Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
- bychosis
- Posts: 7272
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
- Location: Lake Macquarie
Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby bychosis » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:37 pm
It was a few moments after it occurred that being a late model Volvo it may have been equipped with autonomous emergency braking (AEB) and the car stopped because it thought we were going to collide - would have if I we both had not braked suddenly. Is this the type of situation that the AEB would predict and cut in for? If so, it might be 'fun' riding across in front of cars fitted with this just to make everything fall off the passenger seat. In the future it might be quite possible to cross the road without looking and magically have the cars all stop why you do.
Anyone had experience with AEB or similar?
-
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:59 pm
If there was going to be a crash unless you stopped suddenly, then the AEB (or the driver) probably did the right thing, at least at first. Defensive driving and all that. But a truly smart braking system, like a truly smart driver, would then keep going once it realised you were stopping. So was it AEB? Possibly. Interesting.bychosis wrote:A few days ago I was riding the Fernleigh Track cycleway, nice to not deal with cars. Anyway, at one point the path crosses a road and has an median island with a rail to hang on to. There was a car coming from my left, around a bend and nothing coming from the right so I continued at a fair clip to the island ready to brake enough that the car could pass before I continued across the road. But the car slowed and then stopped and then allowed me to cross in front, contrary to the road markings. Unusual I thought, a tad annoying as I had nearly stopped at the island, but was able to remain clipped in and cross.
It was a few moments after it occurred that being a late model Volvo it may have been equipped with autonomous emergency braking (AEB) and the car stopped because it thought we were going to collide - would have if I we both had not braked suddenly. Is this the type of situation that the AEB would predict and cut in for?
Actually this has been predicted as a negative consequence of driverless cars - pedestrians will step in front of cars because they know they'll stop. But your example has made me realise there's a flaw in that reasoning: even if all cars are driverless, you might get hit by another bike!bychosis wrote:If so, it might be 'fun' riding across in front of cars fitted with this just to make everything fall off the passenger seat. In the future it might be quite possible to cross the road without looking and magically have the cars all stop why you do.
- g-boaf
- Posts: 21501
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby g-boaf » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:20 pm
Not myself, but here is a demonstration and explanation of how it works in various scenarios on a Mercedes S63 AMG (similar in E-Class and a few others):bychosis wrote:Anyone had experience with AEB or similar?
https://youtu.be/SHpBrjIJoMw?t=33m36s
It notices pedestrians, other road users and will begin to brake if it thinks a collision is possible, but will leave it up to the driver until the situation gets critical and then it will slam on the brakes.
I don't know a lot about Volvo, but a quick search brought up this:
https://support.volvocars.com/uk/cars/P ... e801ce49be
Edit: the above seems to be the Volvo system that it relevant. But it doesn't seem to handle crossing traffic.
Also: https://support.volvocars.com/en-CA/car ... e8008f3be6
But again, doesn't mention anything about crossing traffic. Maybe that's a Mercedes only at the moment.
-
- Posts: 9810
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby human909 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:49 pm
Potential collisions would be being detected left right and centre in normal road travel if the conduct of others wasn't accounted for. (aka them changing course or braking)
- Kev365428
- Moderator
- Posts: 2289
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:52 am
- Location: Ingleburn, NSW
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby Kev365428 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:22 pm
It leaves it until the last minute, give you an audible warning, then slams the brakes on.
In your scenario I'd say the driver was nervous and just decided to let you cross.
Kev.
- WyvernRH
- Posts: 3190
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:41 pm
- Location: Newcastle NSW
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby WyvernRH » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:13 pm
Richard
- bychosis
- Posts: 7272
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
- Location: Lake Macquarie
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby bychosis » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:44 pm
Think it’s Kalaroo Rd (near the redhead beach access).WyvernRH wrote:Yes, as a regular on the Fernleigh Track I reckon I know the junction you mean. Quite often of an early morning (my normal time) drivers will stop politely to let you pass thru, totally against the traffic rules (and often to the annoyance of a bogan behind them). Not to be counted on at all but when it happens I always acknowledge with a wave and a smile.
Richard
- duncan16v
- Posts: 407
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:09 am
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby duncan16v » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:12 am
-
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:41 am
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby diventare » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:48 am
To generate the "fun" you'd need to step in front of an oncoming car and hope that it had AEB. Darwinian.
