1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

march83
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby march83 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:33 am

I think if you were regularly climbing for an hour then yeah you would definitely want tight spacing - that's why we've all progressed from being 10 speed heroes to having 22 separate gearing options.

That said, while my commute is primarily flat I do have a ~10minute climb at about 6% and I don't have any issues with the gaps on my 11-42
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby cyclotaur » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:35 am

I have a bike now with 48/32 chainrings and also an older CX bike with 46/34. I put the 34 ring on the CX to replace the 36, mainly for big climbing rides. I have ridden with 11-32 cassettes for the last 2+ years on all bikes. I've managed some big climbs on 34-28 in recent years but I'm not getting any younger....

I find when riding the CX in particular I spend a lot more time in the 'big' (46) ring than I ever did with 50/34 or 53/39 (long time ago) on my road bikes.

I would say that if I went to a 46, 44 or 42 1x and a slightly bigger rear cog, say 36, I could probably get by OK for everything but the light loaded touring I do a few times per year, or for really big long climbs. If I went to 11-42 then that would even give me a 'bailout' granny gear for the big climbs where I just run out of energy. Intriguing stuff...

On the cost issue, I guess if Shimano ever seriously enter the road 1X market prices will fall.
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby RonK » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:03 pm

MichaelB wrote:We have gotten so used to tight ratio's and choices between compact, mid-compact and std, that we 'think' we need it that close. Some like it, some NEED it, and some don't really care, they'll cope with what they have.

Exactly, we think we need close ratios, when in fact we only need them in the higher gears.

I have been riding with wide range cassettes on my touring bikes for years. At the lower end of the cassette, wider gaps are a good thing - when the road goes up I want a low ratio fast, without having to make multiple shifts under load. At the higher end I still have enough close ratios for comfortable cruising.

For my current build I found a triple crank set unnecessary - I'm getting enough range out of a 2x10. I can easily foresee a 1x11 or 1x12 drive train having a quite adequate range for my next bike.
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby RonK » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:04 pm

Just like disc brakes, few would buy or pay for a conversion just to get 1x. But if you are buying a new bike, then for some 1x may become a real consideration.
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby eeksll » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:09 pm

cyclotaur wrote:I have a bike now with 48/32 chainrings ....


what brand/setup is that? I am thinking on my next bike or if I ever buy a new crank e.g powermeter I would go the sub-compact. I know praxis works makes this ratio.

i would allow me to use the more widely available 11-XX 11 speed cassettes vs having to buy the "special" 12-29 that I currently use.

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby warthog1 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:41 pm

I still fail to see the point.
I am an ageing never was.
11s 32-11 on the back and mid-compact 52-36 on the front.
Put it in the small ring for long climbs otherwise leave it in the big ring.
Why pay more money to have bigger gaps :?

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby bychosis » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:56 pm

warthog1 wrote:I still fail to see the point.
I am an ageing never was.
11s 32-11 on the back and mid-compact 52-36 on the front.
Put it in the small ring for long climbs otherwise leave it in the big ring.
Why pay more money to have bigger gaps :?

Maybe you want one of these?
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby cyclotaur » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:46 pm

eeksll wrote:
cyclotaur wrote:I have a bike now with 48/32 chainrings ....

what brand/setup is that? I am thinking on my next bike or if I ever buy a new crank e.g powermeter I would go the sub-compact. I know praxis works makes this ratio.

i would allow me to use the more widely available 11-XX 11 speed cassettes vs having to buy the "special" 12-29 that I currently use.

Praxis Alba 48/32 cranks on a 2018 Specialized Diverge E5 (Aluminium frame). With 11-32 on the rear, it's the lowest gearing I've ever had, but the bike is 10+ kgs in standard form, so pretty hefty.

I'm off on a short tour soon so the 1:1 gear will come in handy on a few days of big climbs. :wink:
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby MichaelB » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:07 pm

cyclotaur wrote: ...
On the cost issue, I guess if Shimano ever seriously enter the road 1X market prices will fall.


I wonder when (or if they will) do that. Reality is that all it takes is a LH specific shifter. All their other stuff is there ....

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby eeksll » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:23 pm

cyclotaur wrote:
eeksll wrote:
cyclotaur wrote:I have a bike now with 48/32 chainrings ....

what brand/setup is that? I am thinking on my next bike or if I ever buy a new crank e.g powermeter I would go the sub-compact. I know praxis works makes this ratio.

i would allow me to use the more widely available 11-XX 11 speed cassettes vs having to buy the "special" 12-29 that I currently use.

Praxis Alba 48/32 cranks on a 2018 Specialized Diverge E5 (Aluminium frame). With 11-32 on the rear, it's the lowest gearing I've ever had, but the bike is 10+ kgs in standard form, so pretty hefty.

I'm off on a short tour soon so the 1:1 gear will come in handy on a few days of big climbs. :wink:


looks like I need to re-assess, seems chainrings only work on the specific crank too. URL

8/32 110BCD VIP NOTE: This is a custom ring set that can only be installed on our new Praxis Works branded 110BCD road cranks. This specific set includes custom ring bolts required for installation. This set will not install on prior generation “TURN” road cranks or other brand cranks

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:07 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
uart wrote:While I don't really see any compelling reason for most people to "upgrade" to a 1x setup, I do see it as something of a logical progression. With the ever increasing number of gears on the rear cassette and compact chainrings - triple chainrings have become all but redundant for touring and hybrid bikes. I suppose it's just a natural progression from this for double chainring setups to eventually become redundant for commuter and sportive riders.

