Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby djw47 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:54 pm

queequeg wrote:
RonK wrote:That is a rather simplistic view. Doesn't it occur to you that there is a potential for carnage when a motorist attempts to avoid a drunken pedestrian or a fatigued cyclist who unexpectedly blunders into their path?


Yes, it is a simplistic view, but it's a view based on the fact that the motorist is encased in a steel cage. A driver is not to know what a cyclist or pedestrian is going to, even if they are completely sober and wide awake. It is the requirement of the driver to pass the pedestrian or cyclist at such a distance so as to avoid a collision.


I'd imagine the job of the inquest is to determine if the motorist was at fault or whether MH did something that contributed to the accident. He admitted in the days before his death that he had been hallucinating whilst cycling because he was so tired, for all we know the driver could have given him a wide berth and he swerved out at the last minute. Whatever the outcome, hopefully the organisers of the IPWR will consider the risks of encouraging participants to push themselves to the point of exhaustion in any future events and perhaps enforce sleep breaks.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby BJL » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:24 pm

djw47 wrote:I'd imagine the job of the inquest is to determine if the motorist was at fault or whether MH did something that contributed to the accident. He admitted in the days before his death that he had been hallucinating whilst cycling because he was so tired, for all we know the driver could have given him a wide berth and he swerved out at the last minute. Whatever the outcome, hopefully the organisers of the IPWR will consider the risks of encouraging participants to push themselves to the point of exhaustion in any future events and perhaps enforce sleep breaks.


I obviously can't verify this, but I've heard that he had slept sometime between making those comments and the morning of the accident.

And on the same token, he also complained about Australian motorists several years prior but I've yet to see an inquest held into the dangerous behaviour and poor attitudes shown by motorists, the media and politicians towards cyclists in Australia. I have a bad feeling that this will degenerate into a witch hunt against cyclists.

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find_bruce
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby find_bruce » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:45 pm

This was promoted as a race. In the ACT it is illegal to organise, promote or take part in a race between vehicles unless you have received the written approval of the road transport authority - see section 5A of the Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999 (ACT) It is the same in NSW section 115 of the Road Transport Act 2013 (NSW), which is what stopped the Goulburn to Sydney in 1939, 1948 & eventually killed it in 2013. I haven't bothered to look up the other states.

Two of the questions I expect the coroner will consider are
  • Did the organisers have approval; &
  • If so should the approval have been given and on what terms
In the circumstances I would be amazed if the authority gave approval for 2018.

In this light, I read the statement as publicly disowning any involvement in organising or promoting a race

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby TonyMax » Thu May 31, 2018 9:35 am

There has been a bit of discussion in this thread about the coronial inquest, necessity for it and what they will investigate/consider.

From here:

Inquest into deaths

A Coroner must hold an inquest – that is, investigate – the manner and cause of death of persons who die or who are suspected to have died in circumstances specified by legislation. This includes deaths in custody, people who have not seen a doctor in some time, accidental deaths, deaths in unknown circumstances, and certain health-care related deaths.

Findings

A Coroner holding an inquest must find, if possible:
* the identity of the deceased;
* when and where the death happened;
* the manner and cause of death, and
* in the case of the suspected death of a person — that the person has died.


Of course there can be considerable speculation about how much detail the findings will go into, but this is just information in the public domain I've put in here for clarity if it helps.

Oh and FYI the hearing earlier this month was a directions hearing, which may or may not be similar to those defined in NSW:

If the matter is of any complexity, a directions hearing is desirable to sort out any interlocutory issues or controversies, to outline, if appropriate, the coroner’s list of issues to the interested parties and to set any ground rules the coroner proposes for the conduct of the hearing: s 49 provides that a coroner may issue case management directions. This will help the coroner estimate the likely length of the hearing.
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queequeg
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Thu May 31, 2018 10:36 am

Sort of related to the above, the other event that the IPWR organiser does is "Race to the Rock".

He's posted on Instagram

"This is my own personal race against the clock to The Rock.[...] If you choose to ride the course, that's your business and not my problem. It will be your own personal decision. I know this language sounds horrible - it's not my usual style, I'm usually very encouraging - but I've been burned in the past. Riding is my therapy"


It's still no clearer as to when there will actually be a hearing for Mike Hall. There was supposed to have been another Directions Hearing earlier this month, but I have seen nothing indication that it happened, and if it did happen whether they have now set an actual date. I get the feeling it could drag on another year before we see it finalised.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby find_bruce » Thu May 31, 2018 11:35 am

queequeg wrote:Sort of related to the above, the other event that the IPWR organiser does is "Race to the Rock".

