Canyon Grail...those bars!

[baabaa]

Anyway CX bars which have a bit of flare and short drop have been around for ages and gravel biking is just a new term for what the shearers did 100 years ago but without the flair.....
Here is my I-be-no-ultra-bike on one of the better local roads showing off the flares from behind

So what's your reason for all this flair? Assuming you're not just a hipster fixie rider.

No.
I would be polar to a hipster and more a daggy single speeder (not fixed). My full flair will be achieved once I go the real dag-shearer style and do the full 1920s drop bar 180 degree flip. This trend will be big, no wait monster big in the US once they see it.
Re the bars try them like me, you may like them as well. I also run flared 46cm cx bars on my cx and even the sportive bikes as they work for me.
I also care nothing about what my bikes look like when I am riding as I don't have to look at them.

[baabaa]

Anyway CX bars which have a bit of flare and short drop have been around for ages and gravel biking is just a new term for what the shearers did 100 years ago but without the flair.....
Here is my I-be-no-ultra-bike on one of the better local roads showing off the flares from behind

So what's your reason for all this flair? Assuming you're not just a hipster fixie rider.

15 degrees of flair is the bare minimum. Brian, for example, has 37 degrees of flair.

Is this Brian?

[Comedian]

And the quest continues to replace the compliance lost in the fork by the addition of disk brakes. First the Specialised "Future Shock" and now this..

People seem to really struggle with this - but just because disc brakes are great on a MTB doesn't mean that a road bike isn't quite different. On a road bike the only suspension in the front is the tyre and fork flex. Place a asymmetric brake load at the tip of the fork and you're going to have to make it a lot stronger. Whoopsie.. compliance in the fork is lost leaving only the tyre.

Lauf have an idea to add a spring to the front which is the best I've seen.

http://www.laufforks.com/true-grit/#LTGSpecs

[MichaelB]

And the quest continues to replace the compliance lost in the fork by the addition of disk brakes. First the Specialised "Future Shock" and now this....

Seriously, what planet are you on ? I’ve seen you draw some looooooong bows before, but this takes the cake

[Comedian]

And the quest continues to replace the compliance lost in the fork by the addition of disk brakes. First the Specialised "Future Shock" and now this....

Seriously, what planet are you on ? I’ve seen you draw some looooooong bows before, but this takes the cake

If you don't understand how forks act to add compliance to a road bike - and how significantly adding a massive asymmetric force to the lowest point on one side then there is nothing I can do to help you understand that. I'm surprised you haven't seen me mention it before (I know I have) .. it's one of my biggest concerns about disc braked road bikes.

Perhaps you should educate Jan Heine about how stupid he is?? Personally I can feel a very big difference between a very rigid fork and one with some compliance and I really prefer it.

Disadvantages.
Stiff fork blades: Disc brakes require relatively stiff fork blades, because the caliper is mounted near the bottom of the fork. This means that the small-diameter, shock-absorbing fork blades of our favorite custom bikes don’t work well with disc brakes. For production bikes, this isn’t really an issue. Most production forks don’t offer much shock absorption anyhow: They are plenty stiff for disc brakes.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/01/ ... -and-cons/

A fork should be laterally stiff while able to dampen out vibrations from the road.

https://cyclingtips.com/2012/05/whats-in-a-fork/

Maybe it's just coincidence that disc brakes rock up on the scene.. and then all these whacky systems to add compliance to the front of bikes start appearing. Actually.. let me spin it another way. See if you can tell me where I can get a suspension system on a road bike with rim brakes? Go on??

EDIT: Argue with specialised about it perhaps?

With many comfort performance bikes, fore and aft movement (splay) is where you’ll find much of the technology and comfort benefits, the flex of the fork or seat post providing the majority of the compliance.

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/first-l ... baix-2017/

[RonK]

However, as soon as I saw that 3T had released their take on the gravel bar, I ordered them.

So, you didn't have to think twice about the price? At that money you'd wanna hope they don't break when you take the inevitable gravel roads tumble.

[MichaelB]

I can hear myself now repeating 5 times ;

"Must not teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig".

Sorry about that.

