Full suspension "road"bike?

Would you consider a full suspension drop 'bar roadbike?

Yes.
9
16%
No.
32
58%
Unsure.
2
4%
Too early to tell. Depends who else gets one.
1
2%
I don't ride dirt.
0
No votes
I don't ride bicycles.
1
2%
I just don't about everything.
0
No votes
Anchovies.
10
18%
 
Total votes: 55
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Marx
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Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Marx » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:05 pm

Image

OK, its a gravel bike, but it's very much a road bike too.
Niner's MCR (Magic Carpet Ride) shown at this weekend's Sea Otter.
Carbon framed, coming 2019.
Would you?
Discuss if you like...
-----------------------
A bike and a place to ride.

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Tequestra
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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Tequestra » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:53 pm

Didn't I pick the wrong answer! The drop bars might need to be nice and wide to handle around corners especially under brakes, but I have experienced what it feels like to ride at 60km/h without suspension on last Christmas Day, and I have come appreciate the momentum of a heavy bike at high speed, so that is why I don't mind the added ballast. For racing, I would have voted 'No'.
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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby g-boaf » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:55 pm

Tequestra wrote:Didn't I pick the wrong answer! The drop bars might need to be nice and wide to handle around corners especially under brakes, but I have experienced what it feels like to ride at 60km/h without suspension on last Christmas Day, and I have come appreciate the momentum of a heavy bike at high speed, so that is why I don't mind the added ballast. For racing, I would have voted 'No'.


I chose "I don't ride bikes" just for stupid factor.

I don't ride on gravel tracks that would need this kind of bike anyhow. It's just overkill. My road bikes are all fine for the kind of riding I do.

Having a very light road bike also helps a bit going overseas with the weight of luggage. :idea:

My own bikes downhill are comfortable enough and very steady (one is just over 6kg, the other closer to 7kg), but they don't see the kind of gravel tracks that would need this.

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Thoglette
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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Thoglette » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:09 pm

Only if fitted with airless tyres and shaft drive. All essential on a road (or gravel) bike.
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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Uncle Just » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:59 pm

I like it provided it's not too heavy. Would have been great descending the steep rutted gravel on Mt Bride track last week. My road bike with 35c tyres but only standard reach brakes was woefully inadequate for the task.

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby RonK » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:13 pm

I am a gravel rider, but no I still don’t want one.
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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Duck! » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:15 pm

Looks like a 15-year-old XC MTB with drop bars....
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby MichaelB » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:06 pm

Anchovies FTW !!
:lol:

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby lard » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:00 pm

I reckon if I put slicks and drops on my 29er anthem it'd look and ride just like that.

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Jmuzz » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:47 pm

More compliance is good, but I think a lot more can be done with composite flex before resorting to suspension.

As materials get better they can flex more and also take bigger hits without damage.
So it is good for the industry to be forced to adapt without shocks and sliding parts, build the flex into frame and wheels, seatpost and bars.

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby bychosis » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:52 pm

Jmuzz wrote:More compliance is good, but I think a lot more can be done with composite flex before resorting to suspension.

As materials get better they can flex more and also take bigger hits without damage.
So it is good for the industry to be forced to adapt without shocks and sliding parts, build the flex into frame and wheels, seatpost and bars.

Yup. If you are riding somewhere roughnenough to need suspension there is a range of bikes available to suit without the compromise of skinny tyres.
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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Duck! » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:16 pm

Jmuzz wrote:As materials get better they can flex more and also take bigger hits without damage.

In what context do you define "better"? Better at what? "Better" is an extremely subjective term, highly dependent on a considerable range of inherent properties of varios materials. Finding the best (the epitome of "better") balance of properties is the ultimate compromise.

Materials that offer a relatively high level of large bump compliance through flex will lack the stiffness for efficient power transfer or even, if pushed too far, good handling. Other materials optimised for efficient power transfer and sharp handling will trade off bump compliance.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Duck! » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:17 pm

bychosis wrote:Yup. If you are riding somewhere roughnenough to need suspension there is a range of bikes available to suit without the compromise of skinny tyres.

Yep, they're called Mountain Bikes.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby trailgumby » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:19 pm

Not a fan of that seatpost angle. At all. Would bugger my knees and lower back. Otherwise I don't mind the idea. It might help close the gap between mountain bikes and fully rigid "gravel" bikes.

At the moment where the two types of bikes are allowed together in timed events, I am hearing credible reports the mountain bikes are far quicker, especially where there is any extended descending involved. :P

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby find_bruce » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:24 am

Thoglette wrote:Only if fitted with airless tyres and shaft drive. All essential on a road (or gravel) bike.

If it doesn't have L cranks and a funky saddle, I'm not buying

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby ironhanglider » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:22 pm

trailgumby wrote:Not a fan of that seatpost angle. At all. Would bugger my knees and lower back. Otherwise I don't mind the idea. It might help close the gap between mountain bikes and fully rigid "gravel" bikes.

At the moment where the two types of bikes are allowed together in timed events, I am hearing credible reports the mountain bikes are far quicker, especially where there is any extended descending involved. :P


Whilst the seatpost angle is laid back, the tube aims at a point in front of the BB, so it is probably not as bad as it looks, at least for smaller riders...