- CXCommuter
- Posts: 1885
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:18 pm
- Location: Lane Cove NSW
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby CXCommuter » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:50 am
-
- Posts: 1703
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:08 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby RobertL » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:33 pm
All of a sudden, the Tesla starts braking and letting out it's warning beep that it is doing so. The occupants start wondering what is going on. Then the dash cam shows the car in front of the Tesla slamming into the car in front of it.
So the Tesla braking system had detected that the car two cars in front of it was braking and took evasive action while the Tesla driver and the driver of the car in the middle saw nothing.
- g-boaf
- Posts: 21501
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby g-boaf » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:02 pm
I think only relatively few cars have the ability to recognise crossing traffic /pedestrians on sidewalks or islands and be aware to take action.diventare wrote:My Suby Levorg has it. Relating to peds (or riders) on a traffic island, mine does not react, I would offer that it does not calculate trajectories and predict potential impact, it simply reacts to obstacles directly in the way of current travel (ie something stationary directly in front of the car).
To generate the "fun" you'd need to step in front of an oncoming car and hope that it had AEB. Darwinian.
- gorilla monsoon
- Posts: 3553
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:45 am
- Location: Lake Macquarie
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby gorilla monsoon » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:55 pm
I've had a great deal of experience with both AEB and the Fernleigh Track and if you are describing what I think you are decribing (location and situation) then no, AEB would not have stopped the car. AEB really ony works in direct line of sight and doesn't "look" to the sides.bychosis wrote:A few days ago I was riding the Fernleigh Track cycleway, nice to not deal with cars. Anyway, at one point the path crosses a road and has an median island with a rail to hang on to. There was a car coming from my left, around a bend and nothing coming from the right so I continued at a fair clip to the island ready to brake enough that the car could pass before I continued across the road. But the car slowed and then stopped and then allowed me to cross in front, contrary to the road markings. Unusual I thought, a tad annoying as I had nearly stopped at the island, but was able to remain clipped in and cross.
It was a few moments after it occurred that being a late model Volvo it may have been equipped with autonomous emergency braking (AEB) and the car stopped because it thought we were going to collide - would have if I we both had not braked suddenly. Is this the type of situation that the AEB would predict and cut in for? If so, it might be 'fun' riding across in front of cars fitted with this just to make everything fall off the passenger seat. In the future it might be quite possible to cross the road without looking and magically have the cars all stop why you do.
Anyone had experience with AEB or similar?
In other words, you would have needed to have been directly in front of the Volvo.
- Alex Simmons/RST
- Expert
- Posts: 4997
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm
- Contact:
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:17 pm
Whenever i get a vehicle to drive in a race I need to find out how to disable the tech because it can be quite dangerous in a race convoy. If ever we are presented with vehicles that can't disable the tech it will be interesting.
I'm noticing the more modern the vehicle, the worse the vision is for seeing where riders are.
- foo on patrol
- Posts: 9073
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:12 am
- Location: Sanstone Point QLD
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby foo on patrol » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:22 pm
This is the telling bit for me, as line of sight and peripheral vision is more important to me, than some smart braking system!Alex Simmons/RST wrote:As a driver in many bike races, this tech is a complete PITA. I've had it engage unexpectedly and nearly cause major incident in a bike race.
Whenever i get a vehicle to drive in a race I need to find out how to disable the tech because it can be quite dangerous in a race convoy. If ever we are presented with vehicles that can't disable the tech it will be interesting.
I'm noticing the more modern the vehicle, the worse the vision is for seeing where riders are.
Foo
Goal 6000km
-
- Posts: 572
- Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:13 pm
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby madmacca » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:02 pm
Particularly as Subaru are one of the early adopters on this tech, but also major sponsors of road racing in Australia.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:As a driver in many bike races, this tech is a complete PITA. I've had it engage unexpectedly and nearly cause major incident in a bike race.
Whenever i get a vehicle to drive in a race I need to find out how to disable the tech because it can be quite dangerous in a race convoy. If ever we are presented with vehicles that can't disable the tech it will be interesting.
I'm noticing the more modern the vehicle, the worse the vision is for seeing where riders are.
