New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

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Drizt
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Drizt » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:20 pm

That is truly bazaar.

So it paired by itself? And it is randomly controlling the lights?

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby PiratePete » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:39 pm

Drizt wrote:That is truly bazaar.

So it paired by itself? And it is randomly controlling the lights?


Yup.

I can't explain the pairing, the only thing I've gone into the sensor settings for since the CE cameras arrived was to enable a previously disabled Speed/cadence sensor which is on a bike I seldom use. Possibly I managed to touch 'add new' but not to my knowledge. As for the funky behaviour, given that I'm testing beta fw for Cycliq (currently for the fly6ce), I'm in regular communication with them and the explanation is that given the watch doesn't support it, nothing is controlling it, so a bug at Garmin's end of the solution, the camera is only going to do what it's told to.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Drizt » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:58 pm

Between Garmin and Cycliq, I'm not surprised there is such a bug.

Garmin have stuffed up LiveTrack and auto uploading to strava when using the garmin 1030. It is so very frustrating.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Jmuzz » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:29 pm

They need to get rid of the open pairing, that's why this has happened and probably other random glitches with other people's devices at cafes etc.

They should only allow a pairing within 30 seconds of a physical button press or powerup or something.

If someone doesn't have lights control headset then there is no need to keep RF enabled, besides when a button touched to wake it up. RF enabled only wastes battery and adds to camera sensor noise.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby solmanic » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:20 am

Jmuzz wrote:If the new unit still card ejects then it must be your card standing tall and you should source another card because it will interfere with the waterproof flap.


Just one thing I have noticed about the waterproof flap & SD cards - there is a raised area on the underside of the flap with a slot that should plug in around the SD card. I find you need to press the flap into place starting on the outermost edge working back over where the card is otherwise the raised area can press onto the card causing it to eject rather than slotting neatly around it like it should. The flap is soft rubber so as long as you have the slot correctly positioned over the edge of the card it shouldn't eject, and there should be plenty of tolerance for slightly different length cards.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby solmanic » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:35 am

PiratePete wrote:So, the details, the watch is a Garmin (need I say more), Vivoactive HR, the superseded one, not the nice new one that could almost pass as a watch rather than a geek thing. This device is employed as a backup to my ELEMNT for recording my rides, it doesn't satisfy this role particularly well as it's ANT+ supported sensor list is very short and does not include power meters, so the data is rather assumed.

When I finally work out what was going on, I discovered that at some point it had detected the ANT+ signal from the CE cameras and paired itself. This is rather strange because when I installed my Powertap P1 Power meter, it did not detect it. This is when I found out how limited the supported sensors was.

So when the ce camera's turned up from Cycliq, I didn't even bother to attempt to pair them, but somehow this has happened. They appear in the sensor list as 'Lights' as they would on a Garmin EDGE (which is supported by the CE's). The Cycliq camera's don't support the Garmin activity trackers, nor does Garmin support Cycliq cameras with their activity trackers.

The result is some pretty funky behaviour.

Moral of this story, if you have some weirdness going down with your cameras, and you have a watch or some other device that has ANT+ ability, check it.

I only really started looking down this line as at around 03:30am on Saturday while I was getting ready to head off for a bit of an adventure ride. While standing in the dark at home both the cameras turned on their lights simultaneously, no hands... The only way that could happen was an external influence.

in my playing, I've now observed this influence to power the cameras on but more importantly OFF. The other common thing observed is the turning of the lights to on, or flashing.


I've noticed similar behavior with my Garmin Edge25+ (the smallest watch-size Garmin with ANT+). It automatically connects to the Fly6CE and shows the connect lights icon on the tiny display. When I turn the Garmin on it sometimes (not always) turns the Fly6 on, camera only sometimes, camera + lights other times. The other morning I turned it on, the Fly6 turned on too but when I pressed the lights button to toggle between flashing modes, the lights would do their thing for about 5 seconds then switch off again. I cannot seem to replicate the behavior at my desk with both units, but when I mount them to the bike it's a lottery as to how the FLy6 will behave. It hasn't affected the camera function though, other than automatically turning on when the Garmin turns on.

It seems that although the Garmin25 has ANT+ and recognises the Fly6CE, it lacks the extended controls of the larger units to correctly control it. I can't seem to manually override the connection except by telling the Garmin to "forget all sensors" but then it keeps beeping to let me know that it has identified a new light and asking me to connect. Also I can't see any option in the Fly6 settings to disable ANT+ connectivity.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby PiratePete » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:01 pm

solmanic wrote:... Also I can't see any option in the Fly6 settings to disable ANT+ connectivity.


