Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby queequeg » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:25 pm
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby ldrcycles » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:38 pm
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby roller » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:04 am
hopefully it will be back some day
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby g-boaf » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:20 am
It's a shame but I guess that's how it is in these times. How are these events being run overseas in terms of liability, support and being cleared with the authorities?
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby andrewjcw » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:37 am
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby queequeg » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:23 pm
I have no idea how the events are run overseas. Remember, a rider was also killed on Day 1 of the TCR last year. I don't know what the result from that was, but the circumstances were similar.g-boaf wrote:I had a feeling this would happen - if I'm reading the announcement correctly - this seems like liability issues "will not be facilitating the riding".
It's a shame but I guess that's how it is in these times. How are these events being run overseas in terms of liability, support and being cleared with the authorities?
What bothers me about the IPWR is the total lack of detail about the incident. To be almost one year on, and we still have no idea even what the facts are. What is it about this particular incident that has deemed it necessary for a full inquest? I guess we have to wait until the final hearings to know that. I'm just a bit worried that out of that inquest will come a bunch of extra regulations around cycling events that will further punish cyclists.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby g-boaf » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:27 pm
That's my worry too. You know how hard it is to get any cycling event approved.queequeg wrote:I have no idea how the events are run overseas. Remember, a rider was also killed on Day 1 of the TCR last year. I don't know what the result from that was, but the circumstances were similar.g-boaf wrote:I had a feeling this would happen - if I'm reading the announcement correctly - this seems like liability issues "will not be facilitating the riding".
It's a shame but I guess that's how it is in these times. How are these events being run overseas in terms of liability, support and being cleared with the authorities?
What bothers me about the IPWR is the total lack of detail about the incident. To be almost one year on, and we still have no idea even what the facts are. What is it about this particular incident that has deemed it necessary for a full inquest? I guess we have to wait until the final hearings to know that. I'm just a bit worried that out of that inquest will come a bunch of extra regulations around cycling events that will further punish cyclists.
I know little about it other than some rumours I've heard (and won't repeat) and seeing the crash site when I went past it and saw the flowers left by the post at the side of the road. That's a very sad thing to see.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby Jawa » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:41 pm
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby queequeg » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:33 pm
I'm not interested in rumours, but it seems crazy that this far out, we don't even know if anyone has been charged, questioned, under investigation, deemed not at fault....Nothing but silence.g-boaf wrote:
That's my worry too. You know how hard it is to get any cycling event approved.
I know little about it other than some rumours I've heard (and won't repeat) and seeing the crash site when I went past it and saw the flowers left by the post at the side of the road. That's a very sad thing to see.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby Ross » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:45 pm
It seems to me that if you read between the lines of the IndiPac cancellation statement they seem to be almost encouraging people to do their own unofficial race instead.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby queequeg » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:48 pm
Notifying body: ACT Coroner's Court
Legislation: Coroners Act 1997
A Directions Hearing relating to the Inquest into the circumstances surrounding the death of Michael Hall will be held at the Coroner’s Court, Magistrates Court Building, Knowles Place, Canberra City on 1 May 2018 commencing at 9.30 am.
A. Nuttall
Registrar
ACT Coroner's Court
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby silentC » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:05 pm
I guess as there are no witnesses other than the driver it's difficult for them to make a charge stick? I assume that the inquest will try to determine if the driver should be charged with anything.queequeg wrote:I'm not interested in rumours, but it seems crazy that this far out, we don't even know if anyone has been charged, questioned, under investigation, deemed not at fault....Nothing but silence.g-boaf wrote:
That's my worry too. You know how hard it is to get any cycling event approved.
I know little about it other than some rumours I've heard (and won't repeat) and seeing the crash site when I went past it and saw the flowers left by the post at the side of the road. That's a very sad thing to see.
You can bet there will be parties pushing for banning of bicycles from 100kph roads
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby Bunged Knee » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:14 pm
Intrepid cyclists will power on despite Indian Pacific race cancellation.
Australia's intrepid long-distance cyclists have refused to take "no" for an answer.
