Stone Chips that crack your frame,who is responsible?

[P!N20]

The topic has long since turned into a spat between the pro-carbon and anti-carbon factions.

Wouldn't have happened if they had disc brakes.

[g-boaf]

The topic has long since turned into a spat between the pro-carbon and anti-carbon factions.

Wouldn't have happened if they had disc brakes.

You win the internet.

[Lukeyboy]

Only frame I've ever seen broken from trainer use was aluminium.....

Yeah, but you, me and Lukeyboy must be part of the carbon conspiracy theory.

Only my strava account believes in conspiracy theories

I've only ever seen 2 frames damaged from a wind trainer. An alloy frame where the clamps weren't done up tight enough and allowed for movement in the trainer. The second was a carbon frame that had the clamps done up too tight by this guy.

Good bloke that. Did you know his workshop had to be fire proofed to protect neighbours from the spontaneous combustion of all those carbon frames?

Never seen a carbon frame combust spontaneously but we had our shop flood premiums go up due to headset services.


We also had some CFMEU guys turn up giving us a hard time about using non union members to remove spoil from inside a Merida.

[fat and old]

Wait....is it the bike or the floor that's carbon fibre?

[CKinnard]

Personally, I don't mind when fat boys buy $10,000+ carbon roadies.
Most I know find them way too uncomfortable, and end up selling at <200km, wearing a $5000+ loss.

Last FB example I knew paid $18,000 for bragging rights at coffee....had the bike a full year, but after 6 weeks of pain, it sat in his garage until his new wife moved in.....new wife new life.

He did well because the shop (Semi Racer) in Brisbane found a buyer who forked over $12,000 for it (according to the seller....he might have been fibbing though).

[baabaa]

10 pages.

[Lukeyboy]

10 pages.

....and a Netflix series!

[Lukeyboy]

Wait....is it the bike or the floor that's carbon fibre?

The bike is carbon and the ground is cement which was cracked during the great nokia drop of 2004.

[silentC]

Hey, I've only got 5 pages! It's a rip off!

[AUbicycles]

If you drill a few holes around the weld / join of a headset then it helps any excess water drain easily and allows the steerer to breath. Don't forget that you needs holes at both the top tube and down tube joints to make it work properly. The bigger the drill bit, the faster the water will drain.

[baabaa]

True and a very important here-to-help-fact, but worth noting that small holes can be made to drain quick in the headtube if you use a rotary hammer and rusty masonry bit combo.

[fat and old]

If you drill a few holes around the weld / join of a headset then it helps any excess water drain easily and allows the steerer to breath. Don't forget that you needs holes at both the top tube and down tube joints to make it work properly. The bigger the drill bit, the faster the water will drain.

No fair, I believe everything you say!

My poor Cervelo

[Comedian]

My mate has a 2014 Merida Ride that has 35k, is that getting in the ball park? He weighs in at around 90kg and does about 160km per week. He has also fallen off it at least 3 times that I know of.

If you're saying 'carbon bikes only last 2 to 3 years' I'm saying anecdotally there's not enough evidence to support that assertion. I have no cases I know of where people here have replaced bikes because the frames failed, and several cases of guys who are still riding old bikes around.

Maybe instead of me trying to prove you wrong, since you're the one making the claim you could give us actual numbers on bikes sold versus frames that died within 3 years. Then we'll have something to work on. Maybe your mates are just clumsy and don't look after their bikes

I'm really astonished you don't know anyone who has had a CF frame failure. That's not my experience. The booming trade in CF repair shops (which doesn't account for warranty frames) suggests that it's more common than you think.

As to figures.. impossible to get. The bike industry doesn't make this kind of info public. How do you propose I get this info?

So, in the meantime (and probably forever) I imagine we're stuck with anecdotal evidence. The problems with getting this are...

- The last thing the manufacturers want is you saying "My CF frame cracked after 18 months.. and I had to buy another. I'll never touch another XXXXX". So when they replace they usually do try and look after the customer. If he does go around telling everyone they hope it will be a good news story. In my experience people generally don't discuss it unless asked. I went around asking everyone because I'm like that.
- Even if there was a miracle and a bike manufacturer did disclose their warranty data all we would have is time do failure - not distance. Which to be honest is pretty useless IMHO given how variable bike usage is. Many people have absolutely no idea how many k's their bike has done.. The rest probably only have a ball park figure. I think strava is helping in this regard somewhat.

I'm delighted to hear of some people with CF frames in the 30's - although I know of only one personally.

