Abusive Male Cyclists

flywheels
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby flywheels » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:59 am

I don't see it as one motorist at a time and stopping there; each one has multiple contacts each of which has multiple contacts.
You make one enemy you make hundreds. You make one educated/aware you make hundreds.
Maybe not every single time but enough times (so please don't counter that by an experience with one brother).

No, it's not only about a motorist, the OP, or motorists. It's about cyclist-motorist interaction.

Yes, it is about us cyclists too, how we behave in a situation.
That includes on this forum. Plus... how many readers, worldwide, can see how we respond?

If we want driver education, we're not gonna get it by yelling morons at them, on the road or here. They throw it back, if not straight away then next time they see a cyclist, or a picture of one.
If we justify our road rage, is that courteous on the road?

Are we courteous on the forum? Did many of us here bring past wrongs and 'probably this' 'most likely that', 'claims to be...', 'just like facebookers', 'I bet she...', 'I/my mate...', 'the other drivers...' etc and heap that onto the OP? Are there images and other quips that digress?

I think No, it's not about exactly how many metres either, not about 'male' (it's common in the news to report 'male/woman xyz' -I don't see that anyone attacks all males by that), not about any single bits to pick on to discredit the post or the OP.
I think it's more important to have a positive outcome -regardless, with the OP and those they influence. AND for all who read BNA.

BTW Did anyone read one suggestion in my previous post about VR or awareness sessions for school parents+teachers+students? Is that towards a solution? If you don't like that one, don't kick it in the gut, please improve on it or suggest another one.

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Mububban
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby Mububban » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:02 pm

silentC wrote:Yeah I explained all that to my brother in law and he appeared to accept it. Next family BBQ he was on about cyclists riding two abreast again - arrogant he calls it.


I was sitting there in my lycra on Sunday, fresh off the bike, and my dad was rabbiting on about how much he hates cyclists riding on the roads. He knows his own son rides on the road, and that I've loved riding bikes all my life, but he still hates "those bloody cyclists" who dare to ride on the road.

He's 73 years old. He's not going to change his mind any time soon.
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silentC
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby silentC » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:32 pm

If we want driver education, we're not gonna get it by yelling morons at them, on the road or here.

Just to be clear, I don't yell at motorists to educate them, I yell at them because they have just endangered my life. Attempting to educate is a waste of time.
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby tcdev » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:51 pm

Derny Driver wrote:Three times she mentions "lycra clad" ...."clad in lycra".... "lycra to hide behind"
This is a common insult from the bike haters. And a common media description.

I believe, when used in this context, it's (somehow) meant to (also) attribute a selfish, arrogant, elitist attitude/behaviour to the cyclist.

Which is often ironic as this usually describes the accuser to a T! :wink:
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silentC
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby silentC » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:33 pm

Yes they often miss the irony of shouting "get off the road, you don't own it you arrogant #$*%" as they sit up your backside blowing their horn and then close passing you.
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby BenGr » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:07 am

silentC wrote:Yes they often miss the irony of shouting "get off the road, you don't own it you arrogant #$*%" as they sit up your backside blowing their horn and then close passing you.

I had someone say I needed to learn how to share the road, as they squeezed passed to stop 10m ahead, forcing cars in the next lane to go wide.

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:09 am

flywheels wrote:But there’re several unproductive responses here, including those that presume or conjecture something beyond what’s stated. Insult the OP and say if the OP doesn't show up to suffer more then it's the OP's fault?


Long term members are familiar with the pattern of venting with 'hit and run' posting - hence the initial discussion on this.

As a community, there is never a guarantee that each participate recognises every persons post as useful or valuable - this is the beauty of community discussions. Similarly, the original post can be considered by many as insulting because they - as a male (lycra wearing) sport cyclist is deemed responsible for the actions of others.

Perhaps it can be asked, if a member with a single post enters the forum with a post to vent and lay blame - does this earn them automatic praise or acceptance? Hostility is a natural reaction and based on the forum rules the posts are all acceptable - critical but not flames. Flames which contravene the forum rules are removed when they are reported (or spotted by a moderator).

With more time in the forums you will recognise the patterns, but of course thoughtful and polite participation is a good step.

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby trailgumby » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:34 am

At the risk of adding yet another post to the thread, I think Angela Arrogant has been given enough air and it's time to let the thread die a natural death.

