Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

duncanm
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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby duncanm » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:49 pm

warthog1 wrote:Open your mind, there is a world in print outside of Newscorp.


give it a rest. There's a world of print outside Socialist Alternative.

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby warthog1 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:51 pm

duncanm wrote:
warthog1 wrote:Unsurprisingly quoting Newscorp references won't help much either.


Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:41 pm
warthog1 wrote:They are sponsored by Newscorp so you'd expect a driver to behave like that after he's been fed a diet of their media content .


Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:55 pm
warthog1 wrote:A diet saturated in Newscorp will do that to you ;) Are you a Fox news subscriber too?


Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:36 am
warthog1 wrote:To a large extent we get the candidate/government Murdoch anoints for power


Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:59 pm
warthog1 wrote:I suspect it is because bicycle riders are publicly vilified. He may listen to Ray Hadlee, Alan Jones and the like and read Newscorp material.


Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:01 am
warthog1 wrote:The Bogeyman card, your term, certainly does work when you have Rupert at the helm.


.. etc..

we get it already.


I am flattered you've gone to such effort.
I don't think you do get it though.
I mean the logic in this little gem;

duncanm wrote:
MichaelB wrote:
duncanm wrote:
I suspect those who have lived under military (or other) dictatorships may differ in their opinion on that.


But USA isn’t and hasn’t been one, so it isn’t a valid comment


its perfectly valid. The whole point of the 'right to bear arms' argument is that the populace remains armed enough to prevent such a situation.

Whether you agree with that line of argument or not is another matter, but there it is.


pllleeease :lol:

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby warthog1 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:52 pm

duncanm wrote:
warthog1 wrote:Open your mind, there is a world in print outside of Newscorp.


give it a rest. There's a world of print outside Socialist Alternative.



Again, for those informed by the popular media in this country;

socialism
ˈsəʊʃəlɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism; More
policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism; More
(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.


:roll:

duncanm
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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby duncanm » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:06 pm

warthog1 wrote:I don't think you do get it though.
I mean the logic in this little gem;

duncanm wrote:
MichaelB wrote:
But USA isn’t and hasn’t been one, so it isn’t a valid comment


its perfectly valid. The whole point of the 'right to bear arms' argument is that the populace remains armed enough to prevent such a situation.

Whether you agree with that line of argument or not is another matter, but there it is.


pllleeease :lol:


So you don't agree that's an argument being used by gun rights people in the US?

I'd be interested to hear what you think their arguments are.

by the way, google is wonderful, very little effort.

I only listed "warthog1 newscorp site:bicycles.net.au"
"warthog1 murdoch site:bicycles.net.au" just gave me too many hits to bother with.

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby warthog1 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:39 pm

duncanm wrote:Gotta love democrats:
Briskman, a Democrat, said she plans to look for a new job with an advocacy group that she believes in, like Planned Parenthood or PETA.


Kill babies, save animals. You know it makes sense.


Women shouldn't have the right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy?
Ethical treatment of animals?
You seem to indicate these are not desirable ideals.
So with a global population of 7.6 billion women should be forced to carry a foetus through to term regardless of her ability to provide for it? Regardless of the disability the child may be born with? Regardless of how the child was conceived and with whom?
Should we increase the tax take to provide the social security for the new child? If we force a woman to bear an unwanted child who is responsible for its' ongoing care?

Animals. Should we grow them as quickly as we can in whatever conditions are economically advantageous. Should we hunt whales to extinction, club fur seals to death for a trendy coat. Are these practices OK? Is it OK to just treat animals as a commodity for human consumption?
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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby warthog1 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:47 pm

duncanm wrote:
warthog1 wrote:I don't think you do get it though.
I mean the logic in this little gem;

duncanm wrote:
its perfectly valid. The whole point of the 'right to bear arms' argument is that the populace remains armed enough to prevent such a situation.

Whether you agree with that line of argument or not is another matter, but there it is.


pllleeease :lol:


So you don't agree that's an argument being used by gun rights people in the US?

