Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

human909
Posts: 8228
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby human909 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:55 am

I'm happy to continue this discussion. In the kindest and most polite manner. On that note I'm going to go back to some common ground.
We both want our roads to be safe places for cyclists of all genders and ages. We both don't want to see children hurt. But we do differ in our approaches.

brumby33 wrote:Where in my posts did I have a view or attitude that was detrimental to the safety of all cyclists....all I did originally is question why a 13 year old girl was out riding her bike in the dark or as it's getting dark as the case may be in Melbourne

You answered your own question. Discouraging cycling at a young age, or even a not so young age of 13 is detrimental to the safety of all cyclists. Young cyclists grow up to being more cycling aware cyclists and drivers.

The fact that you question it suggests that young cyclists shouldn't be riding at dusk. But really, why question it at all? Children riding at dusk used to not be abnormal in Australia, it still isn't in some areas. It is entirely normal across many parts of the world.

User avatar
silentC
Posts: 2250
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm
Location: Far South Coast NSW

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby silentC » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:57 am

My 16 year old son rides 3km to school and back most days. His route means he has to cross the Princes Highway. I'd be much more relaxed about it than I am if I wasn't also a cyclist!

When I was a kid younger than him, we rode everywhere. We'd be gone a whole day and Mum wouldn't know where we were until we turned up at home for dinner.

Unfortunately it's not so much like that any more, too many people out there with little or no regard for others. It's difficult to let your kids go, even at 16 which is virtually an adult for all intents and purposes.

It's a nice ideal human909 but the reality is that the danger does exist in the current climate and much as I'd like to see more acceptance of cyclists, I don't want my kids to be the trailblazers :)
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 9:12 pm

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby Ivanerrol » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:58 am

Scott_C wrote:
jules21 wrote:I wonder if she was hit crossing the slip lane there. Drivers fly up and down there. I doubt she was riding on Bell St. It isn't really dark at 8pm here now either.

From the yellow painted curb and the white painted lightpole with the paint at the bottom worn away shown in the first picture in the article the bike and left side mirror of the car are lying on the footpath in front of the BP on Bell St. From the front wheel damage on the bike my best guess is that the car has pulled out of the BP in front of the cyclist on the footpath coming from their left.


From descriptions and images of the position of the bike.
The Age is reporting quoting a young person attempting first aid - no helmet apparent. Looks like no lights.
But from the position of the bike it may have been that the girl was riding on the footpath and hit by the 1 series BM which was either going in or exiting the BP station. From the image it looks like the heading west entry - you wouldn't come out that particular point.

And as noted. Daylight saving and not dark at 8.00pm

That is a bad stretch of Bell street - dangerous for any rider at the best of times - two lanes in both directions and a squeeze point at the Bell/Sussex street T intersection. I would lay my money on the bicycle being on the footpath.

Possibly the BP has security cameras and images - if not the Shell station across the road
"Follow your passion - go Broke. Follow an opportunity get wealthy" - Mike Rowe - Dirty Jobs

human909
Posts: 8228
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby human909 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:16 am

silentC wrote:When I was a kid younger than him, we rode everywhere. We'd be gone a whole day and Mum wouldn't know where we were until we turned up at home for dinner.

Same. :D

silentC wrote:Unfortunately it's not so much like that any more, too many people out there with little or no regard for others. It's difficult to let your kids go, even at 16 which is virtually an adult for all intents and purposes.

I don't believe the statistics support our roads being more dangerous places than when you or I were young. Depending on where you look safety for cyclists may have slightly worsened in the last 27 years. But it certainly hasn't change in a significant enough manner to warrant a complete change in outlook.

What I believe has changed is parents and society's attitudes towards giving children freedom. (And these changes aren't just restricted to cycling.)

silentC wrote:It's a nice ideal human909 but the reality is that the danger does exist in the current climate and much as I'd like to see more acceptance of cyclists, I don't want my kids to be the trailblazers :)

I can understand that view. But I'll also point out that the ideal time to be learning to ride and to ride safely is as children. I wouldn't choose to use the word trailblazers. But if we go with that term, I am glad to see hundreds of trail blazing primary school children in my area.