-
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:45 pm
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby BJL » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:33 pm
Problem is this technology is going to make drivers even more complacent and incompetent than they are now. We're at a point in human history where it seems that the primary purpose of technology is to make humans stupid. I can just imagine the technology trade shows,
'The smartest technology, for the dumbest people'
(I think I missed my calling. I should have been an advertising executive or something)
- Alex Simmons/RST
- Expert
- Posts: 4997
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm
- Contact:
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:03 pm
Subaru are obviously a sponsor of the TDU but they have ended their sponsorship of Cycling Australia and won't be seen in many bike races domestically.madmacca wrote:Particularly as Subaru are one of the early adopters on this tech, but also major sponsors of road racing in Australia.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:As a driver in many bike races, this tech is a complete PITA. I've had it engage unexpectedly and nearly cause major incident in a bike race.
Whenever i get a vehicle to drive in a race I need to find out how to disable the tech because it can be quite dangerous in a race convoy. If ever we are presented with vehicles that can't disable the tech it will be interesting.
I'm noticing the more modern the vehicle, the worse the vision is for seeing where riders are.
At the National champs we were driving new Honda Civics.
This gives you some idea of the sight lines:
The sight lines out of the Subarus wasn't too bad in bike races.
- Alex Simmons/RST
- Expert
- Posts: 4997
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm
- Contact:
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:58 am
Well, don't say I told you so, but...Alex Simmons/RST wrote:As a driver in many bike races, this tech is a complete PITA. I've had it engage unexpectedly and nearly cause major incident in a bike race.
Whenever i get a vehicle to drive in a race I need to find out how to disable the tech because it can be quite dangerous in a race convoy. If ever we are presented with vehicles that can't disable the tech it will be interesting.
I'm noticing the more modern the vehicle, the worse the vision is for seeing where riders are.
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/02/concuss ... habi-tour/
Following the end of the stage, RCS Sport confirmed that the accident was caused by the automatics of the Mercedes E300 EMC. The cars are fitted with sensors and the proximity of the riders apparently triggered the feature, causing the crash.
“They were nearby the car, and the car has those sensors that caused it to brake. And it braked,” course director Stefano Allocchio said after the stage, according to Cycling Weekly. “Unfortunately, it’s one of these things. Tonight we will talk to a mechanics to make sure they are deactivated. We don’t to risk this happening again.”
He said that the race organisers will visit Cavendish and his team to discuss the incident.
At this year’s Santos Tour Down Under drivers were warned to turn off the auto-brake feature. Race organizers added written warnings inside the cabins of many of the race vehicles in order to underline the point. Unfortunately, on this occasion that appears not to have been done and Cavendish lost out as a result.
- bychosis
- Posts: 7272
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
- Location: Lake Macquarie
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby bychosis » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:35 am
- find_bruce
- Moderator
- Posts: 10615
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby find_bruce » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:39 am
-
- Posts: 763
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:31 pm
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby hamishm » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:01 am
I agree. Maybe the riders had started to come around it and it braked when it was too close to them?find_bruce wrote:It would seem that the car braked when riders got too close behind it. I fail to see how this is ever a safe or sensible thing to do.
- biker jk
- Posts: 7012
- Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:18 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby biker jk » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:46 am
The braking occurred before any riders had started to come around the car and certainly before any were in front of the car. Strange.hamishm wrote:I agree. Maybe the riders had started to come around it and it braked when it was too close to them?find_bruce wrote:It would seem that the car braked when riders got too close behind it. I fail to see how this is ever a safe or sensible thing to do.
- Alex Simmons/RST
- Expert
- Posts: 4997
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm
- Contact:
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:31 am
By the riders or the car?find_bruce wrote:It would seem that the car braked when riders got too close behind it. I fail to see how this is ever a safe or sensible thing to do.
It's the neutral zone, riders are always right up behind and often either side of the Race Director's car in that zone as it maintains a fairly pedestrian and steady pace.
- find_bruce
- Moderator
- Posts: 10615
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Has anyone had experience with Autonomous emergency braking?
Postby find_bruce » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:33 pm
Sorry I should have been clearer - I meant its not a safe or sensible thing to program a car to autonomously brake if it is traveling forward & something is too close behind.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:By the riders or the car?find_bruce wrote:It would seem that the car braked when riders got too close behind it. I fail to see how this is ever a safe or sensible thing to do.
It's the neutral zone, riders are always right up behind and often either side of the Race Director's car in that zone as it maintains a fairly pedestrian and steady pace.
Return to “General Cycling Discussion”
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.