Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

User avatar
find_bruce
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7014
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby find_bruce » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:24 am

Bicycle Queensland are calling for formal training of bicycle delivery riders such as deliveroo, foodora and uber eats - see Food delivery cyclists putting themselves at risk without proper training, expert says

After making some good points about training BQ then drift into wierdness
at a minimum each rider should be wearing a vest, have illumination on their delivery backpacks, bike lighting and wear a helmet of a decent quality.
Not sure how wearing a vest is going to help given the large backpack that already has reflective stripes & any helmet that meets Australian or international standards is of a decent quality - whether any helmet should be mandatory is a matter for the other thread.

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9728
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby RonK » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:37 am

Yes, they are often all but invisible riding in the Brisbane CBD at night. And they need to be visible from the front as well as the back.

Workers compensation may be at stake here, so it's important that they have proper training and use appropriate equipment.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

Trevtassie
Posts: 560
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:57 am

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby Trevtassie » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:21 am

RonK wrote:Yes, they are often all but invisible riding in the Brisbane CBD at night. And they need to be visible from the front as well as the back.

Workers compensation may be at stake here, so it's important that they have proper training and use appropriate equipment.


But they aren't workers! Not in the new economy.... they are independent contractors that just happen to all wear the same uniform and follow the company rules and instructions. You know, privatise the profits and socialise the risks when they stuff up and end up in hospital for months.

fat and old
Posts: 2902
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:36 am

1. What qualifications does Ben Wilson have in Training to be considered "an expert"
2. What training does an Uber driver, Delivery Van driver or Motor Cycle courier undertake?
3. Who shall formulate this training matrix?
4. Who shall deliver it?
5. Who will pay for it?

Vocational Training in this country (and probably others, I haven't done any O/S training so don't know) is a joke. It's so bad that I have to essentially formulate the training session myself with the providers to achieve any meaningful outcome. I guarantee you that NO ONE will fail any "training" that I have ever done since 1989, bar the St. John's Ambulance First Aid courses. I've seen blokes with no written English skills and very, very limited understanding of the spoken word pass written tests.

One course I did in the early 90's was for the safe use of Laser levels on site. Spent 3 hrs being taught all about laser light from a textbook at a first year uni physics level then went to the local pub with our part of the cost meal voucher for 2 hrs then returned plastered to complete the test. :lol: Local TAFE provided that, in conjunction with the CFMEU.

It looks like Bicycle Queensland has sniffed out a nice, taxpayer funded income stream to me.
Last edited by fat and old on Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9728
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby RonK » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:38 am

Trevtassie wrote:But they aren't workers! Not in the new economy.... they are independent contractors that just happen to all wear the same uniform and follow the company rules and instructions.

Not according to Fairwork Australia.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9728
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby RonK » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:45 am

fat and old wrote:It looks like Bicycle Queensland has sniffed out a nice, taxpayer funded income stream to me.

You must by psychic.

I don't read anywhere in that story that Ben Wilson claimed to be an expert or that BQ has any interest other than advocacy.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

g-boaf
Posts: 8812
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:50 am

The reflective vests is probably due to them being workers and being on the road, some OH&S requirement defined somewhere. Not that it'll be any good with that enormous black box they have strapped to their backs. Perhaps the solution is to make that black box bright yellow or orange..

I'm sure Foodora or Deliveroo will be happy to change those, and probably pass the costs of doing so onto the contractors working for them. :roll:

human909
Posts: 8264
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby human909 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:13 am

fat and old wrote:It looks like Bicycle Queensland has sniffed out a nice, taxpayer funded income stream to me.

Hit the nail on the head here.

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9728
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby RonK » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:27 am

It's worth noting that under Queensland law workers compensation also applies on the way to and from work, not just at work.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

human909
Posts: 8264
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby human909 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:33 am

Like usual in Australia we have things all topsy-turvey when it comes to cyclists.

In Australia the expectations of the skill level of cyclists both by the general public, cycling organisations and cyclists themselves seems to be incredibly high. In countries with far better cycling rates and policies the expectation of greater skills and awareness rests on those in larger vehicles.

I do agree that delivery cyclists display far poorer skills on the road than more experienced cyclists and cycling enthusiasts. But that is the reality of getting REGULAR people back onto bikes.

We can't have it both ways. And I'd prefer to see more people on bikes even if that means that some cyclists aren't highly skilled. This is far better than the current situation of a motorised society with unskilled people driving 2tonne death machines.

RobertL
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:08 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby RobertL » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:43 am

The Deliveroo jacket is highly reflective. It, apparently, has become a bit of a fashion item too: https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/sho ... -must-have

fat and old
Posts: 2902
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:44 am

g-boaf wrote:. Perhaps the solution is to make that black box bright yellow or orange..



That's a damn good idea. You oughta look into supplying those and making a deal with Foodora (to buy) and Bicycle Queensland (to lobby for legislation making them mandatory). Give each a 5% "commission" :lol:

g-boaf
Posts: 8812
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:00 am

human909 wrote:Like usual in Australia we have things all topsy-turvey when it comes to cyclists.

In Australia the expectations of the skill level of cyclists both by the general public, cycling organisations and cyclists themselves seems to be incredibly high. In countries with far better cycling rates and policies the expectation of greater skills and awareness rests on those in larger vehicles.

I do agree that delivery cyclists display far poorer skills on the road than more experienced cyclists and cycling enthusiasts. But that is the reality of getting REGULAR people back onto bikes.

We can't have it both ways. And I'd prefer to see more people on bikes even if that means that some cyclists aren't highly skilled. This is far better than the current situation of a motorised society with unskilled people driving 2tonne death machines.