On further reflection (which is responsible for the hardening of my position), her claim to have spotted the cyclist 200m away just doesn't stack up. That's 2 entire rugby fields. Really?

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duncan16v
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby duncan16v » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:43 am

Troll feeding: achievement unlocked!

I wonder if this post is a consequence of the 1 in 20 Subaru driver nastiness going on elsewhere. The writing style is similar to posts on other forums from people defending the driver.

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biker jk
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby biker jk » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:44 am

duncan16v wrote:Troll feeding: achievement unlocked!

I wonder if this post is a consequence of the 1 in 20 Subaru driver nastiness going on elsewhere. The writing style is similar to posts on other forums from people defending the driver.


I have similar suspicions. I find it disappointing when such an obviously fictional post is defended by naive cyclists on this forum.

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby Arbuckle23 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:14 am

biker jk wrote:I have similar suspicions. I find it disappointing when such an obviously fictional post is defended by naive cyclists on this forum.


Just need to be aware the posters such as this can come on a forum purely to provoke some aggressive comments, which can then be linked on other social media to generate hate. I think the generally restrained comment on this thread has shows/proves that us cyclists are generally even thinking, good humans (stealing the Maven's terms :)). I think we should pat ourselves on our collective backs.

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silentC
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby silentC » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:31 am

I think they would get all the ammunition they need in the MM thread :)
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby Kronos » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:35 am

No sympathy really on the later count, I had a car pull out all the way over the top of a cycling lane just 2 days ago. If I am in the cycling lane and going across your path, I have right of way. "I didn't see you" is not an excuse.

As a cyclist I have to use my eyes and my ears as my eyes in the back of my head. Sometimes I have to keep an eye out for kooks who think its there right to drive in or over the cycling lane. If you endanger my life you will cop an ear full. Being a rode bike I have no horn, so get used to it.

My name is not super man, I do not like going flying through the air.

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby Arbuckle23 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:00 am

silentC wrote:I think they would get all the ammunition they need in the MM thread :)


Fair point :D

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:19 am

biker jk wrote:I have similar suspicions. I find it disappointing when such an obviously fictional post is defended by naive cyclists on this forum.


Not sure that is is 'obviously fictional' rather I describe it as 'factually questionable'. (Maybe that's the same thing). I get the context however and suggested in my previous post to the new forum member... a community is a collection of different people and it is just what happens.

It is good to move beyond the original posters content and motivation. Looking at the member reactions, there have been a few different approaches and being aware that this content is in the internet and accessible I seek a diplomatic response to show an understanding of the problem and with plausible responses which may entirely question the OP's arguments but are a much softer approach. My responses unfortunately get a bit long... need to improve.

When I consider others who then read, particularly readers who may share the OP's views, my hope is that my response contributes to community education and helps people gain an understanding - for example a motorist who simply has never even considered that passing so close to a bike rider could be a safety issue. If they then see the problem described and allow themself to see other perspective - it is a chance to help improve behaviour. Sometimes it works when the OP acknowledges... it is a small step in the right direction.

In other words... do I position myself as a dismissive opponent or a mediator?

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:54 am

AUbicycles wrote:
In other words... do I position myself as a dismissive opponent or a mediator?


As a site admin, you could only respond in a mediating and neutral manner, if a response is warranted.

My 2cents is that the title itself speaks volumes
Abusive Male Cyclist
. The OP version of events and apparent motivation to post appears to be either bait for knee-jerk commentary (who knows where this will then be regurgitated) or an attempt at deflection of blame in her own mind for what is obviously careless driving....if it occurred.

But, none of the responses seem to pay much attention to the poor (alleged) behaviour of an adult cyclist screaming at OP in the near proximity of a small child. (I've assumed the cyclist was an adult, and the child is small). The post is unclear in that, is her issue the fact that he yelled at her for no reason (in her mind), or that he yelled at her through a car window in the presence of a small child ?

Think the entire thread is a train-wreck and should vanish into the ether, never to be bookmarked again.
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby antigee » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:08 am

don't think it was on this forum but not so long ago read a comment that went something along the lines of "of course most motorists think cyclists are angry people - the majority of cyclist/motorist verbal interactions follow from one nearly killing the other"

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby trailgumby » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:34 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:The post is unclear in that, is her issue the fact that he yelled at her for no reason (in her mind), or that he yelled at her through a car window in the presence of a small child ?


I've been in the position of being "that cyclist".

