Bicycle transport as everyday transport

[Scintilla]

The advent of e-bikes, combined with cargo-bike designs really opens up bicycles to replace the SUV. Urban Arrow is revolutionising this even further.


https://translate.google.com.au/transla ... ailer.html

[find_bruce]

Interesting setup, shame it is currently illegal in Australia - person in a trailer cannot be older than 10 - see road rule 257

[Scintilla]

Yes. Though actually I was posting this more as a strategy for those who need to carry gear, tools, and other items about. Shopping, trade and commercial workers....... all those who say "try carrying tools and work equipment to work or going shopping on a bicycle". Young kids (under 10) can also be transported in/on a trailer, and this is what most people claim as one impossibility of substituting a bicycle. Kids over 10 can usually ride their own bikes, or ride stoker on a tandem.

For all of this the trailer is perfectly legal and useful. Even without the trailer, the cargo-bike is eminently suited to deliveries, carrying shopping, AND transporting the kids.

[Tequestra]

What a nice surprise on a stormy Sunday afternoon, Scintilla. Your thread is quite aligned with my own current ideas, and the photo of the black ensemble with the single-wheel trailer is also very much like the design I've been mucking around with since 2001. I have a photo already online but it is unloaded and not the most illustrative of the concept when fully-laden:



With 25kg on the front rack, 40kg on the back rack, plus 10l of water, and another 25kg on the trailer, it is not beyond practical (barely) reason to load 100kg on a plain old ten-speed with a single-wheel trailer. I much prefer a single-wheel trailer for rough roads so I can point my front wheel through the gaps between potholes and know that the two wheels behind will follow that same path. The thought of a two-wheel trailer, especially unsprung, hitting a pothole on one wheel down a hill frightens the bejesus out of my gyroscopic understanding, so much that I have never tried it before, and would not know what a trike or a two-wheel trailer handles like on rough roads with potholes.

That covers the overall topology: bike (2 wheels) plus trailer (1 wheel) makes three wheels inline. The other part of your thread concerns the future; electric assistance. There is also the question of legality. I believe that 750mm is the width limit of a bicycle in Western Australia, which brings to mind the idea of an e-tandem for mum and dad in indian-file with two kids in the trailer, side by side - 375mm each.

I can see an interim solution to legalities where more powerful electric bikes, over 250w can easily include the required 12v lights, horn that qualify for registration as a registered electric moped for licensed operators. 36v or 48v to 12v stepdown transformers are selling for around A$40 inc. shipping on AliExpress, so all the electrics that make a 50cc petrol moped road legal can be easily wired into an electric bike when it already has the battery. A 48v 1000w battery + motor is plenty of horsepower (1.25hp) for getting around the city at up to 50-60km/h if you have pedals and good lungs.

Thank you for such an innovative subject for a thread. It is exactly what I like to dream about. Happy Sunday.

[cycles gitane]

Yes. Though actually I was posting this more as a strategy for those who need to carry gear, tools, and other items about. Shopping, trade and commercial workers....... all those who say "try carrying tools and work equipment to work or going shopping on a bicycle". snip

As this bike, used by a garden maintenance man in Kew, Victoria.

[/url]work bike by the bikes are in the shed on Flickr

[march83]

the single-wheel trailer

How stable is your setup? I'm interested in something similar so I can do casual trips to the grocery store, not having to take the car...

[human909]

How stable is your setup? I'm interested in something similar so I can do casual trips to the grocery store, not having to take the car...

Each to their own. But maybe the alternative is to rethink your approach to grocery store shopping. You don't need to have to take the car, nor do you need a bicycle trailer. Billions of people manage their grocery shopping without cars.

(While my comments might be seen as rude. It is just meant to highlight how embeded car culture is in Australia. Car habits are hard to drop even for cycling enthusiasts.

[Duck!]

Each to their own. But maybe the alternative is to rethink your approach to grocery store shopping. You don't need to have to take the car, nor do you need a bicycle trailer. Billions of people manage their grocery shopping without cars.

