New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

bianchi928
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby bianchi928 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:26 pm

Has anyone whop was experiencing the shutdown caused by triggering of the incident mode updated the firmware and used their Fly 6 ce for a long period.

Mine appears to have worked but I've only ridden for 1 hours since the firmware update.
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Jmuzz
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Jmuzz » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:55 pm

Mine (split between 2 units, they sent a replacement for water leak) has not suffered a false incident after update.

Actually disabled it now for last 2 days riding, I think (having issues with defaults restoring if Android app talks to it) since it's not a feature I want anyway.

I don't want it triggering when I lay the bike down for a pee/rest and I have a second mini light on my backpack which negates the need for limp home or blinking in a ditch. Though the feature has it's good points.


On that topic of blinking in a ditch. I spent a few hours out at night looking for an AWOL motorbike friend on a mountain pass the other week (all good, just changed plans and went off grid without phoning home), looking into the ditches, off cliffs.
He is one of these "stealth is cool" with reflectors taken off etc.
It's a huge PITA! If he was dieing in a ditch the cold mountain rain came and he wouldn't have been found and died out there.
Have reflective stickers which make you and the bike glow when a torch hits it.
Have a little red blinker with long runtime so you can't be missed at night, run it in the day too because when the search party is deployed it will be night.
Also maximize chances of Find Phone working, though obviously there are mobile deadspots. Make sure a mate is able to access that.

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queequeg
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:41 pm

I just did the firmware update for my Fly6CE in preparation for resuming commuting next week, and I think the darn thing has become bricked in the process.

I have found a design flaw in the camera. The supplied USB-C cable is quite big, and on the FlyCE is actually contacts with the microSD card, and at least on my camera is just enough to push the card in far enough to trigger the eject mechanism. The result is that when you remove the USB-C cable, the microSD card can eject.

While I was doing the firmware update, it went through the first part ok, then I heard short series of beeps and the camera just sat there with the lower light on the bezel ring lit up, then it refused to go any further. When I lifted the rubber flap on top the camera, the memory card had been ejected from the slot. Now the lower led light is still on, and I can't power off the camera or reset it, so almost certainly it's a brick.
I checked what had happened, and sure enough, the housing on the USB-C cable is so big that it pushes the microSD down and when you remove the cable, the card comes out with out. It happens about 2/3 times you insert the cable and remove it. I was unlucky in that it only partially ejected and was held in place for about 10 seconds by the rubber flap before the spring mechanism pushed the card all the way while it was reading the DFU firmware from the card.

I've got a Support Case open with Cycliq to see what to do about it. I'd be curious to know if anyone else has had this issue?
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

Jmuzz
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Jmuzz » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:08 pm

Can confirm the cable ejecting the card.
Have been using my Samsung phones cable now and not even sure where the original has hidden itself.

They are pretty good with sending a replacement which I expect they will do straight away if there isn't an unbricking procedure.

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queequeg
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:15 pm

Jmuzz wrote:Can confirm the cable ejecting the card.
Have been using my Samsung phones cable now and not even sure where the original has hidden itself.

They are pretty good with sending a replacement which I expect they will do straight away if there isn't an unbricking procedure.


Yeah, I am hoping it's just a straight swap if there is no unbricking process, and I will be looking for some some slimline USB-C cables that don't eject the card. Must be a common issue, given the firmware update involves unplugging from the commuter, which immediately causes the reboot of the camera.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby PiratePete » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:24 pm

queequeg wrote:...Must be a common issue, given the firmware update involves unplugging from the commuter, which immediately causes the reboot of the camera.


I just received mine yesterday, I did the firmware update but I copied the file onto the SD card plugged into my computer, then plugged it into the camera. If the USB connector is an issue as you say the way I did the update might be better than copying the file across with the camera itself plugged into your computer.

I've plugged the camera in to two different cables so far including the Cycliq supplied cable and not seen the issue as yet. But I might still be acting a little cautiously still...
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Drizt
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Drizt » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:18 pm

List of issues:

Fly12CE
- The video quality is too dark. In anything other than direct sun light it is very hard to see detail.
- Turns off randomly (no known pattern).
- Sometimes is just fails to record. Looks like it is working, but no files recorded.
- Downgraded SD card support. 32GB support is woeful. 128GB support is required.

Fly6CE
- The video quality is horrendous compared to the Fly12CE with the exact same settings.
- The video is washed out and loses lots of details in direct sun light.
- The video files are 50% smaller than the Fly12CE files with the exact same settings. It appears that the Fly6CE is using very aggressive lossy compression.
- Turns off randomly (no known pattern).
- Sometimes is just fails to record. Looks like it is working, but no files recorded.
- Downgraded SD card support. 32GB support is woeful. 128GB support is required.