He's posted on Instagram

"This is my own personal race against the clock to The Rock.[...] If you choose to ride the course, that's your business and not my problem. It will be your own personal decision. I know this language sounds horrible - it's not my usual style, I'm usually very encouraging - but I've been burned in the past. Riding is my therapy"

What he is endeavouring to do is avoid the provisions that make it an offence to organise, promote or take part in a race between vehicles on a road without approval. The ACT provision is here, but there are similar provisions in every state & territory (it's the same issue that ldrcycles is dealing with in his attempt on the Innisfail-Cairns record. Some are like the NT that excludes events where bicycles are the only vehicles, but the proposed route takes him through Tas, Vic, NSW & SA.

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby P!N20 » Thu May 31, 2018 11:55 am

How you get from Devonport to Melbourne is your problem.


Easy.

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Thu May 31, 2018 1:44 pm

find_bruce wrote:
queequeg wrote:Sort of related to the above, the other event that the IPWR organiser does is "Race to the Rock".

He's posted on Instagram

"This is my own personal race against the clock to The Rock.[...] If you choose to ride the course, that's your business and not my problem. It will be your own personal decision. I know this language sounds horrible - it's not my usual style, I'm usually very encouraging - but I've been burned in the past. Riding is my therapy"

What he is endeavouring to do is avoid the provisions that make it an offence to organise, promote or take part in a race between vehicles on a road without approval. The ACT provision is here, but there are similar provisions in every state & territory (it's the same issue that ldrcycles is dealing with in his attempt on the Innisfail-Cairns record. Some are like the NT that excludes events where bicycles are the only vehicles, but the proposed route takes him through Tas, Vic, NSW & SA.


Yes, I agree. The wording of the legislation is all about "vehicles", and it is clearly aimed at motor vehicles, but does not carry that clarification in most states. A bicycle race is not a race between vehicles, it's a race between people. However, under the legislation, technically if I am riding to work and trying to get there quicker than yesterday, I am in breach of this legislation as I am attempting a speed trial.

There was a local "event" that was going to happen this weekend in Sydney, which as part of a normal saturday group ride, would be to make the normal hill climb part of the ride into a handicap. So, the slower riders get to go first, based on their previous times on strava. The first to the top would "win" (nothing but the glory). However, CNSW was made aware of the event and shut it down. No doubt it will still happen, because everyone has to ride up the hill anyway as part of the usual group ride, and they'll just take the times off strava. I'd be willing to bet that pretty much every cycling group on the road is in violation of this legislation at some point in their ride, whether they know it or not.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby find_bruce » Thu May 31, 2018 2:06 pm

queequeg wrote:Yes, I agree. The wording of the legislation is all about "vehicles", and it is clearly aimed at motor vehicles, but does not carry that clarification in most states. ...
That's not quite right, at least for NSW which I believe was the first state to introduce the laws in 1937 (Motor Traffic (Amendment) Act 1937) They were put to almost immediate use in respect of the Goulburn to Sydney bike race in 1939 & 1940.

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Thu May 31, 2018 2:50 pm

find_bruce wrote:
queequeg wrote:Yes, I agree. The wording of the legislation is all about "vehicles", and it is clearly aimed at motor vehicles, but does not carry that clarification in most states. ...


That's not quite right, at least for NSW which I believe was the first state to introduce the laws in 1937 (Motor Traffic (Amendment) Act 1937) They were put to almost immediate use in respect of the Goulburn to Sydney bike race in 1939 & 1940.


Yes, I can see what they did there. Quite deliberate in removing the word "Motor" from the Act. Anyone know why they did it?
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby find_bruce » Thu May 31, 2018 4:31 pm

queequeg wrote:Yes, I can see what they did there. Quite deliberate in removing the word "Motor" from the Act. Anyone know why they did it?

