Question about cycling road rules NSW.

uart
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Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby uart » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:37 pm

With reference to this few month old quiz (which is based on Qld road rules) : http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-30/w ... iz/9315714

Just wondering how many of those answers would differ for NSW. For one I'm pretty sure that the footpath question is wrong for NSW, but I'm wondering about the "Zebra" crossing question as well.

Can anyone clarify this? (particularly the Zebra crossing question).

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Tequestra
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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby Tequestra » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:03 pm

uart wrote:With reference to this few month old quiz (which is based on Qld road rules) : http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-30/w ... iz/9315714

Just wondering how many of those answers would differ for NSW. For one I'm pretty sure that the footpath question is wrong for NSW, but I'm wondering about the "Zebra" crossing question as well.

Can anyone clarify this? (particularly the Zebra crossing question).


I cannot even tell you what the law for 'zebra' crossings is in Western Australia, let alone New South Wales. I too got that one wrong though. I do feel okay to amble across the intersection at traffic lights when the 'Walk' sign is green (or red if there's no chance of an unmarked car in sight), but a crosswalk is like some kind of sacred walking place, so I would at least take the feet off the pedals and push along with the feet at walking pace, not to scare anyone in front at least. I did not know that it was legal in Queensland and I would not know whether it is here too, nor in New South Wales either. If it is, I still don't feel inclined to go a BMXing across crosswalks if there are any pedestrians on it, especially old ladies.
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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby biker jk » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:06 pm

You can't ride across a zebra crossing in NSW. You are required to dismount. The same applies to signalled crossings unless there is a bike crossing signal.

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby uart » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:35 pm

biker jk wrote:You can't ride across a zebra crossing in NSW. You are required to dismount. The same applies to signalled crossings unless there is a bike crossing signal.

Thanks bjk. Yeah I answered that you can't ride across them and got it wrong. Looks like I was actually correct for NSW though. :)

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby uart » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:36 pm

Tequestra wrote: I too got that one wrong though. I do feel okay to amble across the intersection at traffic lights when the 'Walk' sign is green.

Yes, as do I. Apparently though even this is illegal in NSW. :(

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby Kronos » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:17 pm

You can ride on the footpath and accross zebra crossings in Queensland but its not as black and white as that. You have to keep left and give way to pedestrians. Moreover if its signed that the path is not for bicycles you can't ride on it.

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby hunch » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:22 pm

uart wrote:Just wondering how many of those answers would differ for NSW. For one I'm pretty sure that the footpath question is wrong for NSW, but I'm wondering about the "Zebra" crossing question as well.

Can anyone clarify this? (particularly the Zebra crossing question).


There are recent exemptions in NSW - introduced by Duncan Gay of all people - allowing riding on footpaths. You just have to worry about self righteous types who seem to need to right, every perceived bicycle wrongdoing by verbal or even physical assault, while not blinking an eye at life threatening behaviour by drivers nearby!

You need a medical certificate, signed off by a GP, renewed yearly iirc - not unlike the dubious, helmet get out of gaol cards, some people use in the blitzes. :mrgreen: Not sure about transition from footpath to crossing in that case, as it doesn't appear to spelled out. You'd have to strike a real b@stard cop to fine you though.

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby uart » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:30 pm

hunch wrote:There are recent exemptions in NSW - introduced by Duncan Gay of all people - allowing riding on footpaths.

That sounds positive.
You need a medical certificate, signed off by a GP, renewed yearly iirc

Oh Bummer.

So exactly what type of medical condition do you need to prove that it is unsafe for you to ride on the road? Yes, it all sounds very dubious.

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby queequeg » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:13 pm

biker jk wrote:You can't ride across a zebra crossing in NSW. You are required to dismount. The same applies to signalled crossings unless there is a bike crossing signal.


Which is rather silly when these crossings are on bike paths
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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby hunch » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:32 am

uart wrote:
hunch wrote:There are recent exemptions in NSW - introduced by Duncan Gay of all people - allowing riding on footpaths.