Until these issues are resolved, I would not recommend buying the units.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Jmuzz » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:12 pm

A crappier camera will compress better because of more under/over exposed areas and more blobs with smeared pixels.
So might just be that.

Does need tweaks.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby PiratePete » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:37 pm

Jmuzz wrote:A crappier camera will compress better because of more under/over exposed areas and more blobs with smeared pixels.
So might just be that.

Does need tweaks.


Its a FW balancing act. The higher the bit rate, the better the footage, and dramatically larger file size. Larger file size means hight latency for writing file, which can generate other operational issues. I don't know where they're at with these new cameras and issues relating to this however I suspect that while they have a reason to only support 32GB cards, that they will be keeping the bit rate down to give a longer amount of footage before overwrite.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Jmuzz » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:15 pm

The 32GB is a mystery because larger does seem to work.

Card speed always an issue, the actual stats are complex and have to be tested with a card at capacity in loop overwrite mode (a blank card has a much easier time being able to write everywhere, loop is limited to overwriting the deleted files free space).

I did a test recompressing in Handbrake, highest quality.
Original 834 new 600
So that's not bad, can't ask for much more compression when battery life is primary concern. More compression chews more power for the processor to crunch away.

Not played with higher compression, not much point when quality is important.

I would rather a lower frame rate with better HDR, light explosion is bad at night. Headlights wipe it out.

(image host has recompressed and made it blobbier)
Image

The amount of glow, especially the green traffic light, is lens not anything from compression. My lens is a bit dirty too, unavoidable consequence of being above uncovered tyre.

If you got hit from behind at night all its going to see is a big white screen.
Last edited by Jmuzz on Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Drizt
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Drizt » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:22 pm

I want less compression on the fly6ce. Just make it the same as fly12ce.

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queequeg
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:51 pm

PiratePete wrote:
queequeg wrote:...Must be a common issue, given the firmware update involves unplugging from the commuter, which immediately causes the reboot of the camera.


I just received mine yesterday, I did the firmware update but I copied the file onto the SD card plugged into my computer, then plugged it into the camera. If the USB connector is an issue as you say the way I did the update might be better than copying the file across with the camera itself plugged into your computer.

I've plugged the camera in to two different cables so far including the Cycliq supplied cable and not seen the issue as yet. But I might still be acting a little cautiously still...


I still have my support case open. I had to record a video for them to show them what was happening, as they don't seem to have any reports of it happening to anyone else, despite Jmuzz having the same issue. Anyway, the video I did for them showed the issue happening every time I plugged in the USB cable and then removed it. I even showed that the card was seated correctly, but demonstrating a normal card insert/eject sequence. I have no idea what they are going to do. At this stage I still have a brand new bricked camera caused by the card ejecting itself in the middle of the update (because the rubber cap temporarily kept it in until the critical moment).
Maybe after a few more people report the issue, they'll rush out a new USB-C cable design to stop it pushing the microSD card down.
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Drizt
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Drizt » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:54 pm

Strange I haven't had that issue at all.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Drizt » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:59 pm

What sd card you using? Maybe it is bigger or a different shape than normal?

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Jmuzz » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:59 pm

Just found the official cable and it may be ok actually.
Must have been another cable causing the popout.

It comes close, but it didn't pop.

It is just rubber stuff so could be imprecise? Perhaps just slice it a little?

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:16 am

Jmuzz wrote:Just found the official cable and it may be ok actually.
Must have been another cable causing the popout.

It comes close, but it didn't pop.

It is just rubber stuff so could be imprecise? Perhaps just slice it a little?


I'll see what they say. It's possible that it is my camera, with the USB-C port mounted slightly too low. It shouldn't come into contact with the memory card at all, but on my one it happens just about every time. Right now I have a bricked camera so just hoping they see my video and just swap it over, at the very least so they can see if they have a QA issue to deal with.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Jmuzz » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:34 am

No word on a factory reset procedure like holding both buttons for 20 seconds or something? Or a special PC app with cable reflash?

Bricking isn't something that should happen with modern devices, there is no excuse for not having a ROM bootloader. In the bad old days memory was tight and you had to do risky things, but now it is supposed to be invincible.

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queequeg
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:47 pm

Jmuzz wrote:No word on a factory reset procedure like holding both buttons for 20 seconds or something? Or a special PC app with cable reflash?

Bricking isn't something that should happen with modern devices, there is no excuse for not having a ROM bootloader. In the bad old days memory was tight and you had to do risky things, but now it is supposed to be invincible.