You could have have the cycling abilities of Peter Sagan and someone here would still find something to complain about. And that's not including the "I ride a bike too but..." types who are always suspiciously anti-cycling.

fat and old wrote:
g-boaf wrote:. Perhaps the solution is to make that black box bright yellow or orange..



That's a damn good idea. You oughta look into supplying those and making a deal with Foodora (to buy) and Bicycle Queensland (to lobby for legislation making them mandatory). Give each a 5% "commission" :lol:


My comment was more about the fact that those companies would probably find a way to nickel and dime the poor riders for the cost of such a thing.

RobertL
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:08 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby RobertL » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:36 am

g-boaf wrote:You could have have the cycling abilities of Peter Sagan and someone here would still find something to complain about.


All those bl**dy cyclists and their one-handed wheelies...

fat and old
Posts: 2902
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:34 pm

g-boaf wrote:
fat and old wrote:
g-boaf wrote:. Perhaps the solution is to make that black box bright yellow or orange..



That's a damn good idea. You oughta look into supplying those and making a deal with Foodora (to buy) and Bicycle Queensland (to lobby for legislation making them mandatory). Give each a 5% "commission" :lol:


My comment was more about the fact that those companies would probably find a way to nickel and dime the poor riders for the cost of such a thing.


Yeah, the supply part was tongue in cheek...but not the idea. I reckon it's a real good idea.

When I was a courier (M/C) we were all PPS, but the company supplied uniform and boxes we had to use. Maybe it's like that?

User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:38 pm

RonK wrote:I don't read anywhere in that story that Ben Wilson claimed to be an expert or that BQ has any interest other than advocacy.

Anyone who provides quotes in support of the premise of the story is an expert according to the subby who writes the headlines
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

User avatar
biker jk
Posts: 5854
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby biker jk » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:23 am

It sounds like there is a lot of work to be done regarding training and equipment.

ROGUE food deliverers have been called to task over dangerous riding as they rush from job to job.
The City of Sydney council has called in representatives from major companies and continues to receive ongoing complaints about food delivery services.
As the number of food deliverers continues to grow, riders have been spotted flouting the law and endangering pedestrians by cycling on footpaths and riding on the wrong side of the road.
In the year to June, the City received 10 official complaints about rider behaviour.
Meanwhile, SafeWork NSW has investigated one incident and two complaints involving food delivery cyclists in the last two years.


The City’s CEO Monica Barone and Cycling Strategy Manager Fiona Campbell recently met UberEats, Deliveroo, Foodora and Dominos Pizza to discuss safe riding and the importance of pedestrian safety.
A City spokesman said it had recommended sending riders to a City cycling course which teaches road rules, skills and techniques to become a “safe, considerate rider”.
Liberal councillor Christine Forster proposed a motion at last month’s council meeting urging City staff to request delivery services educate their employees on pedestrian and cyclist safety and road rules. She also called for City rangers to take action on cyclists illegally using footpaths. The motion was knocked back.


“It is the basic responsibility of council to ensure that as we see increasing numbers of cyclists on the road to do what we can to ensure they get the right training on what’s required,” Cr Forster said.
The City’s cycling courses should be a basic requirement for food service deliverers, she said.
A former deliverer also called for improved training within the industry.
Newtown local and owner of King St bike shop, Hell on Wheels, Tom Boorman said he would have liked to have seen safety checks and better training.
“When I signed up they were just accumulating riders as quickly as possible to spread out the service ASAP but people were just getting on some people’s bikes that were really unsafe,” he said.


Mr Boorman, who worked as a Deliveroo food deliverer for more than 12 months said City cycling courses should be required “as the bare minimum”.
While Mr Boorman chalked up a relatively positive experience to his strong cycling skills and knowledge of the local area, he said this was not always the case for other riders who were often unfamiliar with road rules.
Mr Boorman said the training he received from Deliveroo was a short video based on the UK model which advised riders to “obey the road rules”, and two practice rides.
Safety lights were handed out, but some riders chose not to replace the batteries and rode around on near defective bikes.
“Riding on the wrong side of the road with no lights, I’m genuinely amazed no one has been really hurt,” he said.


Cycling infrastructure and Sydney’s hazardous road conditions made the environment even worse, Mr Boorman said.
Sometimes riders were forced onto the footpath to avoid being in danger.
Mr Boorman was car-doored while on duty on King St earlier this year, resulting in significant injuries from which he is still recovering.
A Deliveroo spokeswoman said riders are required to undergo an “onboarding” process which includes modules on road safety and wearing a safe and visible kit.
Deliveroo requires rider partners to provide evidence of a compliant vehicle, front and rear lights, and an Australian certified helmet at the time of employ.


However, “it is the individual’s responsibility to maintain their vehicle in accordance with the local laws”, the spokeswoman said.
Deliveroo has also implemented “licence plates” for cyclists so members of the public can assist to identify poor rider behaviour.


https://goo.gl/miZW7z

Cyclophiliac
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:48 am

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby Cyclophiliac » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:26 pm

fat and old wrote:2. What training does an Uber driver, Delivery Van driver or Motor Cycle courier undertake?

That's exactly what BQ should have been asking. Aren't they supposed to be a bicycle advocacy organisation, or are they just a thinly-disguised motoring advocacy organisation? :roll:

User avatar
biker jk
Posts: 5854
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Training & equipment for delivery cyclists

Postby biker jk » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Training remains non-existent.

https://goo.gl/ab38Eh

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: brokenbus, Derny Driver, duncanm, jasonc, piledhigher, queequeg, Quency