I'd be interested to hear what you think their arguments are.



I make no assertion about whether it is an argument of the gun lobby or not, just that it is stupid. It is an argument you appear to agree with;

duncanm wrote:
MichaelB wrote:.. the right to arms and the theory behind it is just plain dumb. Seriously, it is just that stoopid.


I suspect those who have lived under military (or other) dictatorships may differ in their opinion on that.


Meanwhile the average citizen just wants to be able to go about their life without worrying about their or their family members' lives being ended by the next nutter in a country awash with guns.

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:00 pm

Bicycle? But she was riding a bike!

Because it is actually political, and the bicycle was 'kind of' secondary but none-the-less presented in the media as a crucial component in this persons individual protest, we just need to be careful in the forums that it isn't too much of a political debate. The background is that this then becomes distant to cycling (which brings us together) and turns into highlighting differences while drawing members apart.

Yes - it is important though this is still a cycling forum so it essentially means seeking out the appropriate platforms or channels to take it further.

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby fat and old » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:01 am

warthog1 wrote:
duncanm wrote:
warthog1 wrote:Open your mind, there is a world in print outside of Newscorp.


give it a rest. There's a world of print outside Socialist Alternative.



Again, for those informed by the popular media in this country;

socialism
ˈsəʊʃəlɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism; More
policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism; More
(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.


:roll:


Fabian.. now he was an altogether solid dude, right there. That hair, the smile, those shades.....he could have owned the Cycling Chic thread!

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jules21
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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby jules21 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:07 am

I'll resist the temptation to politicise this incident.

Practically speaking, I'm unsurprised her employer fired her. They are employed by the govt. so naturally flipping off the boss isn't what they are paying employees for.

Obviously there's the free speech angle that I sympathise with too. But how far do you go to prove a point?

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby BJL » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:28 am

jules21 wrote:I'll resist the temptation to politicise this incident.

Practically speaking, I'm unsurprised her employer fired her. They are employed by the govt. so naturally flipping off the boss isn't what they are paying employees for.

Obviously there's the free speech angle that I sympathise with too. But how far do you go to prove a point?


My understanding is that she wasn't at work at the time and therefore her employer wasn't paying to do (or not) do anything. My opinion is that what anyone does outside of their workplace when they're not on duty is their business. Adults (this includes business CEO's, managers and politicians. And no, that doesn't go without saying) should be mature enough to recognize that the opinions of employees do not necessarily reflect that of the business. While you're at work, you toe the company line. Fair enough.

But what people do outside of work is none of their employer's business.

How much do employers get to interfere with the private lives of their employees?

People have the right to separate work and personal lives.

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby jules21 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:37 am

BJL wrote:But what people do outside of work is none of their employer's business.

How much do employers get to interfere with the private lives of their employees?

People have the right to separate work and personal lives.

I've done training on this and I never understand it entirely. It's untrue that you can do what you like after work hours. If you involve your employer, there's no protection tied to the the time of day. The question is whether she involved her employer or not. I'm unsure but what I'm saying is that it's foolish to think you can provoke your employer and then try to claim some kind of immunity. I'm not arguing that she doesn't have any, only that the process of trying to prove that is unnecessarily painful and easily avoided.

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby fat and old » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:38 pm

BJL wrote:But what people do outside of work is none of their employer's business.

How much do employers get to interfere with the private lives of their employees?

People have the right to separate work and personal lives.


Not that I disagree with you to a point, but never, ever be a small business owner unless you're prepared to accept that anything a person does outside of work hours can affect you personally and you have to just suck it up.

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:44 pm

The actions of an employee outside of the business can have varying effect, from no effect to a catastrophic PR nightmare.

If you recall the American dentist who was on safari and killed African wildlife, there was a strong public reaction that directly affected the business. I assume he was the owner operator but as an example, it is fairly common for business to criticised and affected by the actions of people involved (employees, managers, partners, clients).

Beyond common sense - companies want to regulate and restrict this and the question is how much control should they have?

