NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

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Thoglette
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NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby Thoglette » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:53 pm

NSW's horror summer road toll prompts crackdown on phone use behind wheel

Sarah Gerathy, ABC wrote:Cameras will be used to catch people who talk or text on their phones while driving in New South Wales as part of a new package of measures aimed at reducing the road toll after a summer of carnage.

But the Government has baulked at proposals to use point-to-point cameras which target trucks but not cars, to catch more speeding drivers, despite 392 people being killed on NSW roads in 2017.

Announcing the Government's road safety plan, Premier Gladys Berejiklian said the measures would address speeding, drug and drink driving, truck and driver distraction....

Other measures announced in the package include:

* All mid-range drink-driving offenders must have breath-testing devices fitted to cars which require negative samples before the ignition starts
* The Government is spending $125 million on a program to improve safety on country roads; installing safety barriers, rumble strips and upgrading roads around high risk curves
* Police will be given the power to issue on-the-spot fines and licence suspensions for low-range drink-driving offences, which means most drivers will not have to front court
* Eleven extra heavy vehicle point-to-point speed cameras will be rolled out to catch speeding trucks
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby find_bruce » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:44 pm

Interesting, not just because they are starting to get serious about mobile phone abuse, but for 2 lesser points
  1. The privacy card that the Roads Minister wanted to play in January appears to be dead
  2. Bernard Carlon's malicious influence may be waning - it seems his proposal to slap drink drivers with a lettuce leaf is seen for the stupidity it is.

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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby g-boaf » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:58 pm

find_bruce wrote:Interesting, not just because they are starting to get serious about mobile phone abuse, but for 2 lesser points
  1. The privacy card that the Roads Minister wanted to play in January appears to be dead
  2. Bernard Carlon's malicious influence may be waning - it seems his proposal to slap drink drivers with a lettuce leaf is seen for the stupidity it is.


Hmm, you know him as well? I'd have thought he might have given it a go to encourage "sustainable" methods of transport (ie, active transport) given his background in environment.

This is a good move by the government to get serious on dangerous, inattentive driving. Point to point speed measurements too.

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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby bychosis » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:37 pm

‘Tough new laws to increase safety on the roads’. They changed the drink driving penalties a bit and think they might try to arch people using phones.

What a load of twaddle.
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby Ivanerrol » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:54 pm

What is effective.
Police on motorcycles and bicycles riding between cars in stopped heavy peak hour traffic observing the motorists from a few metres away. Seems to work fine in Melbourne.
Drivers caught red handed.
Lots of fines handed out.
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby g-boaf » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:06 pm

Ivanerrol wrote:What is effective.
Police on motorcycles and bicycles riding between cars in stopped heavy peak hour traffic observing the motorists from a few metres away. Seems to work fine in Melbourne.
Drivers caught red handed.
Lots of fines handed out.


And in addition to the general Police on bikes idea, Police on road bikes, looking like a typical road bike rider. Do it for long enough and drivers will become very careful around bicycle riders.

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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby JohnJoyner » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:33 am

g-boaf wrote:
Ivanerrol wrote:What is effective.
Police on motorcycles and bicycles riding between cars in stopped heavy peak hour traffic observing the motorists from a few metres away. Seems to work fine in Melbourne.
Drivers caught red handed.
Lots of fines handed out.


And in addition to the general Police on bikes idea, Police on road bikes, looking like a typical road bike rider. Do it for long enough and drivers will become very careful around bicycle riders.


I like that idea g-boaf. Police on road bikes.
But yes, mobile use whilst driving is absolutely shocking. The amount of cars I see wandering over the lane, sitting still when the lights are green, makes me worry even more when out riding my bike. I support anything that will be done to get that message through.
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby trailgumby » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:19 pm

All good that they're gong to use cameras to ping mobile phone users but the elephant in the room is average speed cameras.

They wussed out on implementing that because their National Party partners got all jittery that it would be unpopular with voters, despite speed-related deaths on country roads being responsible for much of the road toll increase. Too afraid to tell their constituents to get real and HTFU.

One of my FB followers made a very astute observation:
Geter Pibson wrote:It's interesting that motorists point to high speed limits on certain roads in Europe as an attempt to validate and justify speeding, yet when cyclists point to bicycle infrastructure in European locations, not mention the enormously better attitude of people/car drivers, the reponse is ...'this isn't Europe, and it can't be turned into a Europe like system...'

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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby brumby33 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:28 pm

All the police have to do is ride around on my bus all day......guaranteed to give them writers cramp from all those fines....got a birdseye view from where i sit at intersections watching them text away with the phone between their legs so no-one will see...wanna bet!! :lol:
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby bychosis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:34 pm

brumby33 wrote:All the police have to do is ride around on my bus all day......guaranteed to give them writers cramp from all those fines....got a birdseye view from where i sit at intersections watching them text away with the phone between their legs so no-one will see...wanna bet!! :lol:

They wouldn't have a budget big enough for the bus fares though.
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby Aushiker » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:35 pm

trailgumby wrote:They wussed out on implementing that because their National Party partners got all jittery that it would be unpopular with voters, despite speed-related deaths on country roads being responsible for much of the road toll increase.


