those plans your coach develops for you, or are there plans within zwift that he selects for you to do?

Are there many structured rides in zwift? I havent used it yet. I had thought it was mainly unstructured rides or rides through wattopia.

I might have to give it a go. But you end up with so many monthly subscriptions to stuff, it's hard to know where to stop.

But you are right, I find the trainer workouts, are a lot more structured and probably better quality than trying to do it out on the road, where you need to manage traffic and roads that don't necessarily fit in with your intervals.


I have a personal coach. He sets up a training plan for me in Today's Plan that is custom written for me based on my goals. Now, it's not like he goes out and develops a whole plan just for me, as he coaches many other people too, but basically he puts in the workouts, we communicate via Today's Plan & Phone Catch-Ups. Zwift hooks directly into those programs as a supported connection, so when I go to the Workout Menu in Zwift, I have a "Today's Plan" menu that you only see if you use Today's Plan and have connected it to your Zwift account.

You can also subscribe to Today's Plan without using a coach, and they have various Training Plans that you can do. They will also appear in Zwift the same way.

There are also various training plans in Zwift already that you can pick from, but you have to remember which one you are up to etc. In mine, the Today's Plan ones come up in order, and once the workout has been completed it will be removed from the list.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

BugsBunny
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby BugsBunny » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:10 pm

I've decided to return the Wahoo Snap.

The reasons being, the power and speed calibration seems way off reality. As a guesstimate, say 0.4w/kg short.

I read through all the Wahoo support pages, and contacted customer support. The response from Wahoo CS is standard fare (which is fine if it solves the problem) - but followup questions to CS are being ignored.

By way of example, the base calibration suggests doing exactly 2 full turns of the roller once it touches your wheel, and thereafter to do a calibration spin down.

I've followed their customer service response to further turn the blue knob to end up at a spin down time of 9-16 seconds. But I need to make FOUR full turns to end up at 13.6 seconds. I've asked if this is normal or "OK" - but no further response. As this seems awfully tight setting on the rear wheel.

clint66
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby clint66 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:01 pm

but does the power need to be relative to anything else. Isn't the issue that it is consistent. If you set an FTP on the trainer and make that your reference point, your efforts will all be relevant to that FTP.

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Rural Rider
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby Rural Rider » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:40 pm

Pretty much what Clint said ... I also plan on buying a power meter for my road work so will keep the KickR and pair my power meter to the KickR later if I want balls on accurate. In the meantime I plan on doing as Clint mentions.

RR
2017 Trek Emonda SL6
2016 Specialized Allez e5 Sport

clint66
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby clint66 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:36 pm

I've got a power pod meter (which relies on airflow rather than strain gauges) so I cant use it on the trainer anyway.

I still haven't gotten around to (read: been avoiding) doing an outdoor fitness test on it. Partly as it's hard to find a road to do it on.

But I do see a higher power output on the road (at least perceived by me for effort) maybe 10-15% higher. I've read elsewhere that your outdoor FTP is going to be higher

thatmdee
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby thatmdee » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:59 am

BugsBunny wrote:I've decided to return the Wahoo Snap.

The reasons being, the power and speed calibration seems way off reality. As a guesstimate, say 0.4w/kg short.

I read through all the Wahoo support pages, and contacted customer support. The response from Wahoo CS is standard fare (which is fine if it solves the problem) - but followup questions to CS are being ignored.

By way of example, the base calibration suggests doing exactly 2 full turns of the roller once it touches your wheel, and thereafter to do a calibration spin down.

I've followed their customer service response to further turn the blue knob to end up at a spin down time of 9-16 seconds. But I need to make FOUR full turns to end up at 13.6 seconds. I've asked if this is normal or "OK" - but no further response. As this seems awfully tight setting on the rear wheel.


Any issues returning it? I'm having similar issues with the higher end Kickr (2016), Basically, I was told spindowns should take 17-24 seconds. I tightened the belt, which only resulted in more noise and the spindown was still too high. Wahoo then claimed that a higher spindown time was 'okay'. After pushing back and pointing out the contradiction, they basically admitted that while spindown calibrations account for the belt tension, they have still seen the power accuracy being way out with lower tension / higher spindown times -- and the only way to ensure accuracy is to tighten the belt and compare to a power meter.

I had Chip (the founder of Wahoo) email me saying that a new bearing had accidentally ended up in their supply chain, which explains the high spindown time. Apparently they're due to release a beta firmware.

Unfortunately, at this point I'm going to try for a return (Wahoo seemed to agree to a refund, but suggested I approach the retailer first), given the +/- 2% accuracy is misleading and my support case has taken over 4 weeks thus far. I think I'll replace with a Tacx Neo Smart instead, as they are only $150 more than the Kickr now, and don't require calibration.

For a $1,600 device, I thought spindowns every few weeks or when moving the Kickr would be sufficient -- and the accuracy would be within the +/- 2% advertised.

BugsBunny
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby BugsBunny » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:38 pm

I bought my Snap from the Apple shop here in Hong Kong. I did this deliberately, despite the higher price, I wanted the better followup/customer service from Apple.

YMMV, but here in HK the Apple shop has a 15% restocking fee. So thats the cost of the return. The actual process was swift and painless. You can do all the processing online and the cost to return the shipment was borne by Apple also. Consumer laws on returns in Australia might waive the restocking fee - I'm not sure.

Its a real bummer because I wanted to spend less and be good with the Snap if it was reasonably within the power/speed ranges. In my case, having now gone out for a few real rides with my PM, I see it was about 100w off!

The customer service folks from Wahoo were dimwits. Every reply I got was a cookie cutter response.

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Rural Rider
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Re: Wahoo Kickr Snap Club?

Postby Rural Rider » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:44 pm

I've been very busy of late and only got chance to fire up my Wahoo KickR Snap in the last week - was waiting on the Ant+ device to arrive (They really should include them with the product!) ... finally got the Firmware Update to flash once the Ant+ was running. Will report on calibration procedure in due course.

Someone else reported this about Spindown Calibration which I shall be following also ...

I received the following last week from Wahoo tech support reference properly calibrating the Snap.
Thanks for the call tonight. It looks like KICKR snap has become uncalibrated, please follow the steps below to calibrate the Snap properly. Please complete the following in the Wahoo Fitness app.

1. Inflate your rear tire before every ride to 110psi
2. Tighten the roller so it barely touches the rear tire, then tighten it by 2 full turns
3. Do a standard spindown and if the time is greater than 15 seconds please tighten the roller by 1/4 turn
4. Do a standard spindown and if the time less than 10 seconds please loosen the roller by 1/4 turn
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until you have a standard spindown within 10 to 15 seconds
6. Do 1 and only 1 advanced spindown to lock the calibration in. Do not do another advanced spindown unless instructed.

Following the above procedures 3 full turns resulted in a 12.5 sec spindown.

RR
2017 Trek Emonda SL6
2016 Specialized Allez e5 Sport

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