[Lukeyboy]

If you're saying 'carbon bikes only last 2 to 3 years' I'm saying anecdotally there's not enough evidence to support that assertion. I have no cases I know of where people here have replaced bikes because the frames failed, and several cases of guys who are still riding old bikes around.

Maybe instead of me trying to prove you wrong, since you're the one making the claim you could give us actual numbers on bikes sold versus frames that died within 3 years. Then we'll have something to work on. Maybe your mates are just clumsy and don't look after their bikes

I'm really astonished you don't know anyone who has had a CF frame failure. That's not my experience. The booming trade in CF repair shops (which doesn't account for warranty frames) suggests that it's more common than you think.

As to figures.. impossible to get. The bike industry doesn't make this kind of info public. How do you propose I get this info?

So, in the meantime (and probably forever) I imagine we're stuck with anecdotal evidence. The problems with getting this are...

- The last thing the manufacturers want is you saying "My CF frame cracked after 18 months.. and I had to buy another. I'll never touch another XXXXX". So when they replace they usually do try and look after the customer. If he does go around telling everyone they hope it will be a good news story. In my experience people generally don't discuss it unless asked. I went around asking everyone because I'm like that.
- Even if there was a miracle and a bike manufacturer did disclose their warranty data all we would have is time do failure - not distance. Which to be honest is pretty useless IMHO given how variable bike usage is. Many people have absolutely no idea how many k's their bike has done.. The rest probably only have a ball park figure. I think strava is helping in this regard somewhat.

I'm delighted to hear of some people with CF frames in the 30's - although I know of only one personally.

Hello You know what I like? Having a camera phone in a workshop

Also to be fair Mr Comedian there are some manufactures out there that know their carbon frames and components will break be it within a year or 5 years down the road ridden by a teenager, a 200kg gorilla that likes to descend down tall buildings or an 80 year old that only rides the bike on sundays to and from chuch via that single track behind it. And when they do they are excellent with coming to a resolution in a very very quick time frame. And I think you will know which one I'm talking about Then there are others that will be hard asses over it. There are distributors/importers that have no idea what they are doing. And then there are those distributors/importers that want to do good but have to abide by the manufactures warranty procedures.

But back to some fun

Yay new bike build day!


Crap it already has a crack in the top of the seat tube. Now where did I put the bike bible.


But hey. You could have one of those Merida forks. This wasn't part of the 2017 Merida and Bianchi carbon fork recall but hey, maybe they should have extended it a few more years if you read the location of where the fork fails on the recall section
http://www.merida.com.au/en_au/news/pro ... -2733.html


Or this fork.


How about a 6 month old carbon stem?


Here is the carbon internals from a hub. Apparently there was a ticking/clicking sound from memory.


Apparently this carbon hub broke a spoke.


As too did its silver version


One thing you don't want to crack is one of the carbon linkages on your dualie.


Ahhh almost got you. Those last few aren't carbon.

Okay back to the carbon.



Another crack in the top tube on an aero bike.


Another top tube crack.


Interesting thing about this frame was that it was denied a warranty due to the other bike shop saying it was a paint crack despite a tone change when tapping on the cracked sections and the different multiple crack locations (we don't even reckon they talked to warranty about it). We hit up the warranty dept and found out that they had no stock of that frame at all which was bad for the customer. Good news was that the warranty dept offered to replace the frame with the top of the line frame in which the customer and her kids were over the moon about when they felt how light the bike had now become.


Carbon cage on a cassette. I think everyone here has had this happened to them about 3 or 4 times.


Another one.


And yet another.


And again....


And again...


Maybe they shouldn't put carbon fibre on the cassettes anymore......


Stem thingy.


Carbon braze on mount crapping itself (very, very, very common with the 2013-2015 BH ultralight series)


Whoops. That was a cracked rim. Here is the cracked braze on mounts.


Another crack under the bottom bracket


Here is the new shimano thru axle.


The rear triangle on a dualie.


Headset.


I've got tons more photos of carbonfibre products failing. I've seen Mavic carbonfibre spokes splitting. Lots more photos of cracked frames. Cracked carbon components. Cracked metal components. Cracked alloy components. God knows how many wheels I have sent back to shimano australia for warranty. I had one bike in for a cracked something which I can't remember. Had the warranty frame turn up and instantly saw something wasn't right with the frame. Put a wheel in it and it was touching the frame on an angle because the rear seat stays weren't aligned straight with the frame. Made even funnier with the inspection card tied to the seat stays saying that it passed. So I had to do a warranty on a warranty frame and then get a second frame sent for the customer. But all components have their use. Some people are very agressive on the bike. Others aren't. Some people crash. Others not so much. Some people abuse their bikes. Others watch for worn out components. Some riders know how to corner with minimal breaking on descents. Others drag the brakes while still wanting to go fast. Old mate gets lots of punctures on his 29er mtb wheels while his mate using the same wheels keeps breaking spokes because the tire sealant and water keeps mixing inside the rim to corrode the alloy nipples. Parts do fail. Some people get longer life out of components than others. Frames do crack. Be it alloy, ti or carbon. But most admittedly carbon has been the biggest source of cracks/failures in the past decade due to their design trade offs.