Within a day, 23 cyclists decided to ride it anyway.
They have arranged what one is calling a "people's ride" that will start at precisely 6:22am on March 17 – a tribute to champion British cyclist Mike Hall, who was killed at that time during last year's inaugural race.
More in link.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby queequeg » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:02 pm
Regardless of the exact circumstances, the facts are that a cyclist was hit, from behind, by a motorist, and as a result of that is no longer with us. Whether the event in any way contributed to the actions of the motorist is probably why they are having an inquest. I've seen a few posts around saying that riders being fatigued present a "danger to motorists". Maybe I missed something, but when was the last time that a cyclist killed a motorist in a collision?silentC wrote:
I guess as there are no witnesses other than the driver it's difficult for them to make a charge stick? I assume that the inquest will try to determine if the driver should be charged with anything.
You can bet there will be parties pushing for banning of bicycles from 100kph roads
In any case, with the next hearing being another Directions Hearing in 3 months time, we'll be lucky to see a final report in 2018.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby andrewjcw » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:15 pm
Put it this way: if there was an objective way of measuring 'drowsiness', the same way there is 'drunkess' through blood alcohol level, do you think there is any chance this event would be legal? Does the fact that there isn't such a test absolve participants of responsiblity?
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby g-boaf » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:30 pm
That's just anti-bike rider motorists being opportunistic. The bigger danger comes from cars.queequeg wrote: I've seen a few posts around saying that riders being fatigued present a "danger to motorists"
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby queequeg » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:54 pm
I am sure this is one thing the inquest will be looking at. However, I am still unclear exactly how a fatigued cyclist presents a danger to every road user, and what the actual measure of that danger is. For example, drunk pedestrians wandering across roads after the pub closes. The danger is entirely with the pedestrian if they wander in front of a motorist or a cyclist. Likewise, a cyclist presents danger only to themselves and pedestrians. In the context of this event, we're clearly not talking about danger posed to pedestrians out on open roads between major towns.andrewjcw wrote:Obviously the much bigger danger is to the cyclist themselves, but a sleep deprived cyclist is still clearly a danger to every road user.
Put it this way: if there was an objective way of measuring 'drowsiness', the same way there is 'drunkess' through blood alcohol level, do you think there is any chance this event would be legal? Does the fact that there isn't such a test absolve participants of responsiblity?
I would supposed that any discussion around managing fatigue would then also have to apply to motorists, particularly to those driving long distances. You could easily imagine legislation being introduced that required log books and mandatory rest periods for everyone. A cyclist falling asleep on their bike and falling off is possible, but it affects only them. The same thing happens to a motorist, they cross into oncoming traffic and kill 5 people. The level of danger is completely different.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby sammutd88 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:32 pm
It seems, if you drive into a cyclist, an investigation must occur to establish who’s at fault.....
Me thinks our justice system favours the less vulnerable instead of the most.....
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby RonK » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:33 pm
That is a rather simplistic view. Doesn't it occur to you that there is a potential for carnage when a motorist attempts to avoid a drunken pedestrian or a fatigued cyclist who unexpectedly blunders into their path?queequeg wrote:I am still unclear exactly how a fatigued cyclist presents a danger to every road user, and what the actual measure of that danger is. For example, drunk pedestrians wandering across roads after the pub closes. The danger is entirely with the pedestrian if they wander in front of a motorist or a cyclist. Likewise, a cyclist presents danger only to themselves and pedestrians. In the context of this event, we're clearly not talking about danger posed to pedestrians out on open roads between major towns.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby BJL » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:54 pm
Not quite.sammutd88 wrote: Me thinks our justice system favours the less vulnerable instead of the most.....
I think pedestrians are taken care of in a more than fair manner. Car hits a pedestrian on a Friday afternoon, the driver has usually been found and dragged into court by the next Monday. Car hits a cyclist and usually they drag their feet kicking and screaming all the while apologizing to the motorist for having put him/her through all the pain involved in prosecuting them for killing a cyclist who we ALL agree was at fault for putting themself in danger by riding on the road in the first place. It drags on for months or years until everyone has forgotten and in many cases, we never find out what happened as it's been swept under the carpet.
