Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 5286
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:25 pm

IPWR 2018 Cancelled

Image
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

User avatar
ldrcycles
Posts: 8524
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:38 pm

Well that sucks :-(
"I must be rather keen on cycling"- Sir Hubert Opperman.

User avatar
roller
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: embleton

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby roller » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:04 am

oh no, a friend from work was going to be doing this.. really feel for him. :(

hopefully it will be back some day
inflammatory statement or idea

g-boaf
Posts: 9573
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby g-boaf » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:20 am

I had a feeling this would happen - if I'm reading the announcement correctly - this seems like liability issues "will not be facilitating the riding".

It's a shame but I guess that's how it is in these times. How are these events being run overseas in terms of liability, support and being cleared with the authorities?

User avatar
andrewjcw
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:56 pm
Location: Newcastle, NSW

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby andrewjcw » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:37 am

Disappointing, but kind of relieved as well.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 5286
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:23 pm

g-boaf wrote:I had a feeling this would happen - if I'm reading the announcement correctly - this seems like liability issues "will not be facilitating the riding".

It's a shame but I guess that's how it is in these times. How are these events being run overseas in terms of liability, support and being cleared with the authorities?


I have no idea how the events are run overseas. Remember, a rider was also killed on Day 1 of the TCR last year. I don't know what the result from that was, but the circumstances were similar.

What bothers me about the IPWR is the total lack of detail about the incident. To be almost one year on, and we still have no idea even what the facts are. What is it about this particular incident that has deemed it necessary for a full inquest? I guess we have to wait until the final hearings to know that. I'm just a bit worried that out of that inquest will come a bunch of extra regulations around cycling events that will further punish cyclists.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

g-boaf
Posts: 9573
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby g-boaf » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:27 pm

queequeg wrote:
g-boaf wrote:I had a feeling this would happen - if I'm reading the announcement correctly - this seems like liability issues "will not be facilitating the riding".

It's a shame but I guess that's how it is in these times. How are these events being run overseas in terms of liability, support and being cleared with the authorities?


I have no idea how the events are run overseas. Remember, a rider was also killed on Day 1 of the TCR last year. I don't know what the result from that was, but the circumstances were similar.

What bothers me about the IPWR is the total lack of detail about the incident. To be almost one year on, and we still have no idea even what the facts are. What is it about this particular incident that has deemed it necessary for a full inquest? I guess we have to wait until the final hearings to know that. I'm just a bit worried that out of that inquest will come a bunch of extra regulations around cycling events that will further punish cyclists.


That's my worry too. You know how hard it is to get any cycling event approved.

I know little about it other than some rumours I've heard (and won't repeat) and seeing the crash site when I went past it and saw the flowers left by the post at the side of the road. :( That's a very sad thing to see.

Jawa
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:16 am

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby Jawa » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:41 pm

Bit of a shame, was looking forward to seeing diddlyrider get owned

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 5286
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:33 pm

g-boaf wrote:
That's my worry too. You know how hard it is to get any cycling event approved.

I know little about it other than some rumours I've heard (and won't repeat) and seeing the crash site when I went past it and saw the flowers left by the post at the side of the road. :( That's a very sad thing to see.


I'm not interested in rumours, but it seems crazy that this far out, we don't even know if anyone has been charged, questioned, under investigation, deemed not at fault....Nothing but silence.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

User avatar
Ross
Posts: 5270
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:53 pm

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby Ross » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:45 pm

I guess once the coroner has finished investigating and determine what happened then the findings will be released.

It seems to me that if you read between the lines of the IndiPac cancellation statement they seem to be almost encouraging people to do their own unofficial race instead.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 5286
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:48 pm

Notification date: 09 February 2018
Notifying body: ACT Coroner's Court
Legislation: Coroners Act 1997

A Directions Hearing relating to the Inquest into the circumstances surrounding the death of Michael Hall will be held at the Coroner’s Court, Magistrates Court Building, Knowles Place, Canberra City on 1 May 2018 commencing at 9.30 am.

A. Nuttall
Registrar
ACT Coroner's Court
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

User avatar
silentC
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm
Location: Far South Coast NSW

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby silentC » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:05 pm

queequeg wrote:
g-boaf wrote:
That's my worry too. You know how hard it is to get any cycling event approved.

I know little about it other than some rumours I've heard (and won't repeat) and seeing the crash site when I went past it and saw the flowers left by the post at the side of the road. :( That's a very sad thing to see.


I'm not interested in rumours, but it seems crazy that this far out, we don't even know if anyone has been charged, questioned, under investigation, deemed not at fault....Nothing but silence.