In the European Union, employees generally have more rights to privacy and a separation between private activities and work activities. In the US it varies between states but generally the employers have more power in controlling or regulating the activities of employees.

There are no easy answers because there are so many factors to consider - the most recent news I read on this was that the lady had some positive new opportunities.

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby outnabike » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:34 am

Wouldn't you say she was exercising her right to bear arm? I mean it is free speech by gesture. No one would care if it wasn't for a quick pic.
I reckon it was a great PR opportunity for the president to step in and ask for her to be reinstated in her job. Be the wolf that didn't bite and catch everyone off guard. :)

Sort of like not running over the protestor that stands in the way of a tank.
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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby jules21 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:09 am

AUbicycles wrote:In the European Union, employees generally have more rights to privacy and a separation between private activities and work activities. In the US it varies between states but generally the employers have more power in controlling or regulating the activities of employees.

the truth is an employer has broad discretion over your position on matters they shouldn't drag into this type of disagreement, but easily can and most will. if you're invested in your job and career, it's not worth these kind of antics. noting that it wasn't the action that got her in trouble here as much as her broadcasting it widely and identifying herself.

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby Cheesewheel » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:10 am

Woman Fired For Flipping Off Trump’s Motorcade Receives 453,673 Job Offers


https://extranewsfeed.com/woman-fired-f ... 9df89bdbe2

Sounds like a lucrative career move to me :lol:
Go!Run!GAH!

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby BJL » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:29 am

AUbicycles - Good point about the dentist but flipping the bird at the US president hardly compares. Maybe if the president of the company had flipped the bird at the US president. But the average grunt? And where will this end? Will this one day extend beyond employees?

Will one day someone do something while wearing a Ford T-shirt then face being sued by Ford for bringing their corporate image into disrepute?

Perhaps we can look forward to BMW suing the driver who hit the 13 year old and left her for dead. It's not a good look for BMW, is it? Especially since another of their vehicles crashed into a tree on Kew Boulie the next morning. Another driver BMW can sue. Their cars can't be that good if they keep crashing into things. Quite a few have indicators that don't work either.

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby silentC » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:53 am

Ask Sam Dastyari about his recent interaction with a Toll employee :)

I think it gets carried a bit too far and it is an opening for people to be sacked because of their beliefs rather than their performance at work.

But as I have said to numerous idiots on the road, if you are going to act like a knob with your company logo on your vehicle, you might want to consider the impact that might have on your/your employer's public image.

If the employee is not identifiable as an employee, then brand image can't come into it and it simply has to do with politics. Ie you flipped the POTUSA, he doesn't like that kind of thing, you're FIRED!
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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby find_bruce » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:14 am

Whereas in Australia you don't lose your job for headbutting the former prime minister

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby silentC » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:21 am

He should have gotten an OAM for that!
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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby bychosis » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:12 pm

silentC wrote:If the employee is not identifiable as an employee, then brand image can't come into it and it simply has to do with politics. Ie you flipped the POTUSA, he doesn't like that kind of thing, you're FIRED!


I think that the initial action and photo would not have created any issue, but the woman in question decided to embrace it a little too much which is where the problems started.
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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby biker jk » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:32 pm

silentC wrote:He should have gotten an OAM for that!


Only if it were Rudd or Gillard. :lol:

Yes, Astro Labe is a great guy.

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby jules21 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:19 pm

bychosis wrote:
silentC wrote:If the employee is not identifiable as an employee, then brand image can't come into it and it simply has to do with politics. Ie you flipped the POTUSA, he doesn't like that kind of thing, you're FIRED!


I think that the initial action and photo would not have created any issue, but the woman in question decided to embrace it a little too much which is where the problems started.

yes that was the issue I believe. it wasn't a big brother investigation

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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:01 pm

Does anyone know why she flipped the bird? Was it because it was Trump or they drove too close to her or whatever?
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Re: Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trump's Motorcade

Postby silentC » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:15 pm

My understanding is that she was expressing her feelings towards El Presidente.
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