User avatar
jonbays
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:14 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby jonbays » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:22 am

it's just awful being left to die like that. They stopped they knew they had run down a person probably even that she was a child and still left her to die. There is careless driving and callous behaviour but this is worse and the culprit needs to face this and wear the consequences.

bicycle riders are vulnerable road users like pedestrians and there is no who is more right or wrong in this! Driving a large heavy dangerous vehicle under licence (not a right) means you have to take care to share the road safely and if you or someone else makes a mistake then for heavens sake at least help them not leave them to die or suffer alone. The cowardice I can understand but the lack of empathy to another human is what worries me here.

User avatar
silentC
Posts: 2250
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm
Location: Far South Coast NSW

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby silentC » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:36 am

What I believe has changed is parents and society's attitudes towards giving children freedom

Yes this is true. The only debatable point is whether or not it is justified.

As far as my kids go, I wouldn't want them to cop the same treatment I get from motorists, from the plain ignorant to the outright vicious behaviour that we see every day. I think it is a natural instinct to be concerned about it. Having said that I don't stop them from doing anything, I just probably try to encourage a more cautious outlook from them than my parents would have.

I guess what I am saying is that whilst I want my kids to have the same freedom I had at their age, I also want to make sure that they aren't getting into a potentially risky situation unprepared. And I don't think we can easily remove the risk from riding in close proximity to cars by just simply being out there doing it. In fact I think that there is increasing friction as cyclist numbers increase - this has been my observation here in a relatively small population.

All that said, it's possibly not that relevant in this case since there's conjecture that she may have been hit by a car leaving a driveway and you'd like to think a kid would be safe enough riding on a footpath if that turned out to be the case.
"If your next bike does not have disc brakes, the bike after that certainly will"
- Me

RobertL
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:08 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby RobertL » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:36 am

...hit by the 1 series BM which was either going in or exiting the BP station...Possibly the BP has security cameras and images - if not the Shell station across the road...


I saw some stuff about this on Facebook last night. Apparently there was CCTV footage from one or both of the service stations. I didn't look, but what interested me was that a whole bunch of commenters were all saying that the car is not a BMW. They reckon that it is obviously an Alfa-Romeo 159. I'm inclined to believe the wisdom of the crowd in this case, so hopefully the police have realised that they may be using a wrong description of the car.

User avatar
outnabike
Posts: 2068
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby outnabike » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:58 am

Robert, I think they have looked at other area CCTV cameras and seen the vehicle or pretty well placed it there.
For clarity they have shown a decent pick of the Beamer on the crime stoppers page.
Of course That is how things appear.

https://www.vicpolicenews.com.au/news/p ... r=16638310
Vivente World Randonneur complete with panniers

RobertL
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:08 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby RobertL » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:28 pm

outnabike wrote:Robert, I think they have looked at other area CCTV cameras and seen the vehicle or pretty well placed it there.
For clarity they have shown a decent pick of the Beamer on the crime stoppers page.
Of course That is how things appear.

https://www.vicpolicenews.com.au/news/p ... r=16638310



OK - I'd like to think that the police get this sort of basic thing right.

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 9:12 pm

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby Ivanerrol » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:57 pm

Police posted a statement via Facebook on Monday afternoon following TV news footage that showed a dark vehicle reporters claimed was that involved in the hit-run.

"The black Alfa Romeo depicted in CCTV footage shown by some media outlets is not the vehicle we are looking for,"
"Follow your passion - go Broke. Follow an opportunity get wealthy" - Mike Rowe - Dirty Jobs

NASHIE
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby NASHIE » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:51 pm

Sounds like they are narrowing down the list of grey BMW's and possibly a female driver. Would love to be the officer that knocks on the right door :evil: . Cant believe this oxygen thief or there family, friends etc haven't handed them in yet.