I guess as there are no witnesses other than the driver it's difficult for them to make a charge stick? I assume that the inquest will try to determine if the driver should be charged with anything.

You can bet there will be parties pushing for banning of bicycles from 100kph roads :(
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

User avatar
Bunged Knee
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:29 pm
Location: Not drowning in Parramatta river yet

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby Bunged Knee » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:14 pm

From SMH
Intrepid cyclists will power on despite Indian Pacific race cancellation.
Australia's intrepid long-distance cyclists have refused to take "no" for an answer.

Within a day, 23 cyclists decided to ride it anyway.

They have arranged what one is calling a "people's ride" that will start at precisely 6:22am on March 17 – a tribute to champion British cyclist Mike Hall, who was killed at that time during last year's inaugural race.
More in link.
ID please? What ID? My seat tube ID is 27.2mm or 31.6mm depending on what bikes I ride today.thanks...

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 5286
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:02 pm

silentC wrote:
I guess as there are no witnesses other than the driver it's difficult for them to make a charge stick? I assume that the inquest will try to determine if the driver should be charged with anything.

You can bet there will be parties pushing for banning of bicycles from 100kph roads :(


Regardless of the exact circumstances, the facts are that a cyclist was hit, from behind, by a motorist, and as a result of that is no longer with us. Whether the event in any way contributed to the actions of the motorist is probably why they are having an inquest. I've seen a few posts around saying that riders being fatigued present a "danger to motorists". Maybe I missed something, but when was the last time that a cyclist killed a motorist in a collision?

In any case, with the next hearing being another Directions Hearing in 3 months time, we'll be lucky to see a final report in 2018.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

User avatar
andrewjcw
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:56 pm
Location: Newcastle, NSW

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby andrewjcw » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:15 pm

Obviously the much bigger danger is to the cyclist themselves, but a sleep deprived cyclist is still clearly a danger to every road user.

Put it this way: if there was an objective way of measuring 'drowsiness', the same way there is 'drunkess' through blood alcohol level, do you think there is any chance this event would be legal? Does the fact that there isn't such a test absolve participants of responsiblity?

g-boaf
Posts: 9573
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby g-boaf » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:30 pm

Surely it's not a good thing to be riding around or driving in an extremely tired or fatigued state. However...

queequeg wrote: I've seen a few posts around saying that riders being fatigued present a "danger to motorists"


That's just anti-bike rider motorists being opportunistic. The bigger danger comes from cars.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 5286
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:54 pm

andrewjcw wrote:Obviously the much bigger danger is to the cyclist themselves, but a sleep deprived cyclist is still clearly a danger to every road user.

Put it this way: if there was an objective way of measuring 'drowsiness', the same way there is 'drunkess' through blood alcohol level, do you think there is any chance this event would be legal? Does the fact that there isn't such a test absolve participants of responsiblity?


I am sure this is one thing the inquest will be looking at. However, I am still unclear exactly how a fatigued cyclist presents a danger to every road user, and what the actual measure of that danger is. For example, drunk pedestrians wandering across roads after the pub closes. The danger is entirely with the pedestrian if they wander in front of a motorist or a cyclist. Likewise, a cyclist presents danger only to themselves and pedestrians. In the context of this event, we're clearly not talking about danger posed to pedestrians out on open roads between major towns.

I would supposed that any discussion around managing fatigue would then also have to apply to motorists, particularly to those driving long distances. You could easily imagine legislation being introduced that required log books and mandatory rest periods for everyone. A cyclist falling asleep on their bike and falling off is possible, but it affects only them. The same thing happens to a motorist, they cross into oncoming traffic and kill 5 people. The level of danger is completely different.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

sammutd88
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:12 pm

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby sammutd88 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:32 pm

If I go and drive into a car in front of me, travelling in the same direction, it’s my fault because I’m not paying attention or am not at a safe distance behind the other vehicle.

It seems, if you drive into a cyclist, an investigation must occur to establish who’s at fault.....

Me thinks our justice system favours the less vulnerable instead of the most.....

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 10177
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby RonK » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:33 pm

queequeg wrote:I am still unclear exactly how a fatigued cyclist presents a danger to every road user, and what the actual measure of that danger is. For example, drunk pedestrians wandering across roads after the pub closes. The danger is entirely with the pedestrian if they wander in front of a motorist or a cyclist. Likewise, a cyclist presents danger only to themselves and pedestrians. In the context of this event, we're clearly not talking about danger posed to pedestrians out on open roads between major towns.