We have them or at least signage for one here in the West. Don't know how effective it has been or the number of infringement notices issued.
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby brumby33 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:58 pm

bychosis wrote:
brumby33 wrote:All the police have to do is ride around on my bus all day......guaranteed to give them writers cramp from all those fines....got a birdseye view from where i sit at intersections watching them text away with the phone between their legs so no-one will see...wanna bet!! :lol:

They wouldn't have a budget big enough for the bus fares though.


Police ride for free....especially on State Government buses (until they get privatised :| )
And they'd keep idiot passengers and fare evaders quite too :mrgreen:
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby OnTrackZeD » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:44 pm

I wish it was implemented nation wide, its a major problem even when I'm driving and I don't like to think about it when riding.

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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby Hergest » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:44 pm

The problem with speed cameras whether point to point average or fixed is that it makes the road safety argument appear to be nothing more than speed kills. There's nothing wrong with speed as such, it's inappropriate speeding and lack of care when driving that is the problem. I have no issue with someone driving passed me on a country lane giving me a full lane's room when overtaking at 120 km/h but I have a real issue with someone on their phone, not paying attention or just being a poor driver trying to overtake me at 40 km/h on a city or country road.

Real effort and political will needs to be taken in regard to long bans for drink driving and careless driving with methods of preventing offenders from driving while banned. By putting up more speed cameras politicians can claim to be doing something when it's the easiest thing in the world to do.

I would hazard a guess that the majority of cyclists killed by motorists were done so by careless driving rather than speed alone. The real problem as pretty much anyone can see when driving or cycling a great deal is mobile phone use, not speed.
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby trailgumby » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:29 pm

The druggie who deliberately drove at me and carried me on his bonnet for about 25m in a road rage incident last Anzac Day anfter intentionally sideswiping my then-new Subaru successfully appealed his 24 month driving suspension and had it reduced to 12 months on Monday.

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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby bychosis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:57 pm

^ that’s a shocker.

I did see that hey are planning in installing alcohol interlocks on drivers for mid range offences. That’s a good thing, wouldn’t hurt to roll it out for more offences too.
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby JPB » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:41 pm

Ivanerrol wrote:What is effective.
Police on motorcycles and bicycles riding between cars in stopped heavy peak hour traffic observing the motorists from a few metres away. Seems to work fine in Melbourne.
Drivers caught red handed.
Lots of fines handed out.


I see this happen in Sydney too. Always fun as a spectator.
And one of the ladies at work had a whinge this morning. She was sitting at the lights minding her own business and texting away, with a cop sitting in the front yard of an adjacent block of units watching. First thing she knew of this was when he tapped on her window and asked her to pull into the driveway. Great stuff, should be more of it.

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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:11 pm

brumby33 wrote:All the police have to do is ride around on my bus all day......guaranteed to give them writers cramp from all those fines....got a birdseye view from where i sit at intersections watching them text away with the phone between their legs so no-one will see...wanna bet!! :lol:


They should install camera's on the bus's which automatically transfer the video to a central authority where about 6 feeds are watched by someone. When that someone spots texting, they capture the relevant video, fill in an electronic document and forward it to the Police officer to assess and fine. The costs of this system would soon be recovered
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby brumby33 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:36 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
brumby33 wrote:All the police have to do is ride around on my bus all day......guaranteed to give them writers cramp from all those fines....got a birdseye view from where i sit at intersections watching them text away with the phone between their legs so no-one will see...wanna bet!! :lol:


They should install camera's on the bus's which automatically transfer the video to a central authority where about 6 feeds are watched by someone. When that someone spots texting, they capture the relevant video, fill in an electronic document and forward it to the Police officer to assess and fine. The costs of this system would soon be recovered


Haha yeah....with over 4,000 Government buses plus the privates operating in Sydney alone..I think monitoring would be a nightmare. We can't even get anyone fined for doing something stupid in front of us let alone mobile phone fines...We can't even get drivers fined for parking in bus stops :x
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby duncanm » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:12 pm

trailgumby wrote:All good that they're gong to use cameras to ping mobile phone users but the elephant in the room is average speed cameras.

They wussed out on implementing that because their National Party partners got all jittery that it would be unpopular with voters


yeh, well. I remember when they brought in average speed cameras for trucks in NSW, and they said, categorically, that they would *never* use them for the general motorist.

Regardless, most of these average speed cameras (if not all) are on major routes. The one's on the dual carriageways won't save any lives, and they certainly won't address the lone driver on a country road at night deaths.


As for mobile phones -- how about the police get out and prosecute a few people? As if on cue, I was riding the M2 breakdown lane on Tuesday afternoon in peak hour, slowly passing heavy traffic. The car just in front started to drift into the breakdown lane as I passed. Looking across, the numbnuts was staring into his lap playing with his phone. He got an earful through the passenger window.