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 5905
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:12 pm

brumby33 wrote:Yeah go ahead and pick my posts apart....go your hardest...i don't have to explain how i feel about it.

Brumby33


No you don't.

Then again we don't have to have any respect for you or your opinion. And if that doesn't bother you so be it. Me? I'd personally like to get along with other people and have their respect.

On topic, yes, your post did come across as victim blaming. If it was not our intention then it does deserve clarification. Bu then, you don't feel like explaining it so I guess we'll never know. :?
Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

User avatar
biker jk
Posts: 5831
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby biker jk » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:04 am

The police have seized the BMW but are still looking for the driver.

brumby33
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:52 pm
Location: Beverly Hills NSW...Yeehaaaaa!!

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby brumby33 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:47 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:[quote="brumby33"
Yeah go ahead and pick my posts apart....go your hardest...i don't have to explain how i feel about it.

Brumby33


No you don't.

Then again we don't have to have any respect for you or your opinion. And if that doesn't bother you so be it. Me? I'd personally like to get along with other people and have their respect.

On topic, yes, your post did come across as victim blaming. If it was not our intention then it does deserve clarification. Bu then, you don't feel like explaining it so I guess we'll never know. :?[/quote]

That bit you quoted me of writing was out of frustration due to just picking out one little piece in my entire post...I wasn't setting out to victim blame, I simply wanted to comment on why the 13 year old girl was out on her bicycle after 8pm ....I understand that many wouldn't think it unusual...ok I get that and I understand that. Perhaps I should've worded it differently....it was just a simple question of note...that's all...wasn't blaming anyone except the mongrel that done the hit and run.
What i was annoyed with Colin, was the fact that someone did a bastard act of a hit n run of this young girl on a bike, but rather than talk about the incident at hand, I was attacked by this one little paragraph...that was the source of my frustration.
I too wanted to get along with people, I had hoped to be in a friendly environment here and I don't wish to antagonise people...but I still can't understand some thinking just because I questioned why she was out at that time of the evening...I never said she was at fault or she did something to contribute to the accident but on the same token, just because someone's backside is on a bicycle seat, doesn't mean they are devoid of making mistakes or doing something wrong.
I should be allowed as everyone here to have an opinion, even if it doesn't always go along the same paths as everyone here, but why should I be victimised for it...you all go on about victim blaming but are prepared to victimise others just for posing a question....is that fair?

Anyway, bikerjk has posted that the police have siezed the car involved so hopefully closer to get the mongrel involved and give him / her the sentence they deserve....and I truly pray this young lass will recover from this ordeal and that she suffers no prolonging injuries....it may be a very long road to recovery and sadly may turn her off cycling forever which is what we don't want to see.

Cheers

brumby33
"ya gotta hold ya mouth right"

VWR -2013

fat and old
Posts: 2877
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby fat and old » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:42 am

biker jk wrote:The police have seized the BMW but are still looking for the driver.


From reports they've narrowed it down somewhat, and it appears to be a woman.

TBH, knowing that intersection and whole area real well I'm surprised the little girl was riding her bike alone, and not wearing a lid. Not that it would have mattered, but strange nonetheless.

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 3230
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby Thoglette » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:08 am

fat and old wrote:From reports they've narrowed it down somewhat, and it appears to be a woman.

Yup
reported in the guardian
AAP/theGuardian wrote:The hit-and-run driver who left a 13-year-old girl to die on the side of the road has been told to hand herself in after police found her luxury vehicle in Melbourne.

Police seized the grey BMW in Braybrook and on Wednesday again appealed to the driver to come forward as the teenager clings to life at the Royal children’s hospital.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 3230
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby Thoglette » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:23 am

fat and old wrote: knowing that intersection .

A helmet won't make much of a difference, in most cases of car-vs-cyclist that results in hospitalisation.

