1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

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hamishm
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby hamishm » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:08 am

MichaelB wrote:But presume it still swivels but nothing happens ?

Is there a way to fix the lever solid, so it only brakes ?

Get the di2 hydraulic lever?

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MichaelB
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby MichaelB » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:22 am

2wheels_mond wrote:
Hard to find, but it does exist - part number ST-S705L.

It's the left shifter of the 1x11 Shimano Alfine hub gearing kit (for rim brakes). Same design as 1st gen 11 speed Shimano levers. None for disc, so far as I can tell.


Looks like a potential option. Would just need to swap over the guts. Price is good. Around the Euro 30 mark, so even if it doesn't quite work, it's worth a shot.


hamishm wrote:
Get the di2 hydraulic lever?


Another good suggestion, albeit a bit more exxy, but at least it solves the disc part of it.
Thanks guys

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby Duck! » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:23 pm

As suggested above, at present Shimano do not produce a non-shifting hydraulic brake lever for drop bars. If you really wanted to disable the shifter mechanism of a dual control lever you could pour some glue into the shifter guts....
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby eeksll » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:47 pm

the shifting mechanism in the lever has a spring in it. It doesn't go all floppy with the cable removed. I have felt no difference between having a cable and not having a cable.

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RonK
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby RonK » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:04 pm

Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

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Mulger bill
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:04 pm

MichaelB wrote:But presume it still swivels but nothing happens ?

Is there a way to fix the lever solid, so it only brakes ?


Any way you can leave a few cms of inner cable poking out the lever body and securing it under the clamp?
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Lukeyboy
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby Lukeyboy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:32 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Lukeyboy wrote:Hahahaha. Bunch of whine bags. Go ride a track bike :)


Agreed, off to the Tourmalet for you with your track bike. :wink: They are good fun to ride.

Actually, on that note, a guy did ride Haute Route Dolomites last year on a single-speed bike. :shock: He got a lot of publicity.

Some of the climbs he encountered: Passo Pennes, Rennon Plateau, Lazfons, Brixen-Plancios (17km at 7%), Passo delle Erbe, Passo Gardena, Passo Sella, Passo san Pellegrino, Passo Valles, Passo Lavaze, Passo Costalunga, Passo Fedaia, Tiser, San Boldo

It would have been fun on the single speed up Passo delle Erbe, that was pretty long and steep in places, Lavaze was pretty bad near the top as well.

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Doesn't go too bad up the Goat Track on Mt Nebo too. I've got some balls but not enough to ride a track bike down nebo :P :P

MichaelB wrote:But doesn’t the 3T 9-32 cassette need a XD driver ?

The cost of that is beyond my wallet, but then again, it’s not even available

Yes you will need a XD driver. Easy peasy if you run DT 240/350 star ratchet hubs.

Mulger bill wrote:
MichaelB wrote:But presume it still swivels but nothing happens ?

Is there a way to fix the lever solid, so it only brakes ?


Any way you can leave a few cms of inner cable poking out the lever body and securing it under the clamp?

I've worked on plenty of bikes like that.
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Image
Image
Actually..... maybe thats not exactly what you had in mind...... Well, at least it isn't carbon fibre. Because you know how much that stuff frays :P

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby AndrewCowley » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:40 pm

Well I am converting my 50-34 commute bike to 53-39 in a bid to achieve a sort of 1x outcome. I hope to be on the 39 a lot rather than shifting between the 50-34 a lot.

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby MichaelB » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:41 am

:D Thanks Lukey boy.

What ratio's are you running ?

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby RonK » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:04 pm

g-boaf wrote:Actually, on that note, a guy did ride Haute Route Dolomites last year on a single-speed bike. :shock: He got a lot of publicity.

Some of the climbs he encountered: Passo Pennes, Rennon Plateau, Lazfons, Brixen-Plancios (17km at 7%), Passo delle Erbe, Passo Gardena, Passo Sella, Passo san Pellegrino, Passo Valles, Passo Lavaze, Passo Costalunga, Passo Fedaia, Tiser, San Boldo

Magnus Backstedt and his daughter have been testing the 3T Strada on the mountain passes and classics routes.

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby RonK » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:25 pm

Prediction: Like the disc brake thread, this one will rage on long after 1x drive trains become original equipment on new bikes.
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g-boaf
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby g-boaf » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:27 pm

RonK wrote:
g-boaf wrote:Actually, on that note, a guy did ride Haute Route Dolomites last year on a single-speed bike. :shock: He got a lot of publicity.

Some of the climbs he encountered: Passo Pennes, Rennon Plateau, Lazfons, Brixen-Plancios (17km at 7%), Passo delle Erbe, Passo Gardena, Passo Sella, Passo san Pellegrino, Passo Valles, Passo Lavaze, Passo Costalunga, Passo Fedaia, Tiser, San Boldo

Magnus Backstedt and his daughter have been testing the 3T Strada on the mountain passes and classics routes.