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby human909 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:04 am

Duck! wrote:
Jmuzz wrote:As materials get better they can flex more and also take bigger hits without damage.

In what context do you define "better"? Better at what? "Better" is an extremely subjective term, highly dependent on a considerable range of inherent properties of varios materials. Finding the best (the epitome of "better") balance of properties is the ultimate compromise.

Materials that offer a relatively high level of large bump compliance through flex will lack the stiffness for efficient power transfer or even, if pushed too far, good handling. Other materials optimised for efficient power transfer and sharp handling will trade off bump compliance.


Exactly. Looks like a solution looking for a problem. (Or a manufacturer looking for a market!)

With the possible exception of the most impressive downhill bikes, the best suspension you have is your legs and arms. They have far more travel and can be quickly and easily engaged and disengaged.

I'm honestly not sure what the bike picture is good for. The tyres seem too narrow to manage appropriately on tracks where suspension is most often desired.

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby bychosis » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:14 am

human909 wrote:I'm honestly not sure what the bike picture is good for. The tyres seem too narrow to manage appropriately on tracks where suspension is most often desired.

This. One of the reasons for fat tyres on mountain bikes is to absorb some of the bump so you don’t smash your rims.
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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby baabaa » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:12 am

bychosis wrote:
human909 wrote:I'm honestly not sure what the bike picture is good for. The tyres seem too narrow to manage appropriately on tracks where suspension is most often desired.

This. One of the reasons for fat tyres on mountain bikes is to absorb some of the bump so you don’t smash your rims.


Nah, this is more a bike packing mountain bike.
It is very hard to find a frame bag of any volume/ size with mountain bike geo.While a large seatpost bag with a handle bar bag combo work for short runs, the inside frame one are really needed for multi-day rides away from towns and food supply.
Anyone who has tried lugging a "load" with wide tyres will get this niner sort of set up as it allows you to get some sort of narrow tyre speed up on descent gravel without killing yourself pushing lots of rubber and then unlock the suspension and go for the float that would get with wide rubber on tricky bits when you do go slow. While most people who bikepack do go fly weight soft 'n fluffy camping stuff once you chuck in 6 or so cans of beans in the bottom of a frame bag you really don't want the rear wheel to bottom out.
Anyway, ask yourself....How many ks on gravel do you think you can ride with a load and not end up riding on the saddle the whole time? Then...try it.
My call is that while this is a prototype this sort of set up will be popular with the longer ride crowd as it is a good option that fits a need that 27.5 kinda helped fix but is still open.

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby human909 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:39 am

Maybe its because I don't get your concept of 'bike packing' but I couldn't really make head or tail of that. Also not that note that speed in this context is not particularly influenced by tyre width is more about tread and inflation levels. The tyres on that bike would make a fantasticly comfortable ride minor roughness but would largely be useless on terrain where you would want suspension.

baabaa wrote:Anyway, ask yourself....How many ks on gravel do you think you can ride with a load and not end up riding on the saddle the whole time? Then...try it.

Um. But why do you need suspension for gravel?

Corrugations are the annoying but I don't find regular bike suspension particularly effective at smoothing out bumps of that frequency. Fat tyres and a sprung seat would be much better. But suspension seating is hardly cool in the cycling world. :roll:

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Neddysmith » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:03 am

I can definitely see the value in this bike, but then again it depends on the types of trails and tracks and paths that you ride the most, if you mainly ride road then probably not the bike for you, if you mainly ride single track and depending on quality of track, probably not the bike for you, if you ride smoother gravel trails and roads, then i can certainly see this as improving the quality of your ride over that terrain.

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Nate » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:08 pm

28mm tyres & compliance in materials...
Thick handlebar tape too

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:09 pm

Duck! wrote:
Jmuzz wrote:As materials get better they can flex more and also take bigger hits without damage.

In what context do you define "better"? Better at what? "Better" is an extremely subjective term, highly dependent on a considerable range of inherent properties of varios materials. Finding the best (the epitome of "better") balance of properties is the ultimate compromise.


Better at providing flex where flex is wanted without cracking. Better at providing that flex without converting to heat which is lost energy.
Better at smacking a pothole or concrete offset without cracking.

Very desirable properties in the top end bikes, they spend considerable effort using different types and alignments of carbon to get the properties they want.

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby human909 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:26 pm

Jmuzz wrote:Better at providing flex where flex is wanted without cracking.

Where is flex wanted? The last decade or so chasing stiffness has been all the rage.

Jmuzz wrote:Better at providing that flex without converting to heat which is lost energy.

Hasn't the last decade or so been promoting the dampening effects of a frame. (AKA energy absorbing)

It sounds like you are promoting a return to metallic frames.

Jmuzz wrote:Better at smacking a pothole or concrete offset without cracking.


Um.. Yep....


No really I'm not trying to start a carbon/steel/alloy debate. But your list of characteristics there are somewhat contradictory.

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Re: Full suspension "road"bike?

Postby Calvin27 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:43 pm

Having built and ridden a monstercross I'd say no. Hardtail is plenty enough and if you are hammering hard enough to need rear cush, then you do not want to be on the drops.
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