Comedian wrote:Lukeyboy wrote:Oh look human909 is off on another triad about how he knows everything. Kudos for you mate. Go buy and leave some Zipp 404s outside for a year and see what happens. Or leave a carbon frame out in the elements and see what happens. Then see how your accc rights will fair.
So the problem is the bicycle industry is selling less durable products than they ever have before. Products that are very susceptible to all types of damage that was never the case in the past.
Depends on what the item is and how its treated. Is a muppet behind the bars or is it some one with experience. Is it someone that looks after their ceramic bearings or is it someone that runs them into the ground and then gets angry that they cost a bundle to replace. Is it a 16 spoke carbon rim vs a 36h alpine spoked alloy rim? Its the same with wheelbuilding. Take HPlusSon Archetype rims. They are very good rims but they have one design flaw. Alloy nipples. There are two ways around it. Lace them with brass nipples or build them with 2mm longer spokes using a 2mm longer offset nipple as the weakspot is around the the nipple head which cops extra load from the drillings on those particular rims. Its a similar story when it comes to carbon wheels where their biggest problem is heat and the resin. Is the rider a muppet that trail brakes on the long descents keeping the heat built up in the rim reducing its performance/warping the rim or is it someone with experience that can flow through corners and use minimal/precise braking which allows for the heat to dissipate quickly?
Then you also have stuff the designers have done and then an account comes along. Its the mess that we see now with the Giant Propels and the Di2 designed frames now having mechanical versions. You know what steel cables love? Big 'S' kinks through the top and down tubes. You see the same on TT bikes. And that's also led to the mess that is now known as aero brakes.
But these days you have a lot more choice of what you can get with a bike. Do you want performance? Aggression? Reliability? Redundancy? Commuter? CX? MTB? Gravel grinders? Electronic gears (not just for race bikes - ever built up a customer di2 flatbar bike before for an older rider - what about a Di2 cruiser bike with TT aero brakes/shifters on the bars)? Touring? Disc brake? Alloy? Carbon? Steel? Hell... ebikes? Cargo/transport?
You just have to know what to look for. If you don't know what to look for you look for the right people.
Comedian wrote:The problem is - when the customer is there with his/her wallet hand twitching they are afraid to say
"Mate... just so you know - if you let this bike fall over at a cafe and it lands on something badly it will break.. if it gets a decent hit from a rock while riding... if you clamp it incorrectly putting it on your car, and if you have any type of crash at all it will very likely be damaged or will require an inspection that is more expensive than it's worth. Mount your bike in a trainer and it cracks that's not a warranty item. If you over torque a bolt by a smidge..or god forbid you leave the bike outside for any time at all... These are not warrantable incidents and you'll need to get insurance or be prepared to pay for repairs or buy a new bike when it happens to you."
The problem is they don't want them going to the next guy who definitely won't mention any of this.. And the marketing says if it's good for the pro's it's very good for you. The problem is if the pro's break one they just grab one off the rack..
And all that depends on 'who' is selling 'you' the bike. The good and dedicated sales persons will go through with the customer about what bike they should buy, tell them the pros and cons, the advantages and disadvantages, tell them what size bike is right for them, listening to what they plan to do and offer a cheaper model or suggesting a higher up model, the differences of carbon vs alloy, components, explain to them the inns and outs etc. The customer might be interested in a bike thats on sale but the sale is only on current floor stock and not in their size. The good staff will explain to them the cons of why they shouldn't purchase it.
Is its someone there just wanting to earn a pay cheque or someone who is passionate about the industry. Is it someone that will stay behind 60 minutes after the store was supposed to be closed explaining and showing the differences to the customer. The same with the good mechanics. The great ones won't bs you around and will give it to you straight even when at times you don't want to hear it. You might not like what they said at the time but after you think about it you knew just how correct they actually were.
In saying all that there are also other staff influences. This can be due to how upper management is run or even how their pay is calculated - such as a percentage sales based tiered level income.
Its why there are people in the industry that are recommended for their non bs. And even then those same people have their own recommendations for other sales/mechanics in other stores.
silentC wrote:Correction: one guy bought a new Dogma and had to send it back because it had a crack near the BB. It was brand new.
I've had to warranty a warranty frame because the carbon seat stays were miss aligned. If it was made of another material you just grab some tools and bent it back but not with carbon. I've sent Shimano back Dura Ace C24s because there was a warp in the braking surface. I've had lights DOA. Some things get past inspections.
My 2013 propel is in the 25k area. Still going strong (even when off the bike for 10 months due to injury). Still getting koms. Still getting into those breakaways. Its been down the road a few times. Crashed at the roundabout outside the servo in the rain. Tboned a bike at 47kph and only bent the hanger (got a pr over the gateway bridge with it stuck in gear with the Di2 cable removed). Heard it (I think. Could have been my ribs or my collarbone breaking) getting hit by someones crank at states (took a chunk of the carbon out of the fork but I fixed it....with some race tape - replaced the fork but the frame is still going strong).