That sounds positive.
You need a medical certificate, signed off by a GP, renewed yearly iirc

Oh Bummer.

So exactly what type of medical condition do you need to prove that it is unsafe for you to ride on the road? Yes, it all sounds very dubious.


Nothing proscribed and doubt there's any need for a certificate to describe the condition for plod's satisfaction......anxiety about being crushed by crazed automobilists should work even. :lol:

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:17 am

uart wrote:So exactly what type of medical condition do you need to prove that it is unsafe for you to ride on the road? Yes, it all sounds very dubious.


Medical condition which prevents you from riding on the road.
Clearly it is intended for people who legitimately have trouble with balance, vision, power.

Cops aren't qualified to judge that, though they can probably photo the certificate (which must be in your possession at all times when riding on footpath) and refer a complaint to some medical board claiming he doctor seems to be handing out certificates to someone they saw punching out 500W prior to bunny hopping up onto the footpath.

Could be argued that the legitimacy could be questioned if you are seen on the road when there is a footpath alongside.

Unlikely to really care though, since other states are relaxing the footpath and crossings prohibitions so NSW can't be far behind. Data from the other states trials will be available for processing over the next 6 months so they should be reviewing the rules for 2019 at the latest.

If misbehaving on the footpath they still have their reckless/furious or whatever rules to fine you with and if you hit a pedestrian you are still in liability trouble.

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:42 am

queequeg wrote:Which is rather silly when these crossings are on bike paths


The logic is that it stops bikes flying across at 40kph which no car can respond to in lots of situations.

That's where 10kph limits can be a sensible compromise, though speedbumps and chicanes seem to be their idea now.

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby g-boaf » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:13 pm

Jmuzz wrote:
queequeg wrote:Which is rather silly when these crossings are on bike paths


The logic is that it stops bikes flying across at 40kph which no car can respond to in lots of situations.

That's where 10kph limits can be a sensible compromise, though speedbumps and chicanes seem to be their idea now.


10km/h limits on crossings, or on cycleways in general? 10km/h in general is too slow. People run faster than that.

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:36 pm

On the footpath crossings, and anywhere considered "too dangerous" for bikes due to their speed. 10kph is a fast walk or slow jog so nobody can claim that makes the bike being ridden any more dangerous than a pedestrian.

But sensible speed limits will be the lucky outcome.
There is going to be a phase where they think placing expensive hazards on the footpath is more effective at enforcing slowdowns.

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby queequeg » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:46 pm

Jmuzz wrote:
queequeg wrote:Which is rather silly when these crossings are on bike paths


The logic is that it stops bikes flying across at 40kph which no car can respond to in lots of situations.

That's where 10kph limits can be a sensible compromise, though speedbumps and chicanes seem to be their idea now.


Most crossings are preceded by bollards, or gates that you have to navigate. At that point it becomes just an annoyance to have to have to unclip, dismount, duck waddle over the crossing, remount, clip back in and ride off...and the repeat that process every time the path intersects a road that has white stripes on it (because not all of them do, and the rule only applies to the ones with some white paint).

I guess in the end, the rules are catering for that one person who has no sense of self preservation or sense to approach a crossing and look both ways before going across. At that point, whether you are moving slow on the bike, or off it, makes no difference.
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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby duncanm » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:55 pm

queequeg wrote:I guess in the end, the rules are catering for that one person who has no sense of self preservation or sense to approach a crossing and look both ways before going across. At that point, whether you are moving slow on the bike, or off it, makes no difference.


or inattentive child. This is a pretty important class of people to consider.

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby Kronos » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:57 pm

Jmuzz wrote:On the footpath crossings, and anywhere considered "too dangerous" for bikes due to their speed. 10kph is a fast walk or slow jog so nobody can claim that makes the bike being ridden any more dangerous than a pedestrian.

But sensible speed limits will be the lucky outcome.
There is going to be a phase where they think placing expensive hazards on the footpath is more effective at enforcing slowdowns.