They are yet to give me any procedure to attempt a reload of the firmware. It stuffed up on the first part of the fly6 update, which is the fly6.dfu file.

I would have thought if there was a simple process, they would have told me by now. Instead, they are examining my video to validate my claim that the card pops up when you remove the cable.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby caneye » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:22 pm

I have to say I've not had issues with the USB plug that came with the Fly6CE.
There's a very small gap between the plug and the card. I can see how the plug could accidentally push the card out if either one part is out of tolerance.

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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:23 pm

caneye wrote:I have to say I've not had issues with the USB plug that came with the Fly6CE.
There's a very small gap between the plug and the card. I can see how the plug could accidentally push the card out if either one part is out of tolerance.


Here’s the video:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qfgu5wu8emyp ... m.mov?dl=0
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Drizt
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby Drizt » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:35 pm

That is strange. From looking at the video the cable looks like it goes further in than it does on our unit.

Definitely a silly design. Why have so little clearance?

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queequeg
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:09 pm

Drizt wrote:That is strange. From looking at the video the cable looks like it goes further in than it does on our unit.

Definitely a silly design. Why have so little clearance?


The only thing I can think of is that my unit is faulty, with either the USB connector set too far into the unit, or the microSD card slot set too high, or possibly both. That in combination with a chunky cable is not a good recipe. Unfortunately what happened to me is that I had copied the firmware file over to the SD card, then as instructed I unplugged the cable from the unit. It restarted and was through the first part of the update when it beeped four or five times in quick sucession, then stopped dead. When I inspected it, underneath the rubber cap I noticed that the card had been ejected, and all I was thinking "Hmm, I didn't know you could auto eject a micoSD card like that". Well, turns out you can't, as it does this every time. The firmware update was the first time I had inserted a card into it, since it is brand new and I was getting it ready to install on the bike.

Still no update from Cycliq on what to do.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby PiratePete » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:02 pm

queequeg wrote:The only thing I can think of is that my unit is faulty, with either the USB connector set too far into the unit, or the microSD card slot set too high, or possibly both.


Comparing yours with mine it appears that your SD card is sitting nearly 1 millimetre higher. I'd be surprised if its the card, but what about the supplied Cycliq card, does it suffer the same issue?
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby queequeg » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:21 pm

PiratePete wrote:
queequeg wrote:The only thing I can think of is that my unit is faulty, with either the USB connector set too far into the unit, or the microSD card slot set too high, or possibly both.


Comparing yours with mine it appears that your SD card is sitting nearly 1 millimetre higher. I'd be surprised if its the card, but what about the supplied Cycliq card, does it suffer the same issue?


The Fly6CE and Fly12CE do not come with microSD cards. You have to supply your own. I tried another brand of card, and I couldn't get it to eject. When you compare the two cards there is about a hair width of difference between the two cards. I also found that it seems to depend on which way you plug the cable in, so one side of the USB-C plug housing has a higher ridge than the other.

I'd say it is just a case of a very tight tolerance for the USB-C plug, the card slot, and the cable size. If you happen to get all three even marginally outside the built-in tolerance of the device, the cable will interfere with the card. Really, this shouldn't happen at all. On the Fly12CE, he USB-C and card slots are nowhere near each other. I appreciate that space is tight on the Fly6CE, but I would have made the card slot less susceptible to interference. I would very surprised if I am he only one who has had this problem. Maybe the first unfortunate enough to have it happen during a firmware update, but I just can't believe this hasn't been seen during testing or QA.
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Re: New Fly6 CE and Fly12 CE Camera's

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:33 pm

When I looked at the video the microSD card appears to sit quite high queequeg. Do you have a few other cards just to compare height. I can check mine and see what the clearance is.

My first verdict and also with simultaneous testing against the last generation Fly6 and Fly12.

Fly6 v Fly6CE
The new camera provides a significantly clearer image and the wider angle is good. The older Fly6 has a cloudy image, not as sharp. The bew one has higher contrast but is also slightly darker. It has the native Mp4 format, a massive step from the .avi format,

Fly12 v Fly12CE
The new camera has a darker image and is slightly less crisp... so softer / unsharp. The old camera has a over-shapened type effect which actually helps identify details.In the wrong light (lot of sky) details can get lost in darkness. I have tested only on factory default and is has a narrower field of view. The darker image can be enough to make numberplate legibility harder. It has a larger file size though. Old is 755 Mb and new is 1.17GB. I think that stabilisation may be on so will try turning it off.

There are a few tests to do. I link the shape / format of the new cameras though with the front Fly12CE, the current results don't yet indicate a step up, rather there are some issues - but it is early days and I have to test it a bit more.

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