To answer your post in a more exact manner, I think the
edit - We don't have a 'justice' system in Australia.
If cycling advocacy in Australia had a backbone, I'd think it's high time a complaint was made to the human rights commission. I'm sure they have more important matters to attend to but it just shows the pettiness of Australia as a nation.
If cyclists in this country had a spine, we'd be protesting in every capital city in the country every time a cyclist was killed or injured because of a negligent motorist. Block the busiest intersection in each city for 30 mins at 5pm on a Friday afternoon. Enough to gridlock the place for hours. If motorists want their cities less blocked when trying to drive home for the weekend, then stop injuring and killing cyclists. They might get the message. But until cyclists as a whole unite and do something, well, I'm not going to stick my head on the block on my own while fellow cyclists look on in silence. But oh no, we wouldn't want to upset those who are killing us now, would we? Screw 'em. Learn to fight back bitches.
The discrimination against cyclists in this country has gotten to the level where cyclists are routinely being injured and killed by motorists, in many cases I believe to be deliberate despite the excuses. It's nothing short of terrorism by legal stealth. If you don't think it's terrorism, then check the dictionary definition of terrorism and you'll find it's exactly what it is. The
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby Cyclophiliac » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:37 pm
Agreed. Spending a week cycling in France in 2016, then 2 weeks cycling in Italy and France last year, made me even more painfully aware of everything you just mentioned. If I could afford it, I'd move to a more civilised country, and stay there, because this is a bad country for cyclists.BJL wrote:Not quite.sammutd88 wrote: Me thinks our justice system favours the less vulnerable instead of the most.....
I think pedestrians are taken care of in a more than fair manner. Car hits a pedestrian on a Friday afternoon, the driver has usually been found and dragged into court by the next Monday. Car hits a cyclist and usually they drag their feet kicking and screaming all the while apologizing to the motorist for having put him/her through all the pain involved in prosecuting them for killing a cyclist who we ALL agree was at fault for putting themself in danger by riding on the road in the first place. It drags on for months or years until everyone has forgotten and in many cases, we never find out what happened as it's been swept under the carpet.
To answer your post in a more exact manner, I think thejusticelegal system is prejudiced against cyclists.
edit - We don't have a 'justice' system in Australia.
If cycling advocacy in Australia had a backbone, I'd think it's high time a complaint was made to the human rights commission. I'm sure they have more important matters to attend to but it just shows the pettiness of Australia as a nation.
If cyclists in this country had a spine, we'd be protesting in every capital city in the country every time a cyclist was killed or injured because of a negligent motorist. Block the busiest intersection in each city for 30 mins at 5pm on a Friday afternoon. Enough to gridlock the place for hours. If motorists want their cities less blocked when trying to drive home for the weekend, then stop injuring and killing cyclists. They might get the message. But until cyclists as a whole unite and do something, well, I'm not going to stick my head on the block on my own while fellow cyclists look on in silence. But oh no, we wouldn't want to upset those who are killing us now, would we? Screw 'em. Learn to fight back bitches.
The discrimination against cyclists in this country has gotten to the level where cyclists are routinely being injured and killed by motorists, in many cases I believe to be deliberate despite the excuses. It's nothing short of terrorism by legal stealth. If you don't think it's terrorism, then check the dictionary definition of terrorism and you'll find it's exactly what it is. Thejusticelegal system, the political system and the motoring public ALL willing to kill cyclists indiscriminately (at the very least turning a blind eye to it) to effect political change, which is to get cyclists off the roads.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby g-boaf » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:36 pm
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby sammutd88 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:03 pm
Should’ve made myself clear and mentioned “road users”, to which I don’t really count pedestrians. But I agree with everything you’re saying. We can carry on and protest all we want, but until a driver goes away for 20 years for manslaughter for killing a cyclist, nothing will change and the attitude of a lot of motorists in this country will not improve. There is no fear of consequence for injuring a cyclist with a vehicle.BJL wrote:Not quite.sammutd88 wrote: Me thinks our justice system favours the less vulnerable instead of the most.....