Where I'm from most of the crossings are raised, some of them have gates or bollards, I especially like the ones that are raised when I'm riding my bike. Due to my history in BMX racing I can get through raised crossings and maintain a higher average speed than most cars. I treat those kinds of roads as a rhythm section.

If you're coming through a crossing the "proper way" in going over it on your bike, its just a matter of slowing down, I find it difficult to imagine that most people can't do 8 to 10km/hr without falling over.

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby uart » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:30 pm

Sorry to drift off topic, but what is the current state of the law re riding on the footpath in Victoria? From what I've read from other members here I thought it was legal, but this Vic roads link says it's not. So is Victoria the same as NSW on this, no riding on the footpath there either?

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety- ... s/bicycles

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby find_bruce » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:15 pm

Always worth referring to the actual text of legislation.
NSW Road Rule 250
(1A) A rider of a bicycle does not have to comply with subrule (1) if:

(a) the rider is carrying a medical certificate that states a medical practitioner believes the rider should be allowed to ride on the footpath because of a medical condition the rider has, and

(b) the rider is complying with any conditions stated in the medical certificate, and

(c) no other law of this jurisdiction states that this subrule does not apply.

(1B) Also, a rider of a bicycle does not have to comply with subrule (1) if the rider is accompanying another person who is exempt under subrule (1A).

(1C) However, the rider is exempt under subrule (1A) or (1B) only if the rider who is carrying the medical certificate immediately produces the medical certificate when an authorised person asks to see the certificate.

(1C–1) A rider is not exempt under subrule (1A) or (1B) if there is a bicycle path or shared path available near the footpath.

(2) The rider of a bicycle riding on a footpath or shared path must:

(a) keep to the left of the footpath or shared path unless it is impracticable to do so, and

(b) give way to any pedestrian on the footpath or shared path.

(3) In this rule:
... medical condition means a medical condition that makes it impractical or unsafe for a person who has the condition to ride a bicycle on the road.


As bikerjk says, even if you are allowed to ride on the footpath, you are still required to dismount - there is no exemption from the requirements in NSW Road Rule 248

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby Arbuckle23 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:23 pm

uart wrote: what is the current state of the law re riding on the footpath in Victoria? From what I've read from other members here I thought it was legal, but this Vic roads link says it's not. So is Victoria the same as NSW on this, no riding on the footpath there either?

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety- ... s/bicycles


I would go with Vicroads rather than what anyone here thinks!

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby uart » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:31 pm

Arbuckle23 wrote:I would go with Vicroads rather than what anyone here thinks!


Yes, I'm just surprised that (from my recollection) so many of the guys from Vic seem to think that they can (legally ride on the footpath).

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby find_bruce » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:31 pm

uart wrote:Sorry to drift off topic, but what is the current state of the law re riding on the footpath in Victoria? From what I've read from other members here I thought it was legal, but this Vic roads link says it's not. So is Victoria the same as NSW on this, no riding on the footpath there either?

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety- ... s/bicycles

Vic Road Rule 250 is basically the same as NSW - the medical condition must make it "undesirable, impracticable or inexpedient for the rider to ride on the road". Like NSW there is no exemption from riding across a crossing Vic Road Rule 248.

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Re: Question about cycling road rules NSW.

Postby uart » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:55 pm

Thanks everyone.

BTW. If anyone is wondering how consistently that rule is enforced, here's a quick anecdote. About a month or two back my wife and I were riding up towards Nobbys Beach (on the path at the left as shown in the link, though it's a little different since the super cars went through, and the path is now wider than shown and a proper shared path).

Anyway, just as I approached the crossing, a police car came out of the car park to the left and stopped for me to cross. I knew full well that I was supposed to dismount, and I thought about it for a second, but then just gave him a quick wave and rode across. (As did my wife who was following.)

Later my wife said to me "weren't we supposed to get off the bikes at the crossing back there" and I said "yep". :D

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