Now to reset to the topic and those silly bars. As pointed out earlier, great advertising, as it talks about their bikes, and who really care s if it disappears in a year, as they'll have the improved version !!!

[RonK]

As pointed out earlier, great advertising, as it talks about their bikes, and who really care s if it disappears in a year, as they'll have the improved version !!!

It's not just the bars - they are integral to the frame geometry and cannot be replaced with a conventional bar.

So who is going to risk buying something so unconventional through Canyon's online market model when you cannot inspect it or try it for fit?

Seems likely to be a big flop.

[queequeg]

However, as soon as I saw that 3T had released their take on the gravel bar, I ordered them.

So, you didn't have to think twice about the price? At that money you'd wanna hope they don't break when you take the inevitable gravel roads tumble.

Nah, I figured that given the $$ spent on this bike, what's another $369 I have the VentureMax bars as a backup, so if the fit of the 3T bars doesn't work, I have other options to try. Plus, given I am on anti-coagulation, the bars are the least of my worry if I stack it!

[MattyK]

15 degrees of flair is the bare minimum. Brian, for example, has 37 degrees of flair.

L.O.L.

[MichaelB]

As pointed out earlier, great advertising, as it talks about their bikes, and who really care s if it disappears in a year, as they'll have the improved version !!!

It's not just the bars - they are integral to the frame geometry and cannot be replaced with a conventional bar.

So who is going to risk buying something so unconventional through Canyon's online market model when you cannot inspect it or try it for fit?

Seems likely to be a big flop.

Or often called a loss leader. The bars are the only thing that are unique (if I'm not mistaken). Grail2 will return to normal design along with some clever marketing splurge that says it's even better than Grail1. And then they will sell ....

[Thoglette]

Meanwhile, Van Schip runs 32cm vintage Japanese touring handlebars

(From Bike Radar)

[RonK]

Or often called a loss leader. The bars are the only thing that are unique (if I'm not mistaken).

You are mistaken. The bike has a low front and a short head tube to compensate for the bars.

First, Canyon claims a 120g weight penalty over a standard cockpit setup – not massive, but not nothing, either.

Second, the Hover Bar’s unique geometry requires an attachment point much lower down on the steerer tube than usual, which will make fitting other options essentially impossible. Something else might technically fit, but the position would be unreasonably low.

Making matters worse is the fact the Grail comes fitted (depending on size) with one stem length and one bar width. There’s no option for changing it during the ordering process, and buying a replacement would be costly.

Canyon has known this from the outset, so the sizes were chosen to fit a “standard” body shape and size. The medium Grail I rode came with a 440mm-wide bar and a relative stem length of 75mm, but if you fall anywhere outside of “standard”, you’re basically stuck.

Canyon Grail gravel bike first-ride review

[MichaelB]

OK, not standard, but certainly no something that can't be worked around. I'd even bet that Canyon already have an alternative tooled and ready to go. Maybe not.

The way the bike is set up in that review, there isn't much seat/bar drop, but then again, like the Spesh Headshock, it may actually work OK, even if it looks as munted as RS505 levers.

Either way, it's not a bike that I'd buy anyway

[fat and old]

Meanwhile, Van Schip runs 32cm vintage Japanese touring handlebars

(From Bike Radar)

Those are the ones I mentioned earlier.

And I think that the Domane has front “suspension” of sorts and rim brakes.

[djw47]

Does anyone actually spend a significant fraction of their ride on the tops? I am always either on the hoods or the drops.

If you're climbing for any length of time on a steady gradient and don't need to change gears, then the top bars are much more comfortable imho.

[Nate]

awful looking thing - but i get it...

I just built up a RAAM style bike (sadly not riding this year) --> Focus paralane

I went the Ritchey Comp Streem II's - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKufLyfFQXw
bargain at $50

Then added some gel pads on the top: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fLx9Qzbg_4&t=1s
I previously did a single layer of extra bar tape - not wrapped - across the top of the bar & 3.2mm over the top

End result?
Fastest lounge chair on 2 wheels - the comfort is incredible.

[MichaelB]

I went the Ritchey Comp Streem II's - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKufLyfFQXw
bargain at $50

Bars look nice, but don't like the 'ergo' drops. Bugger