Indeed. I lived without a car for quite some years, not deciding to get my licence until in my mid-30s. I have a large backpack that was used for other stuff before I moved out on my own, and quickly learned that its capacity is about the same as the carry baskets found in all supermarkets, which made it easy to work out how much stuff I could buy at any single outing - if it didn't fit in the basket, it wasn't going to fit in the pack either!. With several supermarkets less than 2km from home, it's not an outrageous proposition to carry that weight on my back for the short ride.

With a bit of thought for what I actually need, I can do a single weekly shop with the bike & backpack. It would still be entirely possible to shop for a family in this way, but would need more frequent trips.

[piledhigher]

Each to their own. But maybe the alternative is to rethink your approach to grocery store shopping. You don't need to have to take the car, nor do you need a bicycle trailer. Billions of people manage their grocery shopping without cars.

Indeed. I lived without a car for quite some years, not deciding to get my licence until in my mid-30s. I have a large backpack that was used for other stuff before I moved out on my own, and quickly learned that its capacity is about the same as the carry baskets found in all supermarkets, which made it easy to work out how much stuff I could buy at any single outing - if it didn't fit in the basket, it wasn't going to fit in the pack either!. With several supermarkets less than 2km from home, it's not an outrageous proposition to carry that weight on my back for the short ride.

With a bit of thought for what I actually need, I can do a single weekly shop with the bike & backpack. It would still be entirely possible to shop for a family in this way, but would need more frequent trips.

Sadly I've got slacker as the family has got bigger, when it was just me, Vic market shopping at lunchtime once a week got carried 12kms home. Then with 2 some of that and some local supermarket stops on the way home using the one basket rule. Now with three usually a car based trip to the supermarket once a week with little bike top ups. I still stop on my commutes at the local bottleo for beer and wines, so there is that!

[march83]

How stable is your setup? I'm interested in something similar so I can do casual trips to the grocery store, not having to take the car...

Each to their own. But maybe the alternative is to rethink your approach to grocery store shopping. You don't need to have to take the car, nor do you need a bicycle trailer. Billions of people manage their grocery shopping without cars.

(While my comments might be seen as rude. It is just meant to highlight how embeded car culture is in Australia. Car habits are hard to drop even for cycling enthusiasts.

That's my whole point here. I don't drive to work, I ride the 45km or I catch the train. Nor does my partner (also train). She does ~3 small shops during the week, walking to the shops near her work and carrying groceries home with her. I only drive the car 1 day a week and that's on the weekend, the day we do a grocery shop for bulk, heavy items that would be too large and inconvenient to buy 3 times a week, or for things that must be fresh for the week ahead, or to pick up large deliveries from the post office.

So, with an already "re-thought" approach to the groceries I still have 1 trip a week that requires a car, but if I had a trailer I could just do it with my bike...

So the question remains - how stable is that trailer and what would it cost to get one?

[human909]

That's my whole point here. I don't drive to work, I ride the 45km or I catch the train. Nor does my partner (also train). She does ~3 small shops during the week, walking to the shops near her work and carrying groceries home with her. I only drive the car 1 day a week and that's on the weekend, the day we do a grocery shop for bulk, heavy items that would be too large and inconvenient to buy 3 times a week, or for things that must be fresh for the week ahead, or to pick up large deliveries from the post office.

So, with an already "re-thought" approach to the groceries I still have 1 trip a week that requires a car, but if I had a trailer I could just do it with my bike...

That is impressive and definitely significant non reliance on the car.

Definitely better than me at the moment as I don't have the fortitude to regularly ride the long distance to my current work location. You beat me at present for non car reliance.

I guess just different grocery needs personally I rarely if ever need to pick up bulky items grocery shopping. Toilet paper or cases of beer still just go in my Crumpler.

So the question remains - how stable is that trailer and what would it cost to get one?

I can't really answer that but some can be relatively inexpensive:

https://www.bicyclestore.com.au/urbanve ... ailer.html

[zebee]

I used to do the shopping once a week using just panniers. Now I'm shopping for two I use the trike and trailer. Much depends on how many bulky packages you get, we don't buy cereal or other large packages for example. So it's mostly fresh food and bread and milk. Usually down to the Addison Rd markets (Where car parking is impossible and motorcycle parking almost impossible but bicycle parking is easy) then via Coles on the way home, top up on the way home from work if needed.