I think pedestrians are taken care of in a more than fair manner. Car hits a pedestrian on a Friday afternoon, the driver has usually been found and dragged into court by the next Monday. Car hits a cyclist and usually they drag their feet kicking and screaming all the while apologizing to the motorist for having put him/her through all the pain involved in prosecuting them for killing a cyclist who we ALL agree was at fault for putting themself in danger by riding on the road in the first place. It drags on for months or years until everyone has forgotten and in many cases, we never find out what happened as it's been swept under the carpet.
To answer your post in a more exact manner, I think thejusticelegal system is prejudiced against cyclists.
edit - We don't have a 'justice' system in Australia.
If cycling advocacy in Australia had a backbone, I'd think it's high time a complaint was made to the human rights commission. I'm sure they have more important matters to attend to but it just shows the pettiness of Australia as a nation.
If cyclists in this country had a spine, we'd be protesting in every capital city in the country every time a cyclist was killed or injured because of a negligent motorist. Block the busiest intersection in each city for 30 mins at 5pm on a Friday afternoon. Enough to gridlock the place for hours. If motorists want their cities less blocked when trying to drive home for the weekend, then stop injuring and killing cyclists. They might get the message. But until cyclists as a whole unite and do something, well, I'm not going to stick my head on the block on my own while fellow cyclists look on in silence. But oh no, we wouldn't want to upset those who are killing us now, would we? Screw 'em. Learn to fight back bitches.
The discrimination against cyclists in this country has gotten to the level where cyclists are routinely being injured and killed by motorists, in many cases I believe to be deliberate despite the excuses. It's nothing short of terrorism by legal stealth. If you don't think it's terrorism, then check the dictionary definition of terrorism and you'll find it's exactly what it is. Thejusticelegal system, the political system and the motoring public ALL willing to kill cyclists indiscriminately (at the very least turning a blind eye to it) to effect political change, which is to get cyclists off the roads.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby P!N20 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:24 am
I'm not arguing that more needs to be done to improve rider safety, but a French friend did have this to say on the matter of Australian driver's attitude to cyclists:Cyclophiliac wrote:Agreed. Spending a week cycling in France in 2016, then 2 weeks cycling in Italy and France last year, made me even more painfully aware of everything you just mentioned. If I could afford it, I'd move to a more civilised country, and stay there, because this is a bad country for cyclists.
I think sometimes we look at Europe through maglia rosa coloured glasses, but I'm not sure it's actually the case. Again - not saying there's not heaps we could be doing to improve rider safety here.On the question of Aus being more unsafe for bikes, and less accepting of cyclists than other places - I don't particularly feel it's the case. I've spent most of my life in France, lived several years in Spain and Vanuatu, now been for 8 years in Aus. Did sustained riding in these countries and had my share of bad/dangerous situations in all of them. My view of Aus is that the road infrastructure give cyclists less choice in planning their ride, so to go from A to B you generally have less potential routes. In France there are very few country areas with no people with lots of roads to go to villages everywhere, so you can make traffic-free loops fairly easily. Here in ACT you can ride on something that looks like a back road, narrow but has still significant traffic, including trucks.
By all means, a lot needs to be done to educate road users. But a-holes in France who think cyclists shouldn't be on the road are many, I don't think Aus takes the cake for this.
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Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race
Postby queequeg » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:03 pm
Yes, it is a simplistic view, but it's a view based on the fact that the motorist is encased in a steel cage. A driver is not to know what a cyclist or pedestrian is going to, even if they are completely sober and wide awake. It is the requirement of the driver to pass the pedestrian or cyclist at such a distance so as to avoid a collision.RonK wrote: That is a rather simplistic view. Doesn't it occur to you that there is a potential for carnage when a motorist attempts to avoid a drunken pedestrian or a fatigued cyclist who unexpectedly blunders into their path?
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