Bicycle Road Rules Question

TroydonAnabolic
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Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby TroydonAnabolic » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:32 pm

Hello,

Question here, new to riding on roads here, just wanted to know based on the picture, where me being the yellow circle on the very left of the lane next to the bus lane of parked cars, do i need to give way to a truck behind me when there is an open gap in a bus lane with parked cars but more parked cars ahead so would be hard to merge with fast traffic to go back onto the lane next to it as not enough space in the bus lane.
also note it was a 50 speed zone.

http://s58.photobucket.com/user/tluicien/media/QUE4Y_zpsse6dhx83.png.html

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find_bruce
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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby find_bruce » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:30 pm

TroydonAnabolic wrote:Hello,

Question here, new to riding on roads here, just wanted to know based on the picture, where me being the yellow circle on the very left of the lane next to the bus lane of parked cars, do i need to give way to a truck behind me when there is an open gap in a bus lane with parked cars but more parked cars ahead so would be hard to merge with fast traffic to go back onto the lane next to it as not enough space in the bus lane.
also note it was a 50 speed zone.

Image

Welcome outside.

I am a bit confused as to why you would be riding right on the lane divider. It is good to keep out of the door zone & if there is not enough room to safely ride in the bus lane, ride in the next lane - being betwixt and between invites drivers to close shave you and arguments as to whether or not you are changing lanes.

The simple answer is that if you are in a lane, you do not have to give way to any vehicle behind you. If you are changing from the bus lane into the next lane however

Not sure which state or territory you are in, but in NSW, road rule 146 requires you to stay within a lane unless you are changing lanes. If you are changing lanes then road rule 148 requires you to give way.

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bychosis
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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby bychosis » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:41 pm

Don't duck in and out of parked cars, unless it is a nice long section and you will allow all the following cars past before you need to return to the main lane. It makes it much harder to return to the other lane because you need to give way to other vehicles using it.

I use some courtesy in this situation and move across to allow faster traffic past as I believe it saves me from having a frustrated (but unjustly so) driver behind me.

Also try not to ride in a position that squeezes you between parked cars and moving traffic. Riding a little wider is safer as the drivers behind do not have sufficient space to squeeze past, so they will normally wait for an overtaking opportunity.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

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Tequestra
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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby Tequestra » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:55 pm

Thank you for the photo, Find_Bruce. I tried the photobucket link, got a whole lot of advertising, and when I clicked to goto the site, got stuck at a whirly thing and that was it.

This is a very good question IMHO, because I get the same dilemma every time on the way back from The Beach to The Shops. It is not a bus lane, but a single-lane road, up a gentle hill, and there are always cars parked along the left side at the start of the hill for around 200m, and then usually an open left lane for around 50m, (meant for roadside car parking not for travel), and then a left side-street, then the road narrows at the end of the hill so there is no place for cars to park, and I can go no further to the left than 6" off the kerb, and that is still not enough width for anything larger than a small car to squeeze past and break the 1m-> rule in any case for that last 50m before the roundabout near the top of the hill.

It is that gap between the first line of parked cars and the side street that almost always befuddles me, becauss if there is no car parked in that 50m gap, (sometimes there is), then I do try to make a clearly visible signal to the car behind by peeling off into that left parking lane, so that a quick car behind could throttle it and get by me before I reach the side road, but they rarely try it. This is good because it would take a powerful car to accelerate from 35km/h and pass me in 50m, so I had room to pull back to the only piece of road available at the side street.

I would think that in this case, with the 'bus lane' full of parked cars, it depends three things: the length of the gap, the pace of the bike, and the estimated acceleration that the car behind could possibly be likely to average. Impossible to know the last variable.

If it was me, I'd tend to think that any gap under 50m is not worth the risk of winding up on the brakes before running into the back of the car at the end of that gap with nowhere else to go because the car behind me is only halfway past me. If it is over 50m, and I am doing over UNDER 30km/h then I would try to be courteous and move left so that the car behind can get by. I then have to indicate right, change back to the right lane again right behind that car, so anything else behind the first car is out of luck.

It is a real tricky one, if you want to be courteous. It depends on the length of the gap.


PS: Another variable that just came to mind is how close the car behind is following, because that is a reasonable sign of that driver's intent, and so if they're less than around 10m behind, (dangerous tailgating) then maybe that driver will welcome the opportunity to fang it and get past me if I peel off for the 50m stretch. The length of the gap is probably the most important and predictable variable, but if they're dawdling, then the gap need be a longer before I'd peel off.
Last edited by Tequestra on Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sparx
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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby Sparx » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:41 pm

I find in that situation a lot depends on my speed. If it's a downhill section of road I'll move to the right and take the whole lane so as not to be in the door zone while going at speed and also I'm less likely to frustrate drivers as I will be travelling relatively fast.

If uphill I'll sneak past in the door zone by moving entirely into the bus lane.

Don't get too stuck on the rules - you don't need to break rules but riding for your own safety is the most important. And for me that includes not unnecessarily annoying motorists!

TroydonAnabolic
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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby TroydonAnabolic » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:30 pm

thanks for the responses guys, in some instances i have mixed up going back and forth from bus lane and the lane next to it when i think there is not a big line behind the car behind by having a quick look at the back and let the one go by, but in one case i did stay in the lane next to the bust lane on the edge almost touching the dividing line and there was a frustrated (but unjustly so) truck honking behind me.

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Tequestra
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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby Tequestra » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:03 pm

TroydonAnabolic wrote:... and there was a frustrated (but unjustly so) truck honking behind me.