Still got 11 gears on that. ;) Try a 50/24 single speed like Henry Fisher from the USA did. Unbelievable. :o

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MichaelB
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby MichaelB » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:39 pm

OK, so back to the query about how to achieve a 'brake only' Drop Bar LH lever with Shimano. The following options were suggested by others ;

R400 - old style hidden cable version. No good, as completely different to the RS685 RH lever I'd be using

BL-S705L- Alfine drop bar lever whilst this would probably be the best, it isn't disc hydro and the guts doesn't swap over, so despite it being cheap, it won't quite work. Bummer. Hood shape is probably different too.

Then there's the ST-R785 Di2 Hydro Disc lever. At the end of the day, this gives the 'fixed' braking lever, but the 785 vs 685 hood shape are different.

Out of the above, the R785 is probably the best option, but is the hood shape different enough to make it a pain ? The part numbers are different (Y07T98080 for R785 vs Y07X98080 for the R685).

Or do I go a hybrid R785 Di2 and just forget about the FD .....

Anyone got an old L R785 lever and R R685 disc lever they don't want ..... :roll:

The more I think about it, the more interested I become .....

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baabaa
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby baabaa » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:49 pm

Michael, although a bit big on $$ don't discount the Gevenalle shifter option.
https://www.gevenalle.com/shifters/
they are robust things and even better you can repair them and if the x1 is not working for you, you could go back to a x2 set-up with just a new lever, pod and shifter not the whole new brake and shifter unit
As a bar end user I liked the way you can shift the whole rear end, up or down in one clean action which is what all x1 with wide rear cogs should be about as kinda like single speed you are never really in that ideal gear so you tend to shift more than if you are in x2 with 10 or 11.

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby Duck! » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:42 pm

Seriously, is the shifting action of the lever really that much of an issue? As pointed out previously, it's pretty firmly sprung, so it's not going to flapping in the breeze any more than it currently is (which it isn't doing anyway).

From my relatively brief experience with 1x (as part of a SRAM tech course), I found the absence of shift paddle on the left lever unnervingly unbalanced. Riding on the hoods the brake lever plus shift paddle give a nice broad contact area to rest the index & middle fingers; without the shift paddle only the index finger has a place to rest. Now I'm not particularly OCD, but the asymmetry felt really weird, so I could imagine for someone who is really fussy about such things it could really give them the irrits.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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MichaelB
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby MichaelB » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:29 pm

Hi baabaa - that option is an absolute no go for me. I find it horrible looking and ugly. :) Thanks though.

Hi Duck!, no it's not a big issue, but it's the level of detail I like to go to that's all. I'm a bit nerdy like that and it's the way I like to do things. To just use a std LH shifter and have a 'phantom' shift capability is a bit 'meh' to me :D :D

Reality is though, Unless I can get a Di2 system cheap, it'll be another set of RS-685 shifters, or R8020.

Thanks for the input though. :D

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby Lukeyboy » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:11 pm

MichaelB wrote::D Thanks Lukey boy.

What ratio's are you running ?


50/11-42
42/11-32
32/11-42

Also got a 44T kicking around somewhere. I think thats what I got on my roadies :P

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby MichaelB » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:15 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:
50/11-42
42/11-32
32/11-42

Also got a 44T kicking around somewhere. I think thats what I got on my roadies :P


So, what are the worst things that you have found with the 1x, and what ratio set do use most ?

Do much hill climbing ?

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Lukeyboy
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby Lukeyboy » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:22 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Lukeyboy wrote:
50/11-42
42/11-32
32/11-42

Also got a 44T kicking around somewhere. I think thats what I got on my roadies :P


So, what are the worst things that you have found with the 1x, and what ratio set do use most ?

Do much hill climbing ?


They all have their pros and cons. Especially depending on what I set them up to do.

The 50/11-42 goes alright up hills on the roadie. Definitely the gentlemans ride group set out of my bikes. You can cruise along with your mates with ease and then attack in the hills/descents before regrouping. I love it punching out of corners at 45kph+. You will run into trouble spinning out on descents where you need to pedal but not enough to get into the aero tuck. Its weakness is its mid range as some might just find that jump a little too much - I don't find it that much of a jump but this is coming from someone that does MTB/Road/CX :P Top end and low end are great - for me at least. Commuters might find the limitations quickly with more than likely them running in a particular cog range which is very easy with 1x on road. Definitely my ideal climbing/riding setup out of all my 1x configs current and in the past (depending what the ride is I still prefer the 2x).

For example the 32/11-42 goes pretty good on the really steep hills or when carrying a lot of weight (great for strength training). Speed will be down as a given but you can just keep turning the pedals no matter how steep it gets or how heavy you and the bike are. Most times it will top out at 35kph or 40kph if you wanna go crazy on the cadence on the flats. Despite the super commuter being a flatbar I still classify it as a RoadieSlayer. Nothing like stalking people on the bridges over the Brisbane river and passing roadies up the Roma Street parklands climb with a small box on the back :P
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I would never recommend this config to anyone for the road (I'm another case but I can justify it :P) but most people that would ride that config would find themselves using the 15-11T cogs quite a lot and just burn through cassettes. They might aswell have bought a fixie in that case. But yeah. Great at low speed. Good at climbing slowly. Great if loaded down. Basically MTB gearing. Terrible at absolutely everything else.