Without active policing, I'm afraid I cynically view technology as just an easy cop out to raise revenue and be seen to be doing something.

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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby bychosis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:32 pm

duncanm wrote:Without active policing, I'm afraid I cynically view technology as just an easy cop out to raise revenue and be seen to be doing something.

I tend to agree, technology doesn’t have the same effect as a copper tapping on the window, it delays the punishment and loses the connection. The technology does make it very cost effective to monitor lots of places and becomes a deterrent in a wider area. You will be caught and fined as opposed to the officer having discression.
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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby duncanm » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:40 pm

bychosis wrote:
duncanm wrote:Without active policing, I'm afraid I cynically view technology as just an easy cop out to raise revenue and be seen to be doing something.

I tend to agree, technology doesn’t have the same effect as a copper tapping on the window, it delays the punishment and loses the connection. The technology does make it very cost effective to monitor lots of places and becomes a deterrent in a wider area. You will be caught and fined as opposed to the officer having discression.


The lack of immediacy is a very important point.

I could drive thousands of kilometres in Australia, triggering speed cameras left right and centre, and not have any repercussions for a month or two while the paperwork came through.

If one copper pulled me over at the start of my trip and gave me a warning, I'd more than likely not be speeding for that distance.


I also have a real problem with the indiscretion of things like roadside mobile cameras. I think I passed one on the Hume near Goulburn a couple of weeks back at about 10pm. I don't know if it was there (I didn't notice the van) but I glimpsed the little speed-camera sign by the roadside as I accelerated past another car. I was doing over 110, because I had been creeping slowly up on him at the speed limit, and wanted to get past him swiftly. I don't think driving alongside another lone vehicle late at night for tens of seconds is a safe thing to do.

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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby find_bruce » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:01 am

duncanm wrote:The lack of immediacy is a very important point.

I could drive thousands of kilometres in Australia, triggering speed cameras left right and centre, and not have any repercussions for a month or two while the paperwork came through.

If one copper pulled me over at the start of my trip and gave me a warning, I'd more than likely not be speeding for that distance.

That's one theory. The flip side is the argument is that you have seen the cop & there won't be another for ages and so you are safe to speed. I doubt whether either theory is correct. There are 3 signs before every fixed speed camera in NSW, yet people continue to pay millions in fines for ignoring them.

Criminology studies emphasise that people tend to over-estimate the chance of being caught when those chances are uncertain. You may recall RBT ads along the lines that you never know when you're going to get caught.
duncanm wrote:I also have a real problem with the indiscretion of things like roadside mobile cameras. I think I passed one on the Hume near Goulburn a couple of weeks back at about 10pm. I don't know if it was there (I didn't notice the van) but I glimpsed the little speed-camera sign by the roadside as I accelerated past another car. I was doing over 110, because I had been creeping slowly up on him at the speed limit, and wanted to get past him swiftly. I don't think driving alongside another lone vehicle late at night for tens of seconds is a safe thing to do.

Sounds like you are a supporter of average speed camera - they don't detect momentary speed, but rather that the vehicle has been speeding for a significant period of time, 20, 30 or more km.

Thanks for giving an excellent example of MGIF. The Hume near Goulburn is a dual carriageway. If you were creeping slowly up on the vehicle & it would take tens of seconds to pass, the difference in speed is 1 or 2 kmh. At 110kmh it takes 1 minute and 5 seconds to cover 2 km. So after an hour of driving you would been all of 1 minute that you must get in front of. I fail to see what is unsafe in staying in the right hand lane for tens of seconds, but if it was, there is no real reason not to sit behind the ever so slightly slower vehicle.

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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby duncanm » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:13 pm

find_bruce wrote:Thanks for giving an excellent example of MGIF. The Hume near Goulburn is a dual carriageway. If you were creeping slowly up on the vehicle & it would take tens of seconds to pass, the difference in speed is 1 or 2 kmh. At 110kmh it takes 1 minute and 5 seconds to cover 2 km. So after an hour of driving you would been all of 1 minute that you must get in front of. I fail to see what is unsafe in staying in the right hand lane for tens of seconds, but if it was, there is no real reason not to sit behind the ever so slightly slower vehicle.


car length ~ 5m
safe distance in front and behind - 3 seconds (at least). 3s (AT) 110km/h = 90m
so safe passing window from lane change to lane change is at least 200m.
200m (AT) 2km/h = 6 minutes.

a more reasonable 30s passing time is +24km/h

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Re: NSW to introduce camera to catch drivers using mobiles

Postby Jmuzz » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Overcomplicated.
Just get unmarked older model normal cars (not the obvious V8 Commodore which are 90% cop) and motorbikes on the road and catch all the offenders.
Plain clothes cyclists would be effective in high density too.

Real cops (or even civilians, if using camera evidence) are better than dumb robot cameras. A real person can apply judgement on whether it was a justified action (eg getting past a B-Double).
Last edited by Jmuzz on Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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