Don't that make you wish you were driving a tractor, Troydon? Welcome to the forum, by the way. I'm a newbie too.
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Kronos
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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby Kronos » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:48 pm

Legally, unless you're on a road where the speed limit is over 100km/hr you can't be fined for being an obstruction on the road. That's the short and the long of it.

Realistically you should be riding in the bus lane for your own safety if you have to ride on the road (which is legal in Australia) and you should not be weaving in and out of traffic where drivers can't see you if you don't want to get run over and squashed.

I will take an entire lane for my own safety as the case may be. The law says keep as far left as possible, if there are parked cars in the bus lane in this instance that means I will ride in the middle of the lane and take the whole lane, otherwise you generally run the risk of being passed illegally.

Ride vigilantly, and with safety, and take a position of dominance and asertivness on the road where the case requires it. If that means taking a whole lane and riding in the middle of the road, then do it. If you ride with assertiveness you can also deal with idiots with the middle finger and ride on. Despite their aggression very few drivers will actually actively choose to run into a cyclist unless they happen to be a psychopath that doesn't know right from wrong.

My final piece of advice is to simply know your limits and limitations, I will not ride in the town I live in peak hour traffic while clipped in with road type cleats. There are too many unkowns to ride in pedals that only unclip one way in an emergency situation. I'll choose to use the bicycle underpasses to go around main roads and roundabouts instead, and if that means ending up on a footpath so be that it is legal to do so in Queensland.

AdelaidePeter
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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby AdelaidePeter » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:25 am

Kronos wrote:I will take an entire lane for my own safety as the case may be. The law says keep as far left as possible, if there are parked cars in the bus lane in this instance that means I will ride in the middle of the lane and take the whole lane, otherwise you generally run the risk of being passed illegally.


Actually, and I only learned this recently myself, the "keep as left as practicable" law only applies to a single lane road. On a multi lane road you can legally ride in the middle of the lane for as long as you want:

ARR 129 (my emphasis): "A driver on a road (except a multi-lane road) must drive as near as practicable to the far left side of the road."

That said, I find it nerve wracking and avoid this sort of situation whenever possible. In fact on one busy city street in Adelaide (Frome Street, north of the section which is a bikeway) I ride on the footpath for 2 blocks. It costs me a minute or two, but I just don't feel safe with cars trying to whizz past me if I take a driving lane (there are 2 "driving lanes" and 1 "parking lane"); and there's certainly no way I'm riding in the parking lane where a car door can open and kill me.

twowheels
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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby twowheels » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:09 am

Notwithstanding legalities, ride safe. If the truck is bigger and faster than you, and you start feeling like Dennis Weaver, let the truck past so you can arrive at your destination.

Kronos
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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby Kronos » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:50 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:
Kronos wrote:I will take an entire lane for my own safety as the case may be. The law says keep as far left as possible, if there are parked cars in the bus lane in this instance that means I will ride in the middle of the lane and take the whole lane, otherwise you generally run the risk of being passed illegally.
I find it nerve wracking and avoid this sort of situation whenever possible. In fact on one busy city street in Adelaide (Frome Street, north of the section which is a bikeway) I ride on the footpath for 2 blocks. It costs me a minute or two, but I just don't feel safe with cars trying to whizz past me if I take a driving lane (there are 2 "driving lanes" and 1 "parking lane"); and there's certainly no way I'm riding in the parking lane where a car door can open and kill me.



If you find it nerve wracking do what I do by considering that its probably not safe at the time. I live in the city of roundabouts on the Sunshine Coast. When its back to back traffic, I head for the underpasses/overpasses and bridges. To sum it up, I avoid being on the road. It may eat into your Strava times but its better than being dead.

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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby Jmuzz » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:29 pm

Don't ride in the door opening zone, not even if it's a bike lane. The law allows for "if practical" which door zone is not. Those lanes were designed by idiots who should be forced to ride in then daily themselves until they get doored and learn their lesson.

If you change lanes to the right then you do have to indicate and give way.

Beware overtaking buses on the curb. You have to give way to them coming off the curb, but many bus drivers think this is a right for them to ram their way out across multiple lanes the second they put their blinker on, so you want to be well clear of them.

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Tequestra
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Re: Bicycle Road Rules Question

Postby Tequestra » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:15 pm

Jmuzz wrote:Beware overtaking buses on the curb. You have to give way to them coming off the curb, but many bus drivers think this is a right for them to ram their way out across multiple lanes the second they put their blinker on, so you want to be well clear of them.

Good morning, Jmuzz. (I'd guess that's an affectionate if not mildly condescending pronunciation of 'James', having given it much consideration over the past week). You just touched on the precise reason I am awaiting some internal investigation of camera footage from a bus which pulled out on me halfway through overtaking it sixteen(16) days and fifteen(15) odd minutes ago. It was this event that Friday morning which actually led me to look around for Australian cycling forums and find this one.

I only wrote an email to TransPerth to thank them for being the best public service I have ever known in Australia, and ask them to let their excellent and professional drivers know about the 'electric bike' fad imported from China, and ask these drivers to get into the habit of waiting around three(3) seconds after switching their turn-signal indicator switch from the LEFT to RIGHT setting, so that a bicycle less than 4-5m behind (too close to stop) has time to travel the distance past their front bumper enough to merge back to the left. The last thing I wanted to do was identify the driver, because I know that they don't care about the fact that he will remember me and seek vengeance at every possible bus stop he pulls out from now.

I would think that currently it is wise to apply the 1m-> rule to parked buses (and watch which way their front wheel is pointing before they pounce) even though they don't even have a door on their right side.

Have a Great Sunday mate.
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