But as JasonC here will tell you all you can do with carbon frames is....

[jasonc]

I bought my frame for $600 and have done over 30,000kms on it. It still goes, for now. but i haven't ridden it since i got the boardman fitted (and this is a new frame, with warranty)

[CKinnard]

I bought a top of the line Schwinn tourer in 1983.
Used it intensively for 4 years, then sporadically for 20 more.
I eventually gave it away for nicks in 2011.
I doubt I could have replaced the groupset due to obsolescence.
I was sentimentally attached to that tourer because I had a lot of great times on it.
Nevertheless, it no doubt had some rust, and would have required a lot of hours and dollars to restore.
When it comes to tech, I think it doesn't pay to be sentimental...better to see the utilitarian value of something, and recycle it as required; just as you would cars or computer equipment.
The saying in the 80s for steel bikes was 'rust never sleeps'.
Nothing lasts forever.

[AUbicycles]

Thanks for sharing the gallery. My conclusion is that things can't break!

[Discodan]

Thanks for sharing, that's a very scary gallery which changes how I think about some exotic parts.

For the record I've got 40,000km plus on a 2013 TCR and it's never missed a beat. Likewise a carbon hardtail MTB that's had some horrific abuses done to it and barely a scratch on it

[g-boaf]

Thanks for sharing, that's a very scary gallery which changes how I think about some exotic parts.

For the record I've got 40,000km plus on a 2013 TCR and it's never missed a beat. Likewise a carbon hardtail MTB that's had some horrific abuses done to it and barely a scratch on it

That's a huge amount of kms.

[silentC]

I'm really astonished you don't know anyone who has had a CF frame failure. That's not my experience. The booming trade in CF repair shops (which doesn't account for warranty frames) suggests that it's more common than you think.

To be fair, I have a relatively small sample size here. I probably regularly ride with no more than 20 cyclists. It is noticed when people get new bikes and why. The bikes also tend to be in the mid price range around the 2-5k mark I suppose, although a few of the guys have spent much more and they tend to own multiple bikes and turn them over often. The only major frame issue I can think of that has occurred in the last say 3 or 4 years is one guy who got a stick through his front wheel and it snapped the down tube. Otherwise it has been things like front derailleur standoffs snapping off.

Yes I know you can't get figures, I was being a bit of a smart bum I'm just wondering whether the failures are a significant proportion of the sales, and whether other factors cause them to be over-represented in some circles. Maybe super-light bikes suffer more from this type of thing than your workhorse bikes. Metro bike retailers are going to see a lot of failures but they also sell a lot of bikes. I'll ask my LBS next time I see him how many failed frames he has seen. But he only sells one road bike a month if that.

My Merida has a lifetime frame warranty - covers the frame for my entire ownership of the bike. I'm expecting it to last at least until my next significant birthday!

[eeksll]

Hello You know what I like? Having a camera phone in a workshop

Thanks for posting the photos

[g-boaf]

Maybe super-light bikes suffer more from this type of thing than your workhorse bikes. Metro bike retailers are going to see a lot of failures but they also sell a lot of bikes. I'll ask my LBS next time I see him how many failed frames he has seen. But he only sells one road bike a month if that.

My Merida has a lifetime frame warranty - covers the frame for my entire ownership of the bike. I'm expecting it to last at least until my next significant birthday!

I have two very light bikes and both of them are pretty dependable. But then these days, a 6.3kg bike is no longer super light. Super light now is between 4kg and 5kg.

[RobertL]

That's the second time I've seen Luke post a photo of that red and white Malvern Star Oppy fork that's identical to mine. Stop scaring me like that!

[hamishm]

I know a number of very strong riders who use their bikes on trainers and none of them have problems.

Why would trainer use be a problem? At least you won't be crashing or hitting potholes.

[g-boaf]

I know a number of very strong riders who use their bikes on trainers and none of them have problems.

Why would trainer use be a problem? At least you won't be crashing or hitting potholes.

Maybe it isn't, but I don't use my bikes on a trainer. Don't like doing intervals at 200% with the bike clamped to a trainer. Maybe that's just me being cautious.