Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

cooperplace
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Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby cooperplace » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:59 pm

reported here:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-08/c ... atenews_sa

as an SA cyclist, this isn't surprising. For me, there are two problems:
1. Car drivers who show no respect for cyclists, as shown by passing too close and abusing cyclists (these happen daily) and swerving towards and terrorizing cyclists (every few days);
2. Crap infrastructure, such as poor/variable/non-existent bike tracks, eg a bike lane near where I work that suddenly disappears as a 3-lane road shrinks to 2; here the cars are jockeying for spots, don't have time/inclination/desire to look out for bikes, and only a fool would ride their bike in that spot. Our govt has spent billions on the new Royal Adelaide Hospital, but bike access to it is a nightmare, and safe access is impossible. IMHO.

But maybe I'm too harsh and cynical, what do others think?
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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:16 pm

Clearly the state needs to invite Lance back and, again, over-claim the mantle of being "the cycling capital of Australia". :roll:

I can't fathom riding in Adelaide in the places with which I am familiar as there are too few continuous routes. Routes are broken at every intersection where cars, reasonably, have to cross over the bike lanes to turn left and right. I'm talking large numbers of intersections of arterial roads, not back streets.

No one's fault, it is just the way that the road network developed in earlier times.

I'm not even going to touch the subject of bike lanes being fifty percent rubbish-heavy spoon drain. They are just cheap painted lines so that the "cycle friendly" box can be ticked in place of paying for infrastructure.
Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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human909
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:20 pm

cooperplace wrote:But maybe I'm too harsh and cynical, what do others think?

Pretty much that. Though one key point is that it isn't just poor infrastructure it is entirely poor URBAN PLANNING. You can have all the good cycling infrastructure in the world but if continue to design our urban landscape with large travel distances cycling will remain unattractive.

cooperplace wrote:Our govt has spent billions on the new Royal Adelaide Hospital, but bike access to it is a nightmare, and safe access is impossible. IMHO.

Looks like hell on earth for cycling.

Can somebody remind me what lifestyle diseases are clogging up our hospitals again... :roll:

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:48 pm

It appears that the drop in cycling participation is more broad than just SA.
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MichaelB
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby MichaelB » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:33 pm

Bloody hell, it ain’t that bad.

I’d rather ride in Adelaide than Melbourne and the Gold Coast, and would never consider Sydney.

Then again, there are crap spots everywhere and for a country that never grew up with push bikes, it’s fine by me.

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RobertL
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby RobertL » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:45 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote: Routes are broken at every intersection where cars, reasonably, have to cross over the bike lanes to turn left and right.


The latest design standards* are that car lanes do not cross over bike lanes. They eliminate the higher speed "ramp" that motor vehicles use to turn left. Instead, the car lane and the bike lane go all the way to the junction. At the junction, cars turn left at a slower speed, because it is tighter, across the bike lane. If the junction warrants it, it should have traffic lights, with the bikes having their own signals to avoid bikes going straight ahead and cars turning left at the same time.

I saw a presentation on this by the Qld TMR at the last Brisbane CBD BUG meeting.

* not many roads meet these standards, though.

human909
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:19 pm

RobertL wrote:If the junction warrants it, it should have traffic lights, with the bikes having their own signals to avoid bikes going straight ahead and cars turning left at the same time.

Which sounds absurd and impractical, though I understand this is how many of Sydney's lanes work.

Why does Australia insist on reinventing the wheel. Why not simply look at what is done overseas?

human909
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:29 pm

MichaelB wrote:I’d rather ride in Adelaide than Melbourne

Not to make it a competition but, inner Melbourne is far more hospitable for cyclists. Though beyond the inner councils Melbourne is no stand out.

MichaelB wrote:Then again, there are crap spots everywhere and for a country that never grew up with push bikes, it’s fine by me.

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
Except we did. We simply chose to neglect bicycle since the 50s, even Holland did the same thing for a few decades until they realised their folly.

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Dreams V Reallity
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby Dreams V Reallity » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:54 pm

a country that never grew up with push bikes, :x

Correction, In the late 1800's and up to WWII, Australia was one of the highest cycling populations in the world. The bicycle was more common for shearers & swaggies than any other form of transport. :)
But I don't have any references to point you at. I just know it because I have read it. Don't remember where. I am in my 50's. :oops:
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Cyclophiliac
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby Cyclophiliac » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:31 am

human909 wrote:inner Melbourne is far more hospitable for cyclists.

Then Adelaide must be really bad. :roll: The motorists in inner Melbourne frequently behave like complete idiots.

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MichaelB
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby MichaelB » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:02 am

Yep, tram tracks must be HUGE fun for bikes ...

RobertL
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby RobertL » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:55 am

human909 wrote:
RobertL wrote:If the junction warrants it, it should have traffic lights, with the bikes having their own signals to avoid bikes going straight ahead and cars turning left at the same time.

Which sounds absurd and impractical, though I understand this is how many of Sydney's lanes work.

Why does Australia insist on reinventing the wheel. Why not simply look at what is done overseas?



Hmm, maybe I haven't explained it very well, but these designs are using the best of what we can learn from overseas. They really are quite good.

madmacca
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Re: Cyclist numbers decrease in SA

Postby madmacca » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:39 am

human909 wrote:
MichaelB wrote:I’d rather ride in Adelaide than Melbourne

Not to make it a competition but, inner Melbourne is far more hospitable for cyclists. Though beyond the inner councils Melbourne is no stand out.

MichaelB wrote:Then again, there are crap spots everywhere and for a country that never grew up with push bikes, it’s fine by me.

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
Except we did. We simply chose to neglect bicycle since the 50s, even Holland did the same thing for a few decades until they realised their folly.

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Human - from the photo, I can see the problem - we did away with pith helmets for the police (check the guy standing in the middle of the intersection).

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