All I have seen is an article in the SMH about the need for speed limits for motor vehicles. I am not aware of any incident in a bike race that was said to justify the controls

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby baabaa » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:47 am

If you like following dots follow this one...So fast and would be good for peoples to seek her out and give a bit of a cheer along if you can get near to her route. Maybe even "by accident" just misplace / drop a few bags of jelly beans or snakes on the road just in front of her as she rides past?
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Also thinking with the lack of rain across Aust it would be bloody cold during the night.

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby Thoglette » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:09 pm

find_bruce wrote:All I have seen is an article in the SMH about the need for speed limits for motor vehicles. I am not aware of any incident in a bike race that was said to justify the controls


By that point, Gentlemen drove cars.

SMH 1937 wrote:"But the greatest danger," said Mr. Mair, "is the type of man who is small in stature and small in mentality. When he gets behind a high-powered car he gets a superiority complex, and it is the one time when he feels that he is on a level with the bigger man. He cuts in and shows every discourtesy to other motorists. He is the man we want to collar and stop. Although he is in a minority,
he is a real road-hog, and this bill will make him behave himself.


Mr. Mair further "found one drawback in England with the speed limit. There was a tendency always to maintain the maximum speed."

Not a lot has changed in 80 years. Except that Mr Mair would have to forgo his slandering of the vertically challenged. :D
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:41 pm

Where is Mike's case sitting now?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:39 pm

The inquest into Mike Hall’s death is scheduled for September 24-26 at the ACT Coroner’s Court

Mike’s partner, Anna, is trying to find the money to come out and attend the inquest, and has started a fundraising link, which is almost at 100% already

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding ... =VQg8kNpAK
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby hamishm » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Rupert Guiness's new book Overlander about the Indipac is a good read.

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby 2sharp » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:52 pm

Story about the imminent inquest. Interesting to read he as hit from behind and there were no charges laid.
https://www.armidaleexpress.com.au/stor ... sts-death/

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby caneye » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:30 am


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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:33 pm

So, the facts as presented to the court are somewhat different than mentioned here.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-24/c ... i/10299444

Of note was that apparerntly Mike was practically invisible, and was hit from behind by a P-Plater doing 100km/h. That is in contrast to stated facts of motorists who saw him shortly before the incident and had no problems avoiding him.

Have to say, I am somewhat upset that police basically decided it was all just an accident, and that they won't be prosecuting the driver, and now I can see exactly where the inquest is headed :-(
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby g-boaf » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:53 pm

I heard his partner (who has made it over here) has some legal assistance as well. I wonder what, if anything they might be able to achieve in order to prevent what looks like a complete white-wash.

If only someone had video footage of him being clearly visible in the preceding hours.

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:59 pm

g-boaf wrote:I heard his partner (who has made it over here) has some legal assistance as well. I wonder what, if anything they might be able to achieve in order to prevent what looks like a complete white-wash.


Let's hope so, because the tone of the inquest presented thus far doesn't seem too promising. Maybe it's just sloppy reporting, but to say that the 19-year P-Plate driver, who admitted to being distracted by a parked truck barely 150m before the intersection where the collision happened, but who police have apparently absolved of any blame "because I didn't see him" seems very victim blamey to me.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby march83 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:23 pm

Yeah, wow, if you're driving at 100km/h and not noticing things then you, the driver, have messed up. You, the driver, are in the wrong. You're apparently not capable of driving at 100km/h and need to either slow down or not drive at all...

Just wow...
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:02 pm

If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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queequeg
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:01 am

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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:58 am

This video should put paid to any suggestions Mike was hard to see- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvZpUjE ... e=youtu.be


Funnily enough, there was a comment on Facebook about the legal status of the race, referencing my dealings with the police over the Innisfail-Cairns record mentioned above by find_bruce. Just to clarify, QPS have since advised that they consider the relevant section of the traffic act DOES NOT apply to a single rider, adhering to normal road rules. NSW and ACT have almost identically worded rules, but I haven't yet contacted the police there about it. It is debatable as to how IPWR would be considered under those rules, on one hand the participants were single riders, adhering to normal road rules and separated by sometimes hundreds of kilometres. On the other hand, it was very clearly promoted and run as a race. The only thing I'm sure of is I would not like to be in the organiser's shoes, he must have gone through an enormous amount of stress ever since the event, and it's unlikely the legal side of things will be resolved for a long time yet.
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