First FTP test outdoors

[mdaniels]

Hi guys,

Pretty new to cycling (10 hours a week for the past 3 months) and I have just bought
a power meter to get more valuable data to track my progress.

Going to try and complete my first FTP test. As I am doing it outdoors, does anyone know any good locations? I know there
is a small velodrome in Hawthorn, or just a nice road segment with minimal traffic lights more ideal?

Also any tips for completing the first test successfully would be greatly appreciated.

[MichaelB]

No idea about where you live, but from what I have read and learnt here, you want a good hill that will take at least 20 min (30 min is better), has a constant gradient (or as constant as possible) and repeatable conditions.


Head to the 'Training' section in the 'Road racing' sub-forum, and you'll get more reading material.

PS - it's not fun

[macca33]

1 in 20 at The Basin may suit your needs if you want to do it on a 20-minute climb on the road, otherwise velodrome, or The Boulevard may suit you.

cheers

[g-boaf]

Velodrome is best, away from cars or any other interruptions. Then you can just smash yourself.

Start out at a tough but sustainable pace, then last ten minutes gradually pick things up. Last two or three minutes absolutely flat out. When finished you should feel completely spent.

[mdaniels]

No idea about where you live, but from what I have read and learnt here, you want a good hill that will take at least 20 min (30 min is better), has a constant gradient (or as constant as possible) and repeatable conditions.


Head to the 'Training' section in the 'Road racing' sub-forum, and you'll get more reading material.

PS - it's not fun

Sorry I should have stated that in my original post! I live in Richmond, Melbourne.

Thanks for the tips!

[mdaniels]

1 in 20 at The Basin may suit your needs if you want to do it on a 20-minute climb on the road, otherwise velodrome, or The Boulevard may suit you.

cheers

Thanks for the suggestions! Haven't done the basin but heard its a pretty nice ride, will check it out.

I live right next to the Bouldevard so was toying with this and the Veledrome in Hawthorn (But i guess this veledrom might be too small?)

[mdaniels]

Velodrome is best, away from cars or any other interruptions. Then you can just smash yourself.

Start out at a tough but sustainable pace, then last ten minutes gradually pick things up. Last two or three minutes absolutely flat out. When finished you should feel completely spent.

Thanks for the tips with pacing, does it matter how big the Veledrome is? I have a small one near my house in Hawthorn, but its a small circle. I guess its easier as I wont have to worry about any cars like you said

[BugsBunny]

Ideally.... no traffic lights so you can complete the full 20 min w/o interruption, no traffic so its safe and you don't need to slow / pause too long, mild gradient - circa 5% seems good to keep a rather consistent cadence and not with too many steep pitches that drag your cadence down too low, don't overestimate your ability and start out too strong else you will suffer the pain in the latter half.

If you cannot find a 20min segment, then there is an alternative - which is of 8 minutes duration with a 0.90 factor to derive your FTP. You are supposed to do it twice - with a short 10 min break in between and then take the average. The 8 min one is particular suited to beginners who have not done a full 20 min FTP before. Might be a good one for you to start with until you build more endurance.

If you have access to an indoor trainer - then thats also an option.

Good luck!

[g-boaf]

Velodrome is best, away from cars or any other interruptions. Then you can just smash yourself.

Start out at a tough but sustainable pace, then last ten minutes gradually pick things up. Last two or three minutes absolutely flat out. When finished you should feel completely spent.

Thanks for the tips with pacing, does it matter how big the Veledrome is? I have a small one near my house in Hawthorn, but its a small circle. I guess its easier as I wont have to worry about any cars like you said

How big is it, 240m, or 430m?

Doesn't really matter, if nobody else is there, just sit in the sprinters lane, keep a nice steady line and gun it. Just have your timer going on the garmin screen, average watts for the lap and actual watts. Maybe cadence as well if you need to see that, otherwise most fairly switched on riders can know what rpm they are turning their pedals at fairly accurately without needing to see any numbers. You learn by feel.

If it's a short velodrome with steeper banking, just stay down just above the black line (which is above the cote d'azur). Take a few easy warm up laps to get the feel of that. Don't look closely at the immediate corner, look further ahead and it'll feel natural pretty quickly. Don't drift up either, climbing up the banking is not what you want to do, and certainly don't go below the black line.

https://www.velodromeshop.net/veloguide.bmp

If it's a flat velodrome, then just go kill yourself on there.

Ideally.... no traffic lights so you can complete the full 20 min w/o interruption, no traffic so its safe and you don't need to slow / pause too long, mild gradient - circa 5% seems good to keep a rather consistent cadence and not with too many steep pitches that drag your cadence down too low, don't overestimate your ability and start out too strong else you will suffer the pain in the latter half.

If you cannot find a 20min segment, then there is an alternative - which is of 8 minutes duration with a 0.90 factor to derive your FTP. You are supposed to do it twice - with a short 10 min break in between and then take the average. The 8 min one is particular suited to beginners who have not done a full 20 min FTP before. Might be a good one for you to start with until you build more endurance.