The 42/11-32T is on the CX bike. In road config..... the wheels with slicks :P its still top end for me. Mid range is good - not great but okay for me. This would be more than good for others. 44/11-32 would be the base for anyone wanting a road 1x - maybe even a 11-36T which you can get out of SRAM 1x rear mechs before needing the longer cage for 42T. Ideally 48/50 11-36 should cover you for most road applications. 44/11-32 would be the sweet spot for road and CX applications. 42/11-32 11-36T for CX.
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With some people they will find out that with 1x that their bike can not cover all types of riding anymore. Others not so much. On paper they might say you will have both ends covered but that doesn't mean that you will have the range in between perfect. But as I said at the top each bike set up has its intended purpose which works for me.

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby MichaelB » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:46 am

:shock: Thanks Lukeyboy for the detailed reply

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby WyvernRH » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:25 am

Lukeyboy wrote: 44/11-32 would be the base for anyone wanting a road 1x


I would go with that. I toured most of the UK and bits of Europe late 70's early 80's with a 44x12-32 6 then 7 speed.
Didn't race tho.
You do realise that you are all now having the reverse arguments that went on back in the 70's 80's as to if 'light' tourists actually needed to add a second chainring now that wide range 7 speed blocks were available. :)
('Heavy' tourists were already on doubles or triples of course)

I think Rob has it right tho, if the manufavturers want to sell us 1x then thats what everyone will ride, wether it suits what you are doing or not. Try finding a new bike equipped with a triple at the moment, they are awfully untrendy, hard to find even as replacement parts.

Richard

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MichaelB
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby MichaelB » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:35 pm

Lukeyboy wrote: .. 44/11-32 would be the base for anyone wanting a road 1x - maybe even a 11-36T which you can get out of SRAM 1x rear mechs before needing the longer cage for 42T. Ideally 48/50 11-36 should cover you for most road applications. .....


For me, where the climbing gears are more of what I'd want to replicate (existing is a 34/50 & 11-28) , a 44 & 11-36 covers the bottom end, and only loses out on the 50x11 : see here.

If I go with the 44 & 11-32 as Lukeyboy recommends, that cuts out some of the steeper hills I frequent, BUT, if I end up setting up the 2nd frame as a 1x, it's something I could live with, and the advantage would be I already have the 11-32 cassette and Med cage RD.

The 11-36 from SRAM (or even the 11-34 HG-800) are options as well.

I'm starting to like the idea of having a play in the 1x sandpit. If I go with the RS685 levers (same as what I have, or if a deal is available, the R8020 levers), then I have compatibility with the other bike and can convert easily to 2x if the heart/legs don't like the the 1x trial.

:D

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby chriso_29er » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:30 pm

My riding seems to vary way to much, from Beach road flat rides to a Mt Dandenong Crucifix. Unfortunately only the one bike.
Currently a Mid compact 36/52 - 11/28 suits that perfectly with great mid range yet still suitable high and low gears for the 10%+.
Using that calculator I cant seem to find anything that would suit 1X that comes close to the mid compact setup. To many holes in the gearing for even the different sorts of main climbs within one area like MT Dandenong.
Image

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MichaelB
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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby MichaelB » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:25 am

chriso_29er wrote:My riding seems to vary way to much, from Beach road flat rides to a Mt Dandenong Crucifix. Unfortunately only the one bike.
Currently a Mid compact 36/52 - 11/28 suits that perfectly with great mid range yet still suitable high and low gears for the 10%+.
Using that calculator I cant seem to find anything that would suit 1X that comes close to the mid compact setup. To many holes in the gearing for even the different sorts of main climbs within one area like MT Dandenong.


I guess that's the rub that seems to hold people back.

But my question is (and looking at the GCN vid which was interesting) is "are the gaps REALLY an issue, or is it we just like small gaps, as that's the luxury we have now" ?

We have gotten so used to tight ratio's and choices between compact, mid-compact and std, that we 'think' we need it that close. Some like it, some NEED it, and some don't really care, they'll cope with what they have.

I'd personally like to give it a proper go, and see what it's like in the real world and how it affects me, or not, when I ride.

Trouble is, only way to try is to do it and spend some money. :?

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Re: 1x for Road Bikes - is it real?

Postby eeksll » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:30 am

MichaelB wrote:I guess that's the rub that seems to hold people back.


that and the supposed advantages are just not that great when you have to pay top dollar to use this stuff right now.

if it trickles down and gets cheaper or the same price at least, then lets talk.

Lets face it, they are telling us we don't really need all the "features" of a double, you can get what you need on a single BUT to get into that club we will charge you more :?

less is more , but it will cost you more money, boggles my mind.

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