I've suggested that a switch be added to the app to disable the ANT+. I'll wait and see, but it make sense to me to be able to prevent outside influence if the user wishes. I don't know if this is a technical possibility on either the Fly6 or 12, but I've popped a note into the suggestion box.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Jmuzz » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:11 pm

BLE could cause the same issues.
But can't disable it without locking out the phone.

But that's where the 30 seconds enabled after powerup comes in, you can establish in that period and it would then stay awake until a longer timeout.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:53 pm

PiratePete wrote:
Drizt wrote:That is truly bazaar.

So it paired by itself? And it is randomly controlling the lights?


Yup.

I can't explain the pairing, the only thing I've gone into the sensor settings for since the CE cameras arrived was to enable a previously disabled Speed/cadence sensor which is on a bike I seldom use. Possibly I managed to touch 'add new' but not to my knowledge. As for the funky behaviour, given that I'm testing beta fw for Cycliq (currently for the fly6ce), I'm in regular communication with them and the explanation is that given the watch doesn't support it, nothing is controlling it, so a bug at Garmin's end of the solution, the camera is only going to do what it's told to.


You would not believe this. My wife just came home, took off her Garmin watch and plugged it in to charge. My Fly6CE, which was sitting here on the charger then just went crazy...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tuimwrflig6g5zv/FLY6CRAZY.MOV

I couldn't power the camera off. I had to open the App on the phone in order to stop it.

Totally bizarre
Last edited by queequeg on Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Jmuzz » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:33 pm

"let me sing you the song of my people"
It is quite nice tune :)

I had to delete the ?DL=0 part for link to work on my phone, if anyone has same trouble

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:49 pm

queequeg wrote:You would not believe this. My wife just came home, took off her Garmin watch and plugged it in to charge. My Fly6CE, which was sitting here on the charger then just went crazy...


Flipped out, walked out and slammed the door and was found drunk in a shopping trolly at 4am the next day by police. Apologised to the wife, got cleaned up, bought flowers and has been on best behaviour for a week.


I have a replacement rear camera on the way.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby PiratePete » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:54 am

queequeg wrote:You would not believe this. My wife just came home, took off her Garmin watch and plugged it in to charge. My Fly6CE, which was sitting here on the charger then just went crazy...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tuimwrflig6g5zv/FLY6CRAZY.MOV

I couldn't power the camera off. I had to open the App on the phone in order to stop it.

Totally bizarre


It hasn't gone crazy, the alarm was triggered.

Of all my experimentation I haven't seen this one, and wonder if the Garmin device could even do that? The ANT+ communication is for enabling and disabling lights, which my Garmin watch can do erroneously, but not enabling the alarm.

Are you sure that you hadn't done that from the app at some point earlier?
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:14 am

PiratePete wrote:
queequeg wrote:You would not believe this. My wife just came home, took off her Garmin watch and plugged it in to charge. My Fly6CE, which was sitting here on the charger then just went crazy...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tuimwrflig6g5zv/FLY6CRAZY.MOV

I couldn't power the camera off. I had to open the App on the phone in order to stop it.

Totally bizarre


It hasn't gone crazy, the alarm was triggered.

Of all my experimentation I haven't seen this one, and wonder if the Garmin device could even do that? The ANT+ communication is for enabling and disabling lights, which my Garmin watch can do erroneously, but not enabling the alarm.

Are you sure that you hadn't done that from the app at some point earlier?


The camera was off and in Airplane Mode. My wife plugged in her Garmin nearby, but did not touch the camera. It's possible that the Alarm mode got enabled again when I did the Firmware upgrade, but the device was supposedly shut down.

I'll need to look into more.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:52 pm

I got that dreaded... turn itself off on the Fly6CE. I heardbeeps but while riding don’t want to screw around with tech. I tested that the fronf was still on and the beep wasn’t the typically ‘turn off’ sk I assumed it was just a warning beep.

Then came the porsche with the young i experienced blond girl who overtook with centimeters to spare and when I got back home... great, the rear camera is off.

It was fully charged before and it was at (about) the 80 minute mark. A replacement is on the way because this one had the dodgy waterproof seal and the lens fogged but cleared again after drying and was otherwise ok.

Overall, there are sone nice improvements but also some significant issues which should have long been resolved considering it is generation 4 for the fly6 and generation 3 for fly12.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Drizt » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:06 pm

The hardware issues are a real worry.