The driver tailgated me down through The Rocks off The Bridge and then pulled up real close to my back wheel when i stopped for traffic at the solid line at the T intersecton with Hickson Road. When I mildly protested "You were a bit close, mate :? " he lurched his Jag up next to me across the pedestrian crossing, almost hitting me with the mirror, yelling "you were in the middle of the road! :evil: "

This was before the roundabout was built at the entrance to Barangaroo car park and apex of the off-camber corner was a sea of shiny metal hatch covers. You needed to choose your line with care.

It had been a bad morning with a couple of close passes. When he said that I snapped. He was justifying putting me in fear of my life because I inconvenienced him a couple of seconds. I flipped his mirror back, brushing the outer edge lightly with my pinky's second knuckle. I was a bit shocked when the mirror promptly fell apart. I hadn't seen his son sitting in the back seat until that point.

I copped abuse for doing it in front of his son. I responded that he should be more careful of the kind of example he was setting to his son with his driving behaviour and treatment of vulnerable road users.

The example thing cuts both ways.
Last edited by trailgumby on Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:52 pm

I can empathize fully tg, was making observations. Had similar scenarios just last Friday where I was test riding a bike I'd just put together, in Melb CBD. By the 4th attempt on my life, I served a delivery van driver a face-full, and deservedly so.
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby trailgumby » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:28 pm

Yep. Understand.

The cameras went back on after that.

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:59 pm

trailgumby wrote:Yep. Understand.

The cameras went back on after that.


made me laugh, sounds like a Detroit cop.
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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:01 pm

Admin Says: A post removed by battler2 which I found was very poor form

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:09 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:As a site admin, you could only respond in a mediating and neutral manner, if a response is warranted.


For BNA and my role, it is a good approach. Not as sensational and attention driven as others, but I feel it works well.

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby K2 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:56 am

AUbicycles wrote:..... My responses unfortunately get a bit long... need to improve.


Noooooooooo....etc. Verbose is much more preferable to "Me too", to me at least. TBH you just seem like someone who is wary of anyone taking any offence, as someone is nearly always wont to do on the interwebs, to what should be innocuous comments. And given your position, that is entirely understandable. If you want long-winded I'll be happy to demonstrate..... :)

The solution to poor Angela's problem seems fairly simple:-

He can't do much about his age, but [assuming that this is the only cycling forum on the internet and that participation is mandatory] if the cyclist concerned could please make sure he's wearing street clothes next time Angela pulls out in front of him without giving way [and given her track record it seems entirely plausible if they inhabit the same area. ie 1 post: 2 incidents already.], or even better, could arrange to be inside his car at the appropriate time, then abusing her for her rubbish driving would be entirely okay, apparently.

Hint for Angela for future forays into the righteous indignation business - Including so many of the standard shock jock cliches into what could possibly be a genuine concern not only obscures your primary grievance, but triggers alarm bells for those of a suspicious nature, as will no doubt have become evident.

And more generally in case any young players are watching, or for those who think Angela has been hard done by here [I've made this analogy before but it's probably worth repeating]...

Try to think of an online forum as the bar at a place where likeminded folk tend to gather, like your neighbourhood footy club, or one supporting local alternative music perhaps. There's going to be people there for a quiet drink, some couples canoodling in a corner, various discussions going on all over the shop, a few folk just surveying the scene, and perhaps a louder discussion growing louder still about verboten subjects like religion, politics, football, or MHL. You get the idea, right? It's not much of a stretch.

Now imagine Angela just marching into that bar and screaming "You're all a bunch of so-and-sos because I once go abused by someone wearing a replica football jersey" [or a SixFtHick t-shirt as the case may be].

What reaction might you expect given that situation?

By hitting the usual cyclist haters' tick boxes here, she's turned an incident into a much more general attack. In short, Angela was abused, perhaps, and feels that taking it out on others unconnected with the incident is appropriate. In effect, using some sort of astrological principle I presume, all MAMILs are misogynists and shouldn't be allowed around children but giving them a number plate will sort it. It's ludicrous! If she is incapable of accurately detecting the distance/speed of a cyclist, they're going to need to be sporting a plate the size of an aircraft wing for her to make it out...all so that she too can enjoy the total disinterest of the folk in blue.

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Re: Abusive Male Cyclists

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:33 am

Admin says: a completely inappropiate series of posts have been removed. My assumption is that members would have understood the first time - this is not the right forum (or place) for these topics. The forum rules provide more details.... read them.

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