If you have access to an indoor trainer - then thats also an option.

Good luck!

8 minute segment, done twice, that's the Carmichael field test isn't it (Chris Carmichael, of CTS). I've read his ideas about it.

Another method would be the MAP ramp test, with a 0.75 multiplication of whatever the watts are (where you blew up). That's also a decent option:

https://cyclingtips.com/2010/01/how-to- ... ramp-test/

If you mess it up, it isn't such a long test to do. That's one that is done on a smart trainer if the OP has access to one (ie, if a friend might have one). It's another option if the 20min or 2x8min tests don't work out.

[madmacca]

Velodrome is best, away from cars or any other interruptions. Then you can just smash yourself.

Start out at a tough but sustainable pace, then last ten minutes gradually pick things up. Last two or three minutes absolutely flat out. When finished you should feel completely spent.

Thanks for the tips with pacing, does it matter how big the Veledrome is? I have a small one near my house in Hawthorn, but its a small circle. I guess its easier as I wont have to worry about any cars like you said

I use the Hawthorn velodrome regularly for intervals and longer tests where I can focus on just holding a high level of power output without stopping or worrying about traffic. The length is a bit over 300 metres, although that shouldn't really matter - FTP effort requires sufficient mental focus that you won't get bored doing constant laps.

For an FTP test, you should be on the inside lane (the "slow" and "fast" lane signs haven't been repainted since it was resurfaced in December).

I agree with setting up the screen with timer, 3s power, lap average power and perhaps cadence. The other thing is trying to pick a calm day - switching from headwind to crosswind to tailwind every 10 seconds makes holding constant power harder.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Also any tips for completing the first test successfully would be greatly appreciated.

Just don't expect your first go to reveal all that you might wish for.

I'd do a "trial run" first and then come back and do the test another day. We always go better after a bit of familiarisation.

Having somewhere you can ride uninterrupted for 20-60 minutes is best. I have a 333m outdoor velodrome not far from me that I have used for tests up to ~20-30 minutes.

In general I recommend those starting with a power meter just ride as they normally do for a couple of weeks before doing anything specific or testing. Best to work out any foibles with your unit, make sure you are confident in the processes so that the data is accurate and reliable. Also you need to learn to not look at it too much.

[RobertL]

Do you have a criterium track anywhere near you? There is a 1.2km crit track near my place* that is perfect for FTP tests and interval training. You can go there and do laps at whatever pace you want without interruption.

* It's literally 3.5km from my house, and mostly downhill to get there. Riding from my house to the track is not even a proper warm up.

[BugsBunny]

@g-boaf

I must admit I'm not sure where the 8 minute FTP test originated. I did mine from within the TrainerRoad app. They recommended for newish riders or those first timers doing FTP to choose the 8 min version.

FWIW, a mate of mine (who's been riding "regularly" for about 12 months) who did the 20 min FTP and a few weeks later started on TrainerRoad and did the 8 min FTP had the exact same FTP outcome - from memory 200 vs 199 watts >>> 2.9w/kg.

[kb]

Velodrome is best, away from cars or any other interruptions. Then you can just smash yourself.

Start out at a tough but sustainable pace, then last ten minutes gradually pick things up. Last two or three minutes absolutely flat out. When finished you should feel completely spent.

Depends on time and day though. If there are kids (or anyone that doesn’t know to keep right if going slower) it can make for a rather lumpy effort.

[g-boaf]

@g-boaf

I must admit I'm not sure where the 8 minute FTP test originated. I did mine from within the TrainerRoad app. They recommended for newish riders or those first timers doing FTP to choose the 8 min version.

FWIW, a mate of mine (who's been riding "regularly" for about 12 months) who did the 20 min FTP and a few weeks later started on TrainerRoad and did the 8 min FTP had the exact same FTP outcome - from memory 200 vs 199 watts >>> 2.9w/kg.

The 2x8 is good as well. Detailed a bit in the Time Crunched Cyclist book, not bad.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

@g-boaf

I must admit I'm not sure where the 8 minute FTP test originated. I did mine from within the TrainerRoad app. They recommended for newish riders or those first timers doing FTP to choose the 8 min version.

FWIW, a mate of mine (who's been riding "regularly" for about 12 months) who did the 20 min FTP and a few weeks later started on TrainerRoad and did the 8 min FTP had the exact same FTP outcome - from memory 200 vs 199 watts >>> 2.9w/kg.

The shorter the tests, and/or the fewer the test durations used, the lower the precision will be of an FTP estimate.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Do you have a criterium track anywhere near you?

Not all crit tracks are suitable for a quasi-steady state effort. Depends on how technical it is.

[RobertL]

Do you have a criterium track anywhere near you?

Not all crit tracks are suitable for a quasi-steady state effort. Depends on how technical it is.

Good point.