The trike/trailer combo is even nicer now the trike is an e-trike but I did similar work towing the trailer with a 2 wheeler before I got the trike.

Trike and trailer can carry most things, up to and including small bookshelves and lumber 2m long or less. Even small tree in large pot given enough rope.

I've been using pedal (and now pedal assist) power for years as my main transport. Things that are too big or too far away for the bicycle I do on the motorcycle, but it hardly gets out these days. If I really must have 4 wheels then it's taxi or go-get car share. Usually taxi because most of the must-have-car things are medical appointments for my mother and parking is expensive or too far for her to walk or both for most of those.

For medical appointments close by she goes on her electric trike and I walk or ride a bike alongside her.

I really think the main barriers are psychological. I haven't owned a car for many many years, I went motorcycle only when my car died and pretty soon found I could do everything I needed on 2 wheels. Moving to pedal power wan't much more of a leap.

Now my first thought is always to do it via bicycle and I only haul out the motorcycle or the taxi app if I really can't find a way to do it on the pushie.

[human909]

I really think the main barriers are psychological.

I agree with this for many locations.

That said if you live in a residential or rural area that has been designed completely around car ownership then there can be significant barriers. (My solution to this is simply don't make the choice to live in such an area if you want to be independent of a car.) It is very sad we are continuing to build unsustainable residential developments. Urban zoning, street layout (cul-de-sacs) and density are very hard to change and are big impediments to cycling when they are designed around cars.

Probably less than 50% of my peers own cars. I have friends who are 40 who have never owned a car.

I've owned a car for most of my life though I did spend a year or so completely carless. I try to frame my life such that the vast majority of my regular transport is on my bike. For the last year and a bit my job has been an impediment to this, but that is something I mean to change. My physical health and mental health is much better out of a car.

[find_bruce]

Yes. Though actually I was posting this more as a strategy for those who need to carry gear, tools, and other items about. Shopping, trade and commercial workers....... all those who say "try carrying tools and work equipment to work or going shopping on a bicycle". Young kids (under 10) can also be transported in/on a trailer, and this is what most people claim as one impossibility of substituting a bicycle. Kids over 10 can usually ride their own bikes, or ride stoker on a tandem.

For all of this the trailer is perfectly legal and useful. Even without the trailer, the cargo-bike is eminently suited to deliveries, carrying shopping, AND transporting the kids.

Sorry I was intending to rubbish the stupid law (an adult can sit in the front but not the trailer), not the excellent bike & trailer combo.

I have toyed with the idea of a cargo bike for years but could never justify the price & space. A box trailer using a bob type attachment is an excellent idea. Question is whether I look at the trailer or the small mods it would take to make the weehoo into a cargo hauler.

[march83]

That said if you live in a residential or rural area that has been designed completely around car ownership then there can be significant barriers. (My solution to this is simply don't make the choice to live in such an area if you want to be independent of a car.) It is very sad we are continuing to build unsustainable residential developments. Urban zoning, street layout (cul-de-sacs) and density are very hard to change and are big impediments to cycling when they are designed around cars.

I agree with this entirely. I'm quietly convinced that new suburbs are designed specifically for Colesworth to build a shopping hub that everyone needs to drive to - imagine if you could walk to the local shops? You might not buy so much junk if you had to carry it home The fact that the whole system keeps people buying cars and consuming to healthy levels is just a kicker.

While my house is in a lovely spot with some conveniences, it's absolutely terrible for things like a village lifestyle, daily shopping, etc. I regret choosing this location for this reason alone, but at the time it wasn't even a part of my thought process - cars were just the way of life. It is however close to a train station, but by the time you line up an hourly train, catch it 1 stop down the line to get to the nearest large shops, do your shopping, and catch the hourly train back it's a long day for a few groceries. Bike makes a lot more sense, but we have young kids so that takes the social aspect out if it. Car works even better but I want to find alternatives. Most importantly, I want to teach my kids good habits.

The next house will be chosen with conveniences like walking to and from shops and a village as a high priority.