There's a number of papers out there on the types of injuries and impact energies likely in a car accident but the following cartoon sums it up, if a little flippantly (in reality, the head and helmet are likely to both be badly damaged by a typical car impact).
Image
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

fat and old
Posts: 2877
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
Location: Mill Park

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby fat and old » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:52 am

Oh, I know that. And agree. Just referring to the demographic is all.

User avatar
Mububban
Posts: 1048
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby Mububban » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:30 am

Detective Inspector Stuart McGregor told media on Monday that the driver had “got out of the car then and obviously had the time to think about what their next step would be, and decided to get back in the car and drive away”.

“What sort of person hits a young girl and doesn’t render assistance?


I honestly feel like crying over the callousness of this driver, and that poor young rider. Imagine you've been knocked off your bike, maybe you're still conscious and you think "oh at least someone is here, they'll help me" - and then they just leave you there to suffer and die :(
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

gtext
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby gtext » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:55 pm

biker jk wrote:The police have seized the BMW but are still looking for the driver.


That's certainly a step in the right direction.

The police reports make me feel a bit uneasy though. Statements such as "giving the driver a chance to hand them selves in" and "we're moving in". Why give them another chance to do the right thing?
My suspicion is their either in hiding or not even in the country. Happy to be proven wrong though.

User avatar
bychosis
Posts: 5011
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby bychosis » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:12 pm

Mububban wrote:
Detective Inspector Stuart McGregor told media on Monday that the driver had “got out of the car then and obviously had the time to think about what their next step would be, and decided to get back in the car and drive away”.

“What sort of person hits a young girl and doesn’t render assistance?


I honestly feel like crying over the callousness of this driver, and that poor young rider. Imagine you've been knocked off your bike, maybe you're still conscious and you think "oh at least someone is here, they'll help me" - and then they just leave you there to suffer and die :(


If the driver had rendered assistance it is likely our justice system would have given them very little penalty, a fine and perhaps a short licence suspension. If the driver did stop and then choose not to give assistance I hope they cop every single thing coming at them, including gaol time. It is THE lowest act to not render assistance.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

human909
Posts: 8228
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby human909 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:18 pm

Not to understate the tragedy that has occurred in this instance but it does certainly seem that the police are throwing FAR more resources at this hit&run than most that occur to cyclists. Of course this one is particular bad and could lead to death. So some understanding of the additional resources in understandable.

However it doesn't make all the other instances any less reprehensible. Sure the consequences aren't often as severe but the actions leading to this incident are no worse and many cases less reckless.

When I reported a hit & run the copper seemed more concerned about my blood getting on his desk than about taking details. Perhaps if these things were taken more seriously ALL the time then tragedies such as this would be less likely.

ausrandoman
Posts: 719
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:33 pm

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby ausrandoman » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:32 pm

biker jk wrote:The police have seized the BMW but are still looking for the driver.


I hope they are looking for the driver at airports.

User avatar
Derny Driver
Posts: 2056
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm
Location: Wollongong

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby Derny Driver » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:39 pm

human909 wrote:Not to understate the tragedy that has occurred in this instance but it does certainly seem that the police are throwing FAR more resources at this hit&run than most that occur to cyclists. ..

Agree.
I cant help but think of all the Police time and resources used to track down this person and other hit and run offenders such as Bradley Azzopardi. It seems hit and run is now the norm for these sorts of accidents and part of the reason for the increase is due to the fact that there is no penalty for it. Maybe 'leaving the scene of an accident' is added to the charges but really, there are no consequences.
If hit and run saw mandatory gaol time then we might see less people doing this, and less drain on Police resources trying to track down the drivers. Why is there no outcry in the media for mandatory sentencing? This case has got a fair bit of attention due to the fact it was a child involved, but I swear this must be the 20th hit and run this year. Its a joke.

User avatar
P!N20
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: Melbourne teenager 'left to die' on Melbourne street by BMW driver

Postby P!N20 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:44 pm

ausrandoman wrote:I hope they are looking for the driver at airports.


Yep.

The Guardian wrote:Authorities are closely monitoring airports, seaports and train stations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]