That is a rather simplistic view. Doesn't it occur to you that there is a potential for carnage when a motorist attempts to avoid a drunken pedestrian or a fatigued cyclist who unexpectedly blunders into their path?
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

BJL
Posts: 583
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby BJL » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:54 pm

sammutd88 wrote:Me thinks our justice system favours the less vulnerable instead of the most.....


Not quite.

I think pedestrians are taken care of in a more than fair manner. Car hits a pedestrian on a Friday afternoon, the driver has usually been found and dragged into court by the next Monday. Car hits a cyclist and usually they drag their feet kicking and screaming all the while apologizing to the motorist for having put him/her through all the pain involved in prosecuting them for killing a cyclist who we ALL agree was at fault for putting themself in danger by riding on the road in the first place. It drags on for months or years until everyone has forgotten and in many cases, we never find out what happened as it's been swept under the carpet.

To answer your post in a more exact manner, I think the justice legal system is prejudiced against cyclists.

edit - We don't have a 'justice' system in Australia.

If cycling advocacy in Australia had a backbone, I'd think it's high time a complaint was made to the human rights commission. I'm sure they have more important matters to attend to but it just shows the pettiness of Australia as a nation.

If cyclists in this country had a spine, we'd be protesting in every capital city in the country every time a cyclist was killed or injured because of a negligent motorist. Block the busiest intersection in each city for 30 mins at 5pm on a Friday afternoon. Enough to gridlock the place for hours. If motorists want their cities less blocked when trying to drive home for the weekend, then stop injuring and killing cyclists. They might get the message. But until cyclists as a whole unite and do something, well, I'm not going to stick my head on the block on my own while fellow cyclists look on in silence. But oh no, we wouldn't want to upset those who are killing us now, would we? Screw 'em. Learn to fight back bitches.

The discrimination against cyclists in this country has gotten to the level where cyclists are routinely being injured and killed by motorists, in many cases I believe to be deliberate despite the excuses. It's nothing short of terrorism by legal stealth. If you don't think it's terrorism, then check the dictionary definition of terrorism and you'll find it's exactly what it is. The justice legal system, the political system and the motoring public ALL willing to kill cyclists indiscriminately (at the very least turning a blind eye to it) to effect political change, which is to get cyclists off the roads. :evil:

Cyclophiliac
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:48 am

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby Cyclophiliac » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:37 pm

BJL wrote:
sammutd88 wrote:Me thinks our justice system favours the less vulnerable instead of the most.....


Not quite.

I think pedestrians are taken care of in a more than fair manner. Car hits a pedestrian on a Friday afternoon, the driver has usually been found and dragged into court by the next Monday. Car hits a cyclist and usually they drag their feet kicking and screaming all the while apologizing to the motorist for having put him/her through all the pain involved in prosecuting them for killing a cyclist who we ALL agree was at fault for putting themself in danger by riding on the road in the first place. It drags on for months or years until everyone has forgotten and in many cases, we never find out what happened as it's been swept under the carpet.

To answer your post in a more exact manner, I think the justice legal system is prejudiced against cyclists.

edit - We don't have a 'justice' system in Australia.

If cycling advocacy in Australia had a backbone, I'd think it's high time a complaint was made to the human rights commission. I'm sure they have more important matters to attend to but it just shows the pettiness of Australia as a nation.

If cyclists in this country had a spine, we'd be protesting in every capital city in the country every time a cyclist was killed or injured because of a negligent motorist. Block the busiest intersection in each city for 30 mins at 5pm on a Friday afternoon. Enough to gridlock the place for hours. If motorists want their cities less blocked when trying to drive home for the weekend, then stop injuring and killing cyclists. They might get the message. But until cyclists as a whole unite and do something, well, I'm not going to stick my head on the block on my own while fellow cyclists look on in silence. But oh no, we wouldn't want to upset those who are killing us now, would we? Screw 'em. Learn to fight back bitches.

The discrimination against cyclists in this country has gotten to the level where cyclists are routinely being injured and killed by motorists, in many cases I believe to be deliberate despite the excuses. It's nothing short of terrorism by legal stealth. If you don't think it's terrorism, then check the dictionary definition of terrorism and you'll find it's exactly what it is. The justice legal system, the political system and the motoring public ALL willing to kill cyclists indiscriminately (at the very least turning a blind eye to it) to effect political change, which is to get cyclists off the roads. :evil:

Agreed. Spending a week cycling in France in 2016, then 2 weeks cycling in Italy and France last year, made me even more painfully aware of everything you just mentioned. :( If I could afford it, I'd move to a more civilised country, and stay there, because this is a bad country for cyclists.

g-boaf
Posts: 9573
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby g-boaf » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:36 pm

Italy was wonderful for riding, you feel so safe on the roads. People tell me France is even better for riders. I guess I'll see how that is later this year.

sammutd88
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:12 pm

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby sammutd88 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:03 pm

BJL wrote:
sammutd88 wrote:Me thinks our justice system favours the less vulnerable instead of the most.....


