Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

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warthog1
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Re: Jan Hiene's 12 Myths in Cycling.

Postby warthog1 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:36 pm

g-boaf wrote:
warthog1 wrote:
biker jk wrote:
Admittedly, at average speeds above 35kmh, wheel aerodynamics become more important than tyre rolling resistance, so a narrower tyre might be faster, especially if the wider tyre exceeds the width of your rim.


Agree.
Either way, the difference is stuff all.
Ride what you like or what fits your bike.
It isn't about to turn any of us into a more competitive rider.


I didn't find a lot of difference at all between the 25mm and 23mm Continental GP4000S II tyres, they seemed about the same. But having switched over just by chance to the Specialized S-Works Turbo 26C tyres. Second ride on them today, they feel a lot more grippy through corners and they seem to roll well. I was sitting on a 35km/h average tonight (rolling hills and some gusty headwinds at times). Over a very poorly surfaced section of road (really coarse surface) they seemed a little bit more comfortable than 23mm Continental, but not massively so.

They are indeed pretty nice tyres.


I don't race anymore and I'm old. I cant really pick any difference.

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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby fat and old » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:23 pm

I never raced, and I’m fat and old.....but I sure can tell the diff between Corsa 25’s and GP 25’s. In comfort, nothing else :lol:

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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:38 pm

I'm going to say that the best tyre size is the size that your aero rims are optimised for
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby warthog1 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:33 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I'm going to say that the best tyre size is the size that your aero rims are optimised for


You would be correct imo

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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:46 am

There is more to it that size alone. Shape and texture elements are also a factor.

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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:20 pm

And if you dont use aero rims and ride an average over 30kmhr, wide hi quality tyres every time because for the most of us aero means squat.
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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby uart » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:46 pm

Apparently Keith Bontrager has already slammed the myth that wider tyres are always wider. I've got a Bontrager 32c tyre here that is narrower than my 28c gatorskins. ;) :P

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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby Jmuzz » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:32 pm

GCN on YouTube has a good segment on the topic which covered most of the issues being discussed.

Pros aren't running wide tyres because:
Rolling resistance is only part of it, wider is heavier and worse aero.
Rims have to be wider too, and many forks can't fit wide tyres, even at pro level it's big money obstacle to upgrade their whole truck of spares even if they wanted to (there are pros still on 3 year old bikes).
Current pro level rim brakes can't fit the wider tyre and rim, so it's not viable until brakes support it, or more realistically disk becomes standard.
Not much of a field in rims, tyres, tubes available. None really at pro spec level.

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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby Thoglette » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:26 pm

Jmuzz wrote:Pros aren't running wide tyres because:

All the points you make are pertinent. Nothing changes overnight.

But compared to a decade or so ago, the pros are running wider tyres. My old '90s "race bike" had 19mm tyres, which was not unusual at the time. And I've only just retired the last of the 21mm (tubular) tyres. Today, in the peleton 25mm is the new 23 and there's now major manufacturers starting to make 28 and 30mm gear (e.g. Zipp and Challenge)

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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby g-boaf » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:17 pm

Jmuzz wrote:GCN on YouTube has a good segment on the topic which covered most of the issues being discussed.

Pros aren't running wide tyres because:
Rolling resistance is only part of it, wider is heavier and worse aero.
Rims have to be wider too, and many forks can't fit wide tyres, even at pro level it's big money obstacle to upgrade their whole truck of spares even if they wanted to (there are pros still on 3 year old bikes).
Current pro level rim brakes can't fit the wider tyre and rim, so it's not viable until brakes support it, or more realistically disk becomes standard.
Not much of a field in rims, tyres, tubes available. None really at pro spec level.


How much wider are we talking? I'm using SRAM Red Aerolink brakes with 26C tyres. How much wider do you really need to go? Even 26C is pretty nice for comfort and the grip from these tyres (S-Works Turbo) is pretty fantastic. I think 28mm would have worked okay too, but don't need it.

Yes, the wider tyres are heavier, but not greatly so. These ones I won't compare to my old 23mm tyres as they are a different type completely.

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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby hamishm » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:43 pm

I'm running 28mm GP4000sII on 15mm inside width Mavic Open Pro with Ultegra 6700 rim brakes. The tyres are really hard to get through the brakes when inflated so I just inflate them after installing the wheels. Works fine. Fortunately I don't have to remove the wheel to fit the bike in the car.

Would be a bit of a pain to make a quick wheel change in a race. But then as noted above most of us aren't racing and don't need to have race tech.

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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:55 am

hamishm wrote:I'm running 28mm GP4000sII on 15mm inside width Mavic Open Pro with Ultegra 6700 rim brakes. The tyres are really hard to get through the brakes when inflated so I just inflate them after installing the wheels. Works fine. Fortunately I don't have to remove the wheel to fit the bike in the car.

Would be a bit of a pain to make a quick wheel change in a race. But then as noted above most of us aren't racing and don't need to have race tech.

I'm not surprised as I find the Contis are actually ~10% wider than their stated width.

IOW the 28s are more like 31mm, the 25s are more like 28mm. It will depend a bit on rim and inflation pressure but overall they are typically wider than what's printed on the box.

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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby hamishm » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:33 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:IOW the 28s are more like 31mm, the 25s are more like 28mm.

Apparently it's just a GP4000sII thing - the Four Seasons 28mm are really 28mm or even less..

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Re: Jan Heine's 12 Myths in Cycling: #1 Wider tyres are slower

Postby Jmuzz » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:19 am

g-boaf wrote:How much wider are we talking?


28 to mid 30s.
Apparently the contact patch only works properly on a wide rim tyre, ie tyre has a U profile not a curved in C profile, rim has to be same width as tyre to get the proper tyre flex profile and correct aero.

So they say anyway.

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