I'd also keep away from the CE models until they have at least resolved the video quality issues.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:45 am

AUbicycles wrote:I got that dreaded... turn itself off on the Fly6CE. I heardbeeps but while riding don’t want to screw around with tech. I tested that the fronf was still on and the beep wasn’t the typically ‘turn off’ sk I assumed it was just a warning beep.


Did you update firmware?
It was a serious problem with the earlier version which they still ship with.

I recommend turning the crash detection off completely.
They turn the camera off after a crash trigger. But the result is that false triggers or laying bike down for a pee ruin the more important dashcam functionality.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby caneye » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:36 am

Also check your SD card.

My CE stopped working after a break during our ride yesterday. I turned it on and instead of a rotating light on the bezel (indicating recording), I got a blinking bezel and it refused to start recording.
After the ride, when I connect to the CE via the Cycliq app on my mobile phone, I found out that the SD card had somehow worked itself loose. I pushed it back in and it started recording again.

just fyi .. and suggestion to try connecting to the CE via the App as part of trouble-shooting .. (although I find it it a step too much to be mucking around with the app during a group ride).
Last edited by caneye on Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby biker jk » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:44 am

I think Cycliq is spending too much time and money on marketing rather than product development and PROPER testing.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Mububban » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:21 pm

biker jk wrote:I think Cycliq is spending too much time and money on marketing rather than product development and PROPER testing.


I have a love/hate relationship with my Fly6 and 12. I bought them as they were supposedly "set and forget" but I'm having to format the cards semi regularly which is a PITA. Especially if it fails during a long ride, as it did recently when the SD card filled up and it wouldn't loop over the old footage.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:30 pm

I have run the Fly12CE and the Fly6CE on my bike for a few commutes now, and my overall view is that the picture quality is pretty awful compared to my original Garmin VIRB cameras, which have super sharp pictures, and which due to a rock solid mounting system also have no jitter whatsoever.
Sure, the Garmin camera has less battery life (2hours max in real life conditions), and "only" does 1080p@30fps (so in high speed action, you can miss a number plate), and the size of the device means you need a lot of real estate on your bars, and under your saddle. I went with the Fly cameras to streamline my setup, and I really love the idea of two less big devices on my bike, but the cameras have a fair way to go.

If the usability of the cameras wasn't such a pain, I could overlook some of the picture quality issues. I have not ridden them in the rain yet, but my Garmin cameras performed pretty well even in atrocious conditions.

I will see how I go over the coming months with the the Fly devices before I make a final call, but they appear very much like I am a beta-tester on what should, by now, be a totally bullet proof design. My garmin cameras, after they sorted the early firmware out, have been absolutely set and forget. Turn camera on, flick big slider switch, ride. My front camera also started my rear camera recording, and from the Garmin head unit I could take a still photo on both cameras at the same time if I wanted a still image of something without stopping the recording.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Drizt » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:34 pm

Totally agree.

If the Virb cameras had at least 5 hours run time and supported file rolling over, they would be my choice. The picture quality is heaps better on the virbs than the fly units. The fly6ce is almost not fit for purpose in my eyes.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:13 pm

Drizt wrote:If the Virb cameras had at least 5 hours run time and supported file rolling over, they would be my choice.


Yeah but that's the real trick, getting acceptable quality out of a sensor and efficient compression with low power.

If someone could do it they would be taking Cycliq on now.
Perhaps they are and that is why the CE versions are such a big change and previous versions are still for sale. The whole thing may have been a new Chinese competitor who agreed to join forces rather than compete?

Can't explain why the whole actioncam market is so against supporting loop recording. Perhaps there is something in the licensing of the processing they use which demands higher prices if they do that? Or some patent claims which the big names are afraid to fight?
Video formats are a patent nightmare, it may all seem obvious evolution of film movies but there are some major patent trolls and huge money involved.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Drizt » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:17 pm

Gopro with the extended battery pack was acceptable from a run time perspective and Excellent video quality. But it also didn't have video looping. Video looping is simply file management, I can't see there possibly being any restrictions on implementation there.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:39 pm

Drizt wrote:Totally agree.

If the Virb cameras had at least 5 hours run time and supported file rolling over, they would be my choice. The picture quality is heaps better on the virbs than the fly units. The fly6ce is almost not fit for purpose in my eyes.


The VIRB cameras that I have do support looping, however not the same way as the Fly cameras. You specify a recording loop time, which maxs out at 30min, and the camera splits that into 5 files of equal size, and it just keep deleting the oldest file when a new one is created. The downside is you only then have a max of 30 min of camera footage, not a loop based on the size of your memory card.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Drizt » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:45 pm

Yeh, that doesn't really cut the mustard as real looping.

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