Not quite.

I think pedestrians are taken care of in a more than fair manner. Car hits a pedestrian on a Friday afternoon, the driver has usually been found and dragged into court by the next Monday. Car hits a cyclist and usually they drag their feet kicking and screaming all the while apologizing to the motorist for having put him/her through all the pain involved in prosecuting them for killing a cyclist who we ALL agree was at fault for putting themself in danger by riding on the road in the first place. It drags on for months or years until everyone has forgotten and in many cases, we never find out what happened as it's been swept under the carpet.

To answer your post in a more exact manner, I think the justice legal system is prejudiced against cyclists.

edit - We don't have a 'justice' system in Australia.

If cycling advocacy in Australia had a backbone, I'd think it's high time a complaint was made to the human rights commission. I'm sure they have more important matters to attend to but it just shows the pettiness of Australia as a nation.

If cyclists in this country had a spine, we'd be protesting in every capital city in the country every time a cyclist was killed or injured because of a negligent motorist. Block the busiest intersection in each city for 30 mins at 5pm on a Friday afternoon. Enough to gridlock the place for hours. If motorists want their cities less blocked when trying to drive home for the weekend, then stop injuring and killing cyclists. They might get the message. But until cyclists as a whole unite and do something, well, I'm not going to stick my head on the block on my own while fellow cyclists look on in silence. But oh no, we wouldn't want to upset those who are killing us now, would we? Screw 'em. Learn to fight back bitches.

The discrimination against cyclists in this country has gotten to the level where cyclists are routinely being injured and killed by motorists, in many cases I believe to be deliberate despite the excuses. It's nothing short of terrorism by legal stealth. If you don't think it's terrorism, then check the dictionary definition of terrorism and you'll find it's exactly what it is. The justice legal system, the political system and the motoring public ALL willing to kill cyclists indiscriminately (at the very least turning a blind eye to it) to effect political change, which is to get cyclists off the roads. :evil:


Should’ve made myself clear and mentioned “road users”, to which I don’t really count pedestrians. But I agree with everything you’re saying. We can carry on and protest all we want, but until a driver goes away for 20 years for manslaughter for killing a cyclist, nothing will change and the attitude of a lot of motorists in this country will not improve. There is no fear of consequence for injuring a cyclist with a vehicle.

User avatar
P!N20
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby P!N20 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:24 am

Cyclophiliac wrote:Agreed. Spending a week cycling in France in 2016, then 2 weeks cycling in Italy and France last year, made me even more painfully aware of everything you just mentioned. :( If I could afford it, I'd move to a more civilised country, and stay there, because this is a bad country for cyclists.


I'm not arguing that more needs to be done to improve rider safety, but a French friend did have this to say on the matter of Australian driver's attitude to cyclists:

On the question of Aus being more unsafe for bikes, and less accepting of cyclists than other places - I don't particularly feel it's the case. I've spent most of my life in France, lived several years in Spain and Vanuatu, now been for 8 years in Aus. Did sustained riding in these countries and had my share of bad/dangerous situations in all of them. My view of Aus is that the road infrastructure give cyclists less choice in planning their ride, so to go from A to B you generally have less potential routes. In France there are very few country areas with no people with lots of roads to go to villages everywhere, so you can make traffic-free loops fairly easily. Here in ACT you can ride on something that looks like a back road, narrow but has still significant traffic, including trucks.

By all means, a lot needs to be done to educate road users. But a-holes in France who think cyclists shouldn't be on the road are many, I don't think Aus takes the cake for this.


I think sometimes we look at Europe through maglia rosa coloured glasses, but I'm not sure it's actually the case. Again - not saying there's not heaps we could be doing to improve rider safety here.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 5286
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Inaugural Indian Pacific Wheel Race

Postby queequeg » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:03 pm

RonK wrote:That is a rather simplistic view. Doesn't it occur to you that there is a potential for carnage when a motorist attempts to avoid a drunken pedestrian or a fatigued cyclist who unexpectedly blunders into their path?


Yes, it is a simplistic view, but it's a view based on the fact that the motorist is encased in a steel cage. A driver is not to know what a cyclist or pedestrian is going to, even if they are completely sober and wide awake. It is the requirement of the driver to pass the pedestrian or cyclist at such a distance so as to avoid a collision.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: human909, markk, marty_one