Toe Pointing
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Toe Pointing
Postby silentC » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:43 pm
I've been led to believe I should try to improve this. It's one of those things that if I concentrate on dropping my heels, I go OK for awhile but then the old habit comes back. It also feels a bit strange to me, like I can't put the power on as much. This may be due to my cleat position, which is further back than normal. Because I am duck-footed, I find I need my feet quite far forward else my heels clip the chain stays.
Are there any toe pointers out there and do you think it's worth making an effort to correct it?
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby Velt » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:51 pm
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby Dr_Mutley » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:01 pm
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby silentC » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:34 pm
I have a bit more heel in on the right due to a smashed calceneus. Lack of movement in the ankle means I roll my instep in when I walk and over years that has caused a bit of deflection of that foot. I've got things set up fairly straight, but the combination of the shape of the frame and the length of my shoe means even a bit of heel in causes occasional contact with the chain stay, so I effectively shortened my foot with a rearward cleat position.
All in all it's not too bad comfort-wise, allowing for old joints. It was just one of those things, couple of guys riding behind me and commenting on it. So I thought OK maybe I should look at it.
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby BugsBunny » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:06 pm
As a yoga practioner, I recommend you do a stretch called "downward dog". This gives your ankles a nice stretch along with the calf and ham strings and lower back. It might help with your ankle stiffness.
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby silentC » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:12 pm
Yeah I think I mean flatfooted as opposed to heel down - more so as your sole is parallel to the ground or thereabouts rather than heel lower than the pedal. Depending on how tight my ankle is, I find myself really pointing the toe sometimes. Come to think of it, sometimes after a lot of riding my middle toes get very sore at the ends and this might be the reason for it - I thought it was tight shoes.
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby K2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:55 pm
How odd. Last month someone who occassionally does a few laps with me mentioned that he'd noticed that I ride with my toes down too.silentC wrote:Are there any toe pointers out there and do you think it's worth making an effort to correct it?
It's not something I'm gonna worry about. Too old to change and it's worked for me so far. It did cause me to think at the time that it might have something to do with being someone who runs [or at least used to] on the balls of my feet where most folk seem to make contact with their heels first doing middle to long distance. I did try changing that when I was much younger and first noticed the difference, but just couldn't do it. Heel first felt like I was trying to destroy my own legs and back.
Not using cleats though...just sneakers and rat traps.
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby Duck! » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:27 pm
Very dependent on the rider's natural leg alignment. If the natural posture is heels-in, then set the cleat position to suit it. Forcing the feet into an unnaturally straight position will cause the issues you speak of too.Dr_Mutley wrote:....excessive heel in however is something to think about correcting... *often*, excessive heel in will lead to excessive torsional stresses on ankles, knees, hips and lower back.... if, however, your knees aren't tracking away from the midline with such excessive heel in, again, don't worry about it...
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby rodneycc » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:44 pm
I'm in the same boat with bad ankles and knees (and not great feet in general). A bit of arthritis everywhere in those joints I suspect as well.
What is more annoying is that I had a beautiful circular pedal stroke, pedalling all the way around and pulling up the back of the stroke. It was more evident in gym spin cycle classes years ago when I concentrated on that sort of thing more. But nowdays I just seem to be pedalling more down and up and not really sure why?? Also I would say there has been a general decline in my performance from age 41-42 to age 47 nearly 48 as I am now. It can be frustrating thinking I might not be able to hit some of those earlier PBs again.
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby Duck! » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:58 am
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby Duck! » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:09 am
A routine of regular calf & achilles stretching should alleviate the risk of injury.
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby Kev365428 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:37 am
Wait until you get to 52, performance drop off is like descending Mount Panorama (well, at least it is for me).rodneycc wrote:Also I would say there has been a general decline in my performance from age 41-42 to age 47 nearly 48 as I am now. It can be frustrating thinking I might not be able to hit some of those earlier PBs again.
Funnily enough, my care factor almost matches it.
To the OP,
I've been toe down for as long as I can remember. When I tend to notice it, I try to correct it by pushing the heel down on the down stroke and lifting it on the up, all while trying to maintain the circular pedaling style, then my brain claps out and it's back to toe down.
I also find that if my knees are giving me grief, concentrating on pushing the heel down for 10 minutes or so tends to relieve the pain and allows me to continue on.
Kev.
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby mikesbytes » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:40 am
Another thing to be careful of is that the injury isn't causing adjustments to how you are using your knees, pelvis/hips. To self assess this you can get someone to video you on a stationary bike with different loads, cadences and even standing. If you suspect there is an unwanted adaption happening then get it checked out by an expert. At the end of a day you don't want that ankle to cause issues elsewhere
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby silentC » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:10 am
I went to the physio with a sore knee last year and he pretty much traced it to the ankle, so on the money there. The knee has been OK since. Don't ya hate getting old?
