Ceramic Speed and Muc-Off fight out friction

User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 12525
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Ceramic Speed and Muc-Off fight out friction

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:04 am

Ceramic Speed take chains, such as a Shimano Dura Ace, have a treatment and coating which makes it more efficient, but it has a limited lifespan so have two long races, the performance benefit is gone (you can still use the chain of course... considering the premium cost, but serious competitors see it as a training chain).

This year, Ceramic Speed have launched a 'lube' - though they argue that it is not simply a lube but an extension of their IP for a lower cost application of the friction reducing 'magic juice'... although in the dispute, it is about Muc-Off also buying and then treating chains which the claim are faster.

Ceramic speed claim that the Muc-Off testing proceedure is flawed... and the winner is...

More details on this from the US trade publication Bicycle Retailer: CeramicSpeed responds to Muc-Off chain friction claims

For everyday riders and for most club riders, the chain friction topic will not make the same difference as when you start moving into elite levels... particularly TT. It is a minute different, but regular people can get a lot out of proper chain maintenance... and leave it at that. None the less, I am deeply fascinated by performance and what makes a tangible difference (in elite level competition).

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3126
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Ceramic Speed and Muc-Off fight out friction

Postby Nate » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:03 pm

interesting read - especially around the testing procedures.
Love all the fancy focus on new technologies & substances.

I DIY'd with some Moly paste, now i use HBN (Hexagonal Boron Nitride) in my oil/grease mix.
Graphene is pretty expensive on ebay!!! maybe i'll wait :)

User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 12525
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Ceramic Speed and Muc-Off fight out friction

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:17 am

Graphene theoretically could be an future option but for now I think it is pure marketing based on the 'promise' of the wonder material.

18 months when I was seeking graphene - DIY was still the most practical way and it was not commercially available in its pure form, so it is more about graphite and I think commercial usage such as in Vittoria tyres and wheelsets is more about graphite being mixed into the brew.

Tell me more about HBN, how did you come to this as a solution, can you purchase it 'pure' and how do you apply?

Cheers
Christopher

User avatar
Nate
Posts: 3126
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Ceramic Speed and Muc-Off fight out friction

Postby Nate » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:58 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Tell me more about HBN, how did you come to this as a solution, can you purchase it 'pure' and how do you apply?
Cheers
Christopher


Firearm applications - guys are coating their projectiles with it instead of Moly disulfide.
So it can be used in *extreme* environments (10,000's of PSI & high heat) with good results.

I mix it in with a blend of oils (for the lube) & grease (to hold the lube in place)

User avatar
MichaelB
Posts: 8288
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Ceramic Speed and Muc-Off fight out friction

Postby MichaelB » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:13 pm

The paper written by Smith refuting MucOffs claims is pretty lame really. Some of it makes sense, but it's full of assumptions as to why he thinks they got a different result.

Could have been verily easily solved by putting one of their chains and tested it to compare to the CS chain.

Mind you, is that like the Milk Board funding a study that proves Milk is good for you ......

Meh, too much theory (and cost) for me at my blunt and of the field.

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 6342
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Ceramic Speed and Muc-Off fight out friction

Postby Duck! » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:18 pm

I don't have any precise measurements, but I was provided through work a couple of sample bottles of Muc-Off lubes (one dry, one wet), and going on pure feel was thoroughly unimpressed by both.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 12525
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Ceramic Speed and Muc-Off fight out friction

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:13 am

Are you looking at longevity or perceived efficiency?

User avatar
Mububban
Posts: 1071
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: Ceramic Speed and Muc-Off fight out friction

Postby Mububban » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:33 pm

Duck! wrote:I don't have any precise measurements, but I was provided through work a couple of sample bottles of Muc-Off lubes (one dry, one wet), and going on pure feel was thoroughly unimpressed by both.


My bottle of Muc-Off dry lube is getting low - what do you recommend instead for fair weather riding? Approaching Perth summer too...
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

li2099
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:25 am

Re: Ceramic Speed and Muc-Off fight out friction

Postby li2099 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:18 pm

If they put "Sky" on the bottle, I'll dig deeper and pay for it.

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 6342
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: Ceramic Speed and Muc-Off fight out friction

Postby Duck! » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:23 am

Mububban wrote:
Duck! wrote:I don't have any precise measurements, but I was provided through work a couple of sample bottles of Muc-Off lubes (one dry, one wet), and going on pure feel was thoroughly unimpressed by both.


My bottle of Muc-Off dry lube is getting low - what do you recommend instead for fair weather riding? Approaching Perth summer too...

AUbicycles wrote:Are you looking at longevity or perceived efficiency?

Efficiency. The stuff was slow, compared to ProLink, which was my normal lube in the HPV when I was racing that. On the 2.25km circuit where my team did its training and a couple of races each year we built up a pretty solid benchmark of performance. Being an outdoor circuit it's going to be subject to weather conditions affecting lap times, but when you spend two-thirds of the available Sundays each year, for over five years on the track, that's a lot of testing miles. Timing was done with a Bryton GPS bike computer with a set automatic lap time trip point.

With ProLink - the benchmark lube - we could often average 50km/h for an hour stint (average lap time 2:40), with some isolated hot laps pushing 55km/h average. With Muc-Off lubes, we were routinely 3-5km/h slower over the course of an hour stint. The wet lube was worse; very sticky and clung to the sprockets, sticking the chain with it. The "dry" lube I also found surprisingly sticky for a dry lube - because by definition dry lubes are not supposed to be sticky!

I never ventured to try either of them on the MTB because of the horrendous dirt-catching power they displayed in the HPV.

I now use Bike Cream, which for a wet lube is surprisingly good at ejecting dirt even in dry conditions, so it stays clean, quiet, and is reasonably resistant to washing off, but it's not quite as tenacious as some others. The dry equivalent is Bike Milk, and the beauty of the pair of them is that they use the same major ingredients, so you can custom mix your own intermediate blend.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]