You make an excellent point uart.
If manufacturers can get another couple of cogs on the back (say 13 speed) then front rings will be redundant.


Spoked wheels are dished about as far as they can go, so ignoring disc wheels, to get more cogs on the back requires either thinner yet again chains and cogs or a new frame width. What's the width of a tandem frame?

I'm guessing that the only place to get the cogs closer together is to reduce the width of the rollers about 9% to get a 12th cog and about a further 8% to get a 13th cog, with corresponding reductions in . To me that's crazy but if crazy sells then crazy will be introduced.

Perhaps someone will come out with cogs that slide side wise allowing the unused cogs to stack with no spacing
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby RonK » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:31 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Spoked wheels are dished about as far as they can go, so ignoring disc wheels, to get more cogs on the back requires either thinner yet again chains and cogs or a new frame width.

Wider frame spacings are already used off-road. It's just a matter of time before they migrate to road bikes.
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby Duck! » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:36 pm

The wider frame spacings appearing on MTBs are more about fitting in fatter tyres than anything else.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby warthog1 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:42 pm

RonK wrote:Wider frame spacings are already used off-road. It's just a matter of time before they migrate to road bikes.


Once people have their new disc braked bikes the industry will then decide it is time to go 12s. New frames and wheels with wider spacing will be required ;)

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:57 am

SRAM Eagle 12 speed fits fine on a standard XD driver freehub. The 12th sprocket sits over the spokes due to it's size.
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby bychosis » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:19 am

mikesbytes wrote:
Derny Driver wrote:
uart wrote:While I don't really see any compelling reason for most people to "upgrade" to a 1x setup, I do see it as something of a logical progression. With the ever increasing number of gears on the rear cassette and compact chainrings - triple chainrings have become all but redundant for touring and hybrid bikes. I suppose it's just a natural progression from this for double chainring setups to eventually become redundant for commuter and sportive riders.

...If manufacturers can get another couple of cogs on the back (say 13 speed) then front rings will be redundant.

...I'm guessing that the only place to get the cogs closer together is to reduce the width of the rollers about 9% to get a 12th cog and about a further 8% to get a 13th cog, with corresponding reductions in . To me that's crazy but if crazy sells then crazy will be introduced...

I wonder how many would be opposed to 13speed - due to the number. might have to skip to 14speed :lol:
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby P!N20 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:40 am

^ 12 + 1 speed.

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby bychosis » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:51 am

P!N20 wrote:^ 12 + 1 speed.

or to borrow an MTB term: 12-boost.
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby Duck! » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:21 am

Just don't tell them about the 13T sprocket that's in just about every cassette..... :wink:
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby trailgumby » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:07 pm

Eventually someone will claim that we all have to move to 13-speed cranks and single-speed hubs because, you know, unsprung mass, and then the designed obsolescence will start all over again.

$400+ for a cassette? How is that an "improvement"? Bugger that.

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby silentC » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:43 pm

From the sublime to the ridiculous!

I dunno, I guess it would depend on the type of riding you do. I rarely use my small chain ring and when I do I really just need a couple of gears, one for cruising up a hill and one for bailing out. Most of the rest of my gear selection is at the top end. I probably have a tendency to adjust my cadence rather than gearing, which I think comes from riding a 7 speed downtube shift up until 2 years ago.

So maybe losing the second chain ring would not be an issue for me and I could just have a dinner plate at the back for when I blow up on a climb. A bit like what I had on the 7 speed without the chain ring shift and the overlaps.
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby bychosis » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:46 pm

trailgumby wrote:Eventually someone will claim that we all have to move to 13-speed cranks and single-speed hubs because, you know, unsprung mass, and then the designed obsolescence will start all over again.


Pinion gearbox?
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:39 pm

bychosis wrote:
trailgumby wrote:Eventually someone will claim that we all have to move to 13-speed cranks and single-speed hubs because, you know, unsprung mass, and then the designed obsolescence will start all over again.


Pinion gearbox?


Built into the frame around the bottom bracket resulting in a single cog at the crank and a single cog at the wheel :wink:
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby RonK » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:53 pm

trailgumby wrote:$400+ for a cassette? How is that an "improvement"? Bugger that.

Price of cassette and single crankset, minus price of double crankset, minus price of front derailleur, minus price of cabling, minus price of front shifter - many would see that as an improvement.
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby bychosis » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:10 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
bychosis wrote:
trailgumby wrote:Eventually someone will claim that we all have to move to 13-speed cranks and single-speed hubs because, you know, unsprung mass, and then the designed obsolescence will start all over again.


Pinion gearbox?


Built into the frame around the bottom bracket resulting in a single cog at the crank and a single cog at the wheel :wink:


zackly. Effectively it is a multispeed crank and you can chuck in a silent, 'no maintenance' belt drive too.
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