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby rodneycc » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:37 pm
HaHa Duck, Yeah you are prob right there mateDuck! wrote:That old chestnut Rod, "the older I get, the better I was".
Great, something to look forward to Kev. At this rate I'll be pushing the bike up the hills at 52.Kev365428 wrote:Wait until you get to 52, performance drop off is like descending Mount Panorama (well, at least it is for me).
Funnily enough, my care factor almost matches it.
Actually thinking back to those gym spin classes the bikes had the cranks right underneath you not really like a road bike at all where you sit further back so on the spin bike the scrape down the bottom of the stroke and pull back on the up stroke was a lot easier to achieve. Definitely think the more kms the better pedaling/pedal stroke becomes. Coming out of winter only riding maybe once a week for a number of weeks it will be at it worst at the moment.
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby silentC » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:18 pm
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby mikesbytes » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:02 pm
Back on topic (kind of). Its a matter of being the best of yourself and injury management is part of that, in particular as you age. There are those who get an injury and then simply sit in front of the TV aging rapidly and there are those who work with their injuries minimising their impact and changing what they do to maintain their fitness and quality of life.
rodneycc, on the indoor spin bikes I use, I set the seat offset the same as my road/track bikes
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby eeksll » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:52 pm
Some there is no way to push it forward enough to match my road bike.
Some have what feel like 200mm long cranks
Some have infinite adjustment seat height others have like 20mm steps
Saddles in all sorts of weird shapes and pointed in all directions . ...
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby mikesbytes » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:24 pm
Are you talking the bikes in the general fitness area or the bikes used for a spin class? BTW which gym franchise?eeksll wrote:Good point regarding the spin bikes. I go to one of those franchise gyms and they have different spin bikes at all the different locations.
Some there is no way to push it forward enough to match my road bike.
Some have what feel like 200mm long cranks
Some have infinite adjustment seat height others have like 20mm steps
Saddles in all sorts of weird shapes and pointed in all directions . ...
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby eeksll » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:29 pm
I mean the ones in the RPM class, good life health clubs, I can't even ride the ones in the general fitness area anymoremikesbytes wrote:Are you talking the bikes in the general fitness area or the bikes used for a spin class? BTW which gym franchise?eeksll wrote:Good point regarding the spin bikes. I go to one of those franchise gyms and they have different spin bikes at all the different locations.
Some there is no way to push it forward enough to match my road bike.
Some have what feel like 200mm long cranks
Some have infinite adjustment seat height others have like 20mm steps
Saddles in all sorts of weird shapes and pointed in all directions . ...
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby foo on patrol » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:32 pm
Foo
Goal 6000km
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:25 pm
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby Ross » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:32 pm
All in your head - 103 year old cyclist trains and beats his personal best.Kev365428 wrote:Wait until you get to 52, performance drop off is like descending Mount Panorama (well, at least it is for me).rodneycc wrote:Also I would say there has been a general decline in my performance from age 41-42 to age 47 nearly 48 as I am now. It can be frustrating thinking I might not be able to hit some of those earlier PBs again.
Funnily enough, my care factor almost matches it.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/122/3/430?etoc=This study shows, for the first time, that maximal oxygen consumption (+13%) and performance (+11%) can still be increased between 101 and 103 yr old with 2 yr of training and that a centenarian is able, at 103 yr old, to cover 26.9 km/h in 1 h.
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby mikesbytes » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:17 pm
The 2 Goodlife health clubs (Sydney CBD) I have been at had different brand bikes, as per your comment but both were adjustable to the desired position. I'm guessing that the ones you have been to have made poorer purchasing decisionseeksll wrote:I mean the ones in the RPM class, good life health clubs, I can't even ride the ones in the general fitness area anymoremikesbytes wrote:Are you talking the bikes in the general fitness area or the bikes used for a spin class? BTW which gym franchise?eeksll wrote:Good point regarding the spin bikes. I go to one of those franchise gyms and they have different spin bikes at all the different locations.
Some there is no way to push it forward enough to match my road bike.
Some have what feel like 200mm long cranks
Some have infinite adjustment seat height others have like 20mm steps
Saddles in all sorts of weird shapes and pointed in all directions . ...
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Re: Toe Pointing
Postby human909 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:48 am
I agree with this.mikesbytes wrote:Personally I wouldn't be too concerned with the toe pointing. The first thing is to fix your ankle or as close as you can get it and you've had advice on how to address that off the bike, After that you can review and refine your cycling.
Another thing to be careful of is that the injury isn't causing adjustments to how you are using your knees, pelvis/hips. To self assess this you can get someone to video you on a stationary bike with different loads, cadences and even standing. If you suspect there is an unwanted adaption happening then get it checked out by an expert. At the end of a day you don't want that ankle to cause issues elsewhere
Like all sports there is no single one correct technique. On the other hand the orthodox technique is usually like that for a reason. A different technique is fine, but you don't want to be doing yourself damage.
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