[human909]

In contrast my 'house' is terrible by some people's metrics. It is small, tiny yard, near a busy road.....

Except look past the features of the house and you grocery within 10mins walk or 3mins ride. Schools within a short ride (probably primary and secondary schools with the highest rate of cycling in the country). Great, healthy and reasonably priced restaurants and takeaway within walking riding distance. Like I said no backyard, but there are several massive public parks within walking distance. Oh and plenty of public transport if that suits...

The big difference is suburbs like mine were designed BEFORE cars.

I don't have children but my sister lives nearby with a few. One car family which is only occasionally used. Her bike can carry two children.

[twowheels]

the single-wheel trailer

How stable is your setup? I'm interested in something similar so I can do casual trips to the grocery store, not having to take the car...

I've toyed around with bike trailers a bit. With respect to stability attachment close to the rear axle was better. I realised this most when I put together a sprung device so my kelpie could run along next to my rear wheel.
My preference though is a long tail cargo bike I made, (similar to cycles gitanes photo) . Front is a 26" mtn bike, rear is rear triangle of a 20" full susp mtn bike. Joined at rear drop outs/ BB spindle. Load is carried between the axles, rides just like a single bike. Easy, cheap, reliable.

[RobertL]

Each to their own. But maybe the alternative is to rethink your approach to grocery store shopping. You don't need to have to take the car, nor do you need a bicycle trailer. Billions of people manage their grocery shopping without cars.

Indeed. I lived without a car for quite some years, not deciding to get my licence until in my mid-30s. I have a large backpack that was used for other stuff before I moved out on my own, and quickly learned that its capacity is about the same as the carry baskets found in all supermarkets, which made it easy to work out how much stuff I could buy at any single outing - if it didn't fit in the basket, it wasn't going to fit in the pack either!. With several supermarkets less than 2km from home, it's not an outrageous proposition to carry that weight on my back for the short ride.

With a bit of thought for what I actually need, I can do a single weekly shop with the bike & backpack. It would still be entirely possible to shop for a family in this way, but would need more frequent trips.

I read an article in the business pages of the paper years ago, talking about people who do one large weekly shopping trip vs people who do smaller, more frequent shopping trips.

It said that, in the trade, people who do the smaller shopping trips are known as "two-baggers" - because that's what they can carry.

[zebee]

While my house is in a lovely spot with some conveniences, it's absolutely terrible for things like a village lifestyle, daily shopping, etc. I regret choosing this location for this reason alone, but at the time it wasn't even a part of my thought process - cars were just the way of life. It is however close to a train station, but by the time you line up an hourly train, catch it 1 stop down the line to get to the nearest large shops, do your shopping, and catch the hourly train back it's a long day for a few groceries. Bike makes a lot more sense, but we have young kids so that takes the social aspect out if it. Car works even better but I want to find alternatives. Most importantly, I want to teach my kids good habits.

No way to ride a bike to the shops? One train stop can be a long way or not that much.

The route may not be obvious, and hills are a pain. Councils are doing more to add bike paths near train tracks, there may be more possibilities than you realise. When I first started riding in Sydney I had no idea that the standard car route was not the best way on a bike, but various people showed me the bike-friendly ways.

If the kids are young enough for a trailer and there are two of you so you can have one trailer with kids and one with shopping... Consider e-bikes too, as kids aren't light. I see e-bikes with kid trailers more often now. A conversion kit is fairly easy to get hold of.

[donnaeastman]

Wow this is awesome! Been using bike as my transportation since 2012. Aside from bike is a health friendly, it can also reduce the damage in nature.

[fat and old]

Carrying capacity isn't always the issue for tradies etc. Time is the killer for me. I used the bike exclusively almost for 3 years. meetings? No probs. Surveying the jobs? Usually easy enough, although I was looking at a flat bar with panniers to carry the tapes, lappys, paint etc as it was a bit heavy on the back. Setting the boys up in the morning meant an earlier start though if they were hitting a job sight unseen, and also meant riding straight to the job which led to issues getting them motivated prestart. But with some forethought it could be done.

Then things changed, and I found myself needing to get from one end of Melbourne to another quicker than a bike would let me. Sure in the inner circle I'd have no issues as I was as fast as the car, but from Dandenong to Lilydale, or Preston to Werribee wasn't happening with any speed. And I still had to get back to the office at the end of the day and close jobs off (this can only be done on the computer at work, and usually means a quick debrief of that particular crew). Then get another 18km home. So now it's a lot less.

OHS on site is another issue. I'm lucky in that my clients got used to me (probably thought I was weird enough not to mess with ) but I never did show up to a rail job or a site visit to a large infrastructure job. I would have either had to carry a change, work boots, hat etc or worn it on the bike.

I must admit to looking seriously at e-bikes as a solution.

[Tequestra]

the single-wheel trailer

How stable is your setup? I'm interested in something similar so I can do casual trips to the grocery store, not having to take the car...

Happy Friday March83. Sorry for the delayed reply. I've been chasing around on gumtree all week and only logged in a moment ago.

In a word, VERY unstable. The trailer I bought in 2001 is designed to strap a surfboard to and store a wetsuit in the pouch, and the main 'keel' or beam is actually two lengths that fold the entire trailer in half for storage or medivac purposes, so it is not anywhere near rigid enough to ship a toddler or large household pet that barks. About 25kg, with half of the weight in a plastic tub in front of the bag, because that end was most aligned with the frame of the bike.
It was still very unstable laterally, because of the weakness in the hitch itself, designed for 5-10kg load, not 25.

It was designed to attach to the seat-post, but I wanted the extra length behind the back wheel for storage, as well as the rear rack on the bike, so I fitted some forks of a 27" ladies' clamped onto the steel back rack, and dropped the trailer's hitch onto the stem of those forks, which was much more unstable than if you preferred to bolt such a trailer onto the seatpost. I had to use shims around the stem because it is smaller diameter than the presumed seatpost.

I have seen trailers attached to rear axles (or why not braced at rear stays too?) with more horizontal forks, but how stable such would be if single-wheel I would not think very much, because of the *extra stress it must put on the mechanics without that extra leverage that the seatpost hitch position offers, being twice the distance from the road surface.

* maybe someone woith a mig welder could do a better stronger mounting than my meccano style of backyard budget. The leverage and lower CoG offered by a proper towbar type of thing directly behind the rear tyre is better for a two-wheel trailer but for a single wheel, it is that lateral wobble which all left to that hitch to keep the whole contraption from falling over when you park it with 40kg of groceries. Imagine the veritable landslide on CCTV in your mind as the trailer starts to lean, and then spill over, then the spring in the hitch starts the bike falling behind the inertia in the trailer, and the front wheel lifts and turns in, then CRASH!

I think a single wheel trailer really needs a fairly highly mounted, (ie. seatpost), hitch, AND a wide stand, or ideally a centre stand. It is a definite disadvantage for stability to have only a single wheel on the trailer, but it is not hard to get used to and the faster you go, the less it matters.

[Scintilla]

[commute]

I read an article in the business pages of the paper years ago, talking about people who do one large weekly shopping trip vs people who do smaller, more frequent shopping trips.

It said that, in the trade, people who do the smaller shopping trips are known as "two-baggers" - because that's what they can carry.

My local shopping centre (coles, Woolies, Aldi + loads of generic chain stores) is undergoing renovations. I guess they don't want to encourage two baggers as they have not put in any bike parking what so ever.
Annoying as it is an old suburb with a grid street layout, could be great for cycling.

I wonder why the council or state government can't force them to provide bike parking as part of their planning approval.

[Thoglette]

I wonder why the council or state government can't force them to provide bike parking as part of their planning approval.

I'm surprised they could get planning approval without bike parking. Probably better that they didn't as it is likely to be placed in the sun/rain in an inconvenient location. Much better to just park in front of the doors out of the rain, if just out of the way.

And be ready to do a shock horror photo op with a local councilor & local rag if/when the rent-a-thugs get stroppy. Fortunately my local shop owners recognise me and that I'm running money through their tills several times a week, each and every week.

Ps - generally, "two baggers" (and bus/train users) are better for local shops than car bays. That is a